Debate: Best Defender, Season 04/05

[JC7rox]

I've read enough posts on here to know that Rio is going to be a good majority choice, but I think that if anyone deserves defender of the year, if not player, for us, it should be Gabriel Heinze. Since his first game he was on, and has yet to tire. I've heard some people claim that he is tiring out. I don't see it. Maybe we should hook him up with one of those bars that Rio ate during the Liverpool match. His determination, those killer two-footed tackles, and the fact that almost every near-goal cleared from the line has been by Heinze. Let's discuss intelligently, shall we. My vote is for Heinze. Hell, all we need is a better CB partner for Rio and we'd be rock solid. Laters. :)

[Achtung]

Yeah, really its a tough call. Rio has been solid as a rock, more than repaying SAF's faith in him after his suspension, but Heinze has been an absolute revelation at a spot that's been tough for us the past couple of years. They're such different styles too, with Rio being speedy and nimble, while Heinze is just tough as nails and a fearsome tackler. They do what needs to be done at their respective positions. Really its a tough call, but at this point I'd say they're both incredibly vital. Can't pick one over the other myself.

[Teso Dos Bichos]

Heinze

[johno]

The real question is why don't we clone Heinze? that way Rio would have a partner who could win a header and make a tackle... we'd be on to something then... oh, and we'd still have a good left back.

[Soccerholic]

I've read enough posts on here to know that Rio is going to be a good majority choice.

Don't be so sure about that. I think Heinze has been United's best and most consistent defender this year. He is United's best purchase for the money in quite a while. (Perhaps you have to go all the way back to Ole to find a better deal in the transfer market.)

[sitati_kituyi]

Without Rio we've been shite. With him, we have the second best defence in the prem. He's not only our best defender but the best in Europe.

Rio, for sure.

[johno]

I would not go so far as to say best in all of Europe... one of the best for sure, but not the best... I think that on a good day, he, Terry, Nesta and Lucio are probably all even... with Nesta and Terry perhaps given a slight edge defensively while Rio and Lucio have a knack for keeping posession better.

[Soccerholic]

Without Rio we've been shite. With him, we have the second best defence in the prem. He's not only our best defender but the best in Europe.

Rio, for sure.
Don't forget that Heinze started playing about the same time Rio came back.

[sitati_kituyi]

Don't forget that Heinze started playing about the same time Rio came back.
True, but while Heinze has filled that left back spot like no one else for a long time, I think Rio has been that extra bit more important to us. How often do you see Rio dive in for a tackle and end up head over heels by just a simple dummy by a winger (what I think is Heinze's weakest point)?

The argument above probably goes against what the thread is about, ie best defender of the season, not who is the better player. Heinze and Rio have been United's best players this season, and it's quite clear that our defence has been much more to write home about than our attack this year.

It's definitely a tough call, Heinze's been brilliant as well. But Rio's been our best player this season for me FULLSTOP, with Heinze, Rooney, Giggs (on his good days), Keano and Ronaldo not far behind.

Oh, and Jonho, I agree totally that there are several players in Europe who on their day are as good as Rio defencively. But just watch Rio on a good day. Wins the ball with a perfect tackle, elegantly sidesteps the oncoming attacker and then drives forward on the ball before dispatching a nearly Beckham-esque diagonal or cross or playing the ball to Scholes or Keane... brilliant player.

[johno]

yeah... of all the defenders not named Lucio... Rio would be voted most likely to dribble striker... :D and I think one of the reasons I dislike Silvestre so much is that I think he tries too hard to play long balls and is never accurate while Rio is very accurate.

[sitati_kituyi]

yeah... of all the defenders not named Lucio... Rio would be voted most likely to dribble striker... :D and I think one of the reasons I dislike Silvestre so much is that I think he tries too hard to play long balls and is never accurate while Rio is very accurate.
The only thing that I don't like about Silvestre is it's so hard to see what's going through that (rather large) head of his. You see him pass the ball to the feet of a Milan striker and his face remains emotionless. One might say this is his proffessional nature, but... it just gets me on the edge of my seat. But next to Rio Silvestre has been great for most of the season. But unless Fergie sees Wes as the future of United's central defence, I'd like to see us get the partner for Rio in the middle. In Heinze and Gary Neville we have two of the best full backs in the league.

[Soccerholic]

Don't get me wrong, Sitati, it's close between the two. Rio is a brilliant defender and United are fortunate to have two defenders with the quality of Rio and Heinze. And perhaps Heinze is such an upgrade over everybody United has tried at left back since Irwin that it makes him seem even better than he is.

BTW, who voted for "Other," and would you mind explaining your vote?

[Dark Savante]

Without Rio we've been shite. With him, we have the second best defence in the prem. He's not only our best defender but the best in Europe.

Rio, for sure.
Nesta is by far the best defender of his generation. No contest whatsoever. He's almost flawless and is a couple of seasons off being in an all-time Milan xi(some would have no qualms putting him there already) :eek:

Rio is certainly up there with the others for 2nd best in Europe though:

Ayala
Chivu
Lucio
Terry
Campbell
Rio
Thuram & Cannavaro(maybe)


Are the rung down after Nesta. Personally I think they're all fantastic but Nesta is a step ahead of them all.

--

As to the question of best defender for us this term. I think it has to go to Rio by quite some way. Without him our backline is nothing...He actually holds the entire thing together and is one of the most essential players at the club, then again for £30m he'd better be!

Heinze makes a lot of mistakes and sells himself too easily to be considered 'the best' imo. His passing and crossing is highly erratic but he has more heart and steel then anyone in the backline and we desperately needed that. He recovers his position well and he reads the game like a CB because he was one. He's important but we would not capitulate without him, unlike Rio.

[johno]

Well... Nesta is great but face it... he's playing next to and under Maldini, its not hard to look good there.. I will also say that Nesta is not as good on the ball as Rio and that Rio might even be a better header of the ball. But all of that aside, Rio has the definite edge in the most important department... HAIR...

[Dark Savante]

Well... Nesta is great but face it... he's playing next to and under Maldini, its not hard to look good there.. I will also say that Nesta is not as good on the ball as Rio and that Rio might even be a better header of the ball. But all of that aside, Rio has the definite edge in the most important department... HAIR...
Nesta has been utterly fantastic for years. His Lazio days earnt him the move. I'd say he was evern better at Lazio (before Maldini) then he is at Milan. His positioning is just phenomenal - it's what stands him out from any other defender on the planet. His mistake can be counted on a hand for an entire season also. I haven't seen a CB that good since Rijkaard.

For dribbling and distrubution he's not really a touch on Lucio, Rio or Chivu(in particular) but he poo-poo's on all of them for the fundamentals of CB work. His positioning is even better then the slow and position-reliant Terry - and he's as fast as Rio if not faster. Quite a package... sans the hair of course :)

[johno]

ok... fine.. i believe you but I cant think that Rio would ever be nutmegged by Quinton Fortune... and Nesta was... so in terms of embarassing moments Nesta loses...

[Motterman]

I think Rio is one of the best defenders in Europe. Heinze is a half-step below Rio's class. Heinze tends to leave his feet too often attempting tackles. He's very effective when he wins the ball, he's left to get up and scramble back if he doesn't... plus, his crossing isn't as good as Gary Neville's. Rio isn't that strong offensively at getting on the end of headers, which keeps him, in my mind, from being classed as "THE best defender in Europe". Not too many holes in his game defensively though, and his distribution is superb.

[Forza Badger]

Nesta has been utterly fantastic for years. His Lazio days earnt him the move. I'd say he was evern better at Lazio (before Maldini) then he is at Milan. His positioning is just phenomenal - it's what stands him out from any other defender on the planet. His mistake can be counted on a hand for an entire season also. I haven't seen a CB that good since Rijkaard.

For dribbling and distrubution he's not really a touch on Lucio, Rio or Chivu(in particular) but he poo-poo's on all of them for the fundamentals of CB work. His positioning is even better then the slow and position-reliant Terry - and he's as fast as Rio if not faster. Quite a package... sans the hair of course :)

For the reasons above Nesta is my favorite player. :)

The Fortune thing was a minor slip, it happens to everyone. His overall performance during the match was excellent as always. Another interesting thing I read is that in the CL (prior to the ManU match anyway) Nesta was fouled more than he fouled others.

[Ronaldo07]

Heinze - i think hes the best left back in the PL at the minute, all he needs to learn is to put a decent ball in and he'll be sorted, everything else about him is top class.

[bigtoga]

Bruce Arena says that Rio is the best back in Europe so I vote for Rio

:D