What's wrong with diving?

[astabooty]

ya i know people have discussed it before, ******** off.

i really dont get why people think it is so disgraceful?

it is up to the ref to not be fooled and to show a yellow when it is blatant.

if a player can get away with it, let him. it is part of the game.

[jayro75]

ya i know people have discussed it before, ******** off.

i really dont get why people think it is so disgraceful?

it is up to the ref to not be fooled and to show a yellow when it is blatant.

if a player can get away with it, let him. it is part of the game.

Wow I should rep you for having a set of balls. Whats wrong with diving is the same as whats wrong with pass interference in American Football. It's thrying to get an unfair advantage by doing something against the rules of the game. Also known as cheating.

[um_chili]

Two things:

Simulation is "wrong" in the sense that it violates the rules of the game, like any other breach of those rules. It's an attempt to gain an unfair advantage by playing outside the legitimate parameters of the game--cheating, simply put. I'd say the same of throwing elbows or other violent play. One feature that distinguishes diving from other kinds of misconduct, though, is that it involves an element of intent that is hard to measure--especially given that refs are often far from a play or have a bad angle, it's not as simple as just saying "refs should enforce it." Many of the times when I've seen yellows given for diving the ref has been wrong, and there was contact; most dives I've seen have gone uncarded.

Another valence this issue has is cultural. In some cultures--English and Scottish, especially--the notion of diving is generally regarded as a moral wrong, not just another breach of the rules, because it is unsportsmanlike. Other cultures--Italy, Portugal, South America--have more of a "do it if you can get away with it" approach that rewards or even encourages this kind of gamesmanship. Thus the outrage that you see from the English/Scottish regarding diving isn't just about its illegality but also has a moral/aesthetic dimension. This isn't to say that diving is entirely unheard of in these cultures. Last year Graham Poll made a public statement about diving in the EPL in which he identified ManU and England player Gary Neville as one of the main culprits. And the out and out master of the penalty box dive has to be, in my view, Germany's Juergen Klinsmann.

Personally, I lie somewhere in between the latter two views. I think diving is lame and that players would be better off not to dive. Both fans and the game would benefit as well. To some extent, of course, diving is its own punishment. I follow Portuguese football pretty closely and have found that when individual players or teams get reputations as divers (which is not uncommon), refs are unlikely to give them any calls, which seems like a fair result to me and might help to deter the practice by rendering it counterproductive. I can't say, though, that I think diving is the execrable moral outrage that some seem to think it is, and I think there's a lot of overreacting to diving as well (exaggeration leading to exaggeration, as it were).

[gomez]

Nothing would be wrong with diving if we had refs with the balls to break out the cards when it happens.

I won't try and take this off topic as we have our own thread astabooty, but is this Deco related? ;)

Carry on.

[fatdanny99]

My theory is this. If you get away with cheating, you should play on. If you are caught, you pay the price.

[bungadiri]

ya i know people have discussed it before, ******** off.

i really dont get why people think it is so disgraceful?

it is up to the ref to not be fooled and to show a yellow when it is blatant.

if a player can get away with it, let him. it is part of the game.
I don't know about disgraceful but it sure as hell has nothing to do with playing soccer well. It has nothing to do with skills and everything to do with gaming the system.

Plus it's boring. What's really infuriating about watching somebody of Totti's quality go down like a crack whore every time a defender looks at him cross-eyed is he's capable of delivering something vastly better in virtually every situation he chooses to do so. Instead he takes the easy way out and does something any talentless mook in shorts can do just as well.

[JoseP]

ya i know people have discussed it before, ******** off.

i really dont get why people think it is so disgraceful?

it is up to the ref to not be fooled and to show a yellow when it is blatant.

if a player can get away with it, let him. it is part of the game.

Have you ever played the game against somebody who did that to you? I have and that player always payed a price and it wasn't from the ref.

[guado]

Nothing would be wrong with diving if we had refs with the balls to break out the cards when it happens.

I won't try and take this off topic as we have our own thread astabooty, but is this Deco related? ;)

Carry on.

well the thing is, you can't always tell. sometimes they fall and its a clean tackle. sometimes they dive. so it's hard to tell. i mean would you liked to be carded after you were cleanly tackled in the box?

i don't care much if a player does it. but i've yelled at teammates who ruin good opportunities by diving or by attacking the ref afterward. often times, you can do more if you stay on your feet than diving. so i don't dive.

[The Potter]

One of the few things worse than diving is a player asking for another player to be shown a card there both a discgrace to the game. :mad:

[astabooty]

Wow I should rep you for having a set of balls. Whats wrong with diving is the same as whats wrong with pass interference in American Football. It's thrying to get an unfair advantage by doing something against the rules of the game. Also known as cheating.

every play in the NFL offensive linemen are holding, cb's are having illegal touching, etc. imo not as blatant as diving, but still going for an unfair advantage.

[silver bullet]

One of the few things worse than diving is a player asking for another player to be shown a card there both a discgrace to the game. :mad:

I agree. Every time I see that card waving gesture, I hope the ref shows a yellow for it: You want to see a card? Here you are!

On diving, yes, it's breaking the rules of the game and as such it's a foul just like a hand ball, etc.

[astabooty]

Have you ever played the game against somebody who did that to you? I have and that player always payed a price and it wasn't from the ref.


first i will reply to this post and then just a broad response.

well of course i have. its annoying when done to you, but my friends will dive and so will i? big deal. anyway, you saying they pay the price for diving, the reason you 1st learn to dive is to protect yourself.


now the broad response.

i was a bit extreme in my 1st post, but that was the point. obviously there are cultural differnces. i learned soccer from a culture that is ok with diving.

as for me blaming the refs, it is true that most of the time a player receives a card, it seems that there really was contact. that is my point tho, it is so hard for the ref to tell, that is why diving to tell. also why people hold jerseys,

now i only have 2 problems with diving:
1) players like figo who the majority of the time prefer to go down than to fight. when done to an extremity, it sucks. i will dive, but i will also be a man and pound and be pounded.
2) one thing i never grew to accept is someone laying on the ground feigning an injury. if i dive (or really get kicked/hit), i'll go down, maybe stay down for a couple of seconds/rub the wound, and get up. the guys on the ground faking just look like ************** to me.


and just fyi, rodman was my favorite basketball player ever. he did quit e a bit of acting himself.

[afgrijselijkheid]

My theory is this. If you get away with cheating, you should play on. If you are caught, you pay the price.


classic as roma response :rolleyes:

my theory is this: if you have to cheat, then you aren't good enough to be there in the first place - if you are good enough and cheat anyway, you are twice as bad

stop rolling around on the ground like a girl who's been shot when nobody touched you - everytime i see a punk bitch playacting some sort of death blow and he gets sent to the sidelines for a moment, i always hope his team gets scored on while he's waiting to come back in - i also think refs should make players who dive wait longer on the sideline before coming back in, that would stop that crap - i'm sick of seeing some little baby act like he's dying and delay the game, only to have him bounce off the stretcher as soon as he gets to the sideline and immediately ask permission to come back on

[astabooty]

I agree. Every time I see that card waving gesture, I hope the ref shows a yellow for it: You want to see a card? Here you are!

On diving, yes, it's breaking the rules of the game and as such it's a foul just like a hand ball, etc.


Ahhh the former only bothers me when it is someone I don't like requesting the card.

As for the diving, I agree that is just like every other foul, but I also think other forms of fouls are fine, it is just they are harder to get away with.

[BPBlueSox]

stop rolling around on the ground like a girl who's been shot when nobody touched you - everytime i see a punk bitch playacting some sort of death blow and he gets sent to the sidelines for a moment, i always hope his team gets scored on while he's waiting to come back in - i also think refs should make players who dive wait longer on the sideline before coming back in, that would stop that crap - i'm sick of seeing some little baby act like he's dying and delay the game, only to have him bounce off the stretcher as soon as he gets to the sideline and immediately ask permission to come back on

I think that pretty much sums it up right there.

[astabooty]

classic as roma response :rolleyes:

my theory is this: if you have to cheat, then you aren't good enough to be there in the first place - if you are good enough and cheat anyway, you are twice as bad

stop rolling around on the ground like a girl who's been shot when nobody touched you - everytime i see a punk bitch playacting some sort of death blow and he gets sent to the sidelines for a moment, i always hope his team gets scored on while he's waiting to come back in - i also think refs should make players who dive wait longer on the sideline before coming back in, that would stop that crap - i'm sick of seeing some little baby act like he's dying and delay the game, only to have him bounce off the stretcher as soon as he gets to the sideline and immediately ask permission to come back on

i ask you, are feigning an injury and diving two different things?
i say yes. a player can truly get fouled and embelish it to a card for the player who commited the foul.

i also ask you, would you have a problem with diving if the majority of the time they acted like they had a set instead of acting like bitches?

i just dont see how soccer players can CONTINUALLY act like bitches (no problem if it is rare and only in important times). it is one of the few things i dislike about soccer.

anecdote: back in my football days (american), someone knocked the ******** out of me, i popped up immediately, jogged to the sideline, and nearly collapsed.

[afgrijselijkheid]

i ask you, are feigning an injury and diving two different things?
i say yes. a player can truly get fouled and embelish it to a card for the player who commited the foul.

i also ask you, would you have a problem with diving if the majority of the time they acted like they had a set instead of acting like bitches?

i just dont see how soccer players can CONTINUALLY act like bitches (no problem if it is rare and only in important times). it is one of the few things i dislike about soccer.

anecdote: back in my football days (american), someone knocked the ******** out of me, i popped up immediately, jogged to the sideline, and nearly collapsed.


yes, faking an injury and diving are slightly different... hell, diving and embellishing are a little different - still, trying to trick the ref is cheating, and a particularly gutless form at that

[astabooty]

yes, faking an injury and diving are slightly different... hell, diving and embellishing are a little different - still, trying to trick the ref is cheating, and a particularly gutless form at that

guess it just comes down to opinion/culture. gosh, i cant recall the number of times we have doven in recreational (pick-up) indoor games alone, which happen to be on concrete.

[Lockjaw]

If it is a clear dive, then the player should be carded. It is not always easy to tell, but few refs do it anyway.

On a related topic, I think defenders are allowed to get away with far too much pulling, pushing & grabbing in the penalty area. Refs are reluctant to call those fouls & give PKs and consequently fewer goals are scored.

[astabooty]

If it is a clear dive, then the player should be carded. It is not always easy to tell, but few refs do it anyway.

On a related topic, I think defenders are allowed to get away with far too much pulling, pushing & grabbing in the penalty area. Refs are reluctant to call those fouls & give PKs and consequently fewer goals are scored.


I agree with both, but as long as they can get away with it, then it is part of the game imo.