Gold Cup 2005 - The Plight of the European players

[appoo]

I'm pretty muc dead set against having the Gold Cup this year and actually sending anything other than our U17 team becasue MLS is in-season and there's WC qaulifying going on also. But since we are having this I think this would be a GREAT oppurtunity to test out all those off-the-radar European players or the one's struggling at their clubs.

Peter Phillipakos - AEK
Robbie Russell - Rosenborg
Bobby Convey - Reading
Marcus Hahneman - Reading
Tim Howard - Manchester United
Jonathan Spector - Manchester United
Daniel Karbassiyoon - Arsenal
Jemal Johnson - Blackburn
Conor Casey - Mainz
Jay Demerit - Watford

All the European clubs would be in their off-season, and this would give these guys a GREAT chance to not only impress the USA staff, but get a head start on the pre-season by playing with USA through the summer. They can get to their Club camps in mid-season form and allow them to get a leg up on their competition.

From the USA standpoint it gives our Coaches a chance to identify talent we might be able to use during the latter part of qualifyinig when we won't be able to bring these guys into a random camp.

[Deuteriumoxide]

okay so there are ten guys, eight field players... we have to fill out the roster with somebody, but since you are against playing MLSers in season (which I am) who do we get to fill out the squad?

I think that if you bring in these ten guys and make them play with a bunch of kids/a-leaguers through a cometative tournement it will be detrimental to their development more than anything.

either we send an all scrub team or we at least try to send a full decent team.

[suppitty]

Maybe we could just give Tony Meola a few caps...or cruelly leave him on the edge of 100.

[XYZ1234]

This was discussed when the Gold Cup schedual came out and it should be noted that the preseason Euro camps are opened in early July so any Euro based players wont be losing out on time off but they will be missing some camp time with their clubs. I think the Euro seasons start earlier in 2005 since it's before the world cup.

When do CL and UEFA cup playoffs start, July I think?

I say just bring in a full Euro team with Donovan, Bease, Boca... with the off-the-radar euro players and a sprinkle of MLS guys. If there are club conflicts like cup playoffs(ins) then maybe some of those guys miss the GC but Donovan is the only one that I can see that happening to.

The schedual is so full that there's really no good way to get around the GC.

[appoo]

okay so there are ten guys, eight field players... we have to fill out the roster with somebody, but since you are against playing MLSers in season (which I am) who do we get to fill out the squad?

I think that if you bring in these ten guys and make them play with a bunch of kids/a-leaguers through a cometative tournement it will be detrimental to their development more than anything.

either we send an all scrub team or we at least try to send a full decent team.

I'd use the peripheral MLS players who would love to the chance to prove themselves at the international level and certain young player. No need to call up Zevagnin, Mathis, Eddie Johnson, Josh Wolff, Pope, or even Twellman or guys like that. But do call up the Brain Mullans, Eddie Gaven, Chad Marshall, Eskandarian...these aren't "star" players on their MLS clubs and they can afford to lose them for a few weeks and not worry about losing too much ground.

[appoo]

This was discussed when the Gold Cup schedual came out and it should be noted that the preseason Euro camps are opened in early July so any Euro based players wont be losing out on time off but they will be missing some camp time with their clubs. I think the Euro seasons start earlier in 2005 since it's before the world cup.

When do CL and UEFA cup playoffs start, July I think?

I say just bring in a full Euro team with Donovan, Bease, Boca... with the off-the-radar euro players and a sprinkle of MLS guys. If there are club conflicts like cup playoffs(ins) then maybe some of those guys miss the GC but Donovan is the only one that I can see that happening to.

The schedual is so full that there's really no good way to get around the GC.

U17s :D

[Trellis]

Potential European-heavy Roster:

GKs
1. Marcus Hahnemann- Reading
2. Tim Howard- Manchester Utd.
3. Kasey Keller- Borussia Mochengladbach

Defenders
4. Jay DeMerit- Watford
5. Daniel Karbassiyoon- Arsenal FC (loaned to Ipswich)
6. Jonathan Spector- Manchester Utd.
7. Cory Gibbs- Feyenoord
8. Zak Whitbread- Liverpool
9. Robbie Russell- Rosenborg
10. Gregg Berhalter- Energie Cottbus
11. Oguchi Onyewu- Standard Liege
12. Steve Cherundolo- Hannover
13. Carlos Bocanegra- Fulham

Midfielders
14. Bobby Convey- Reading
15. DaMarcus Beasley- PSV Eindhoven
16. Claudio Reyna- Manchester City
17. Eddie Lewis- Preston North End
18. John O'Brien- Den Haag (Dreaming...I know, but he'd need the games for sure)
19. Peter Philipakos- Olympiakos
20. Earnie Stewart- Venlo
21. Brian West- Fredrikstad (In season, but who knows?)

Forwards
22. Landon Donovan- Bayer Leverkusen
23. Brian McBride- Fulham
24. Jemal Johnson- Blackburn (If he's even interested in playing for the US.)
(Definately short on attacking players for a well-rounded squad.)

That's a great start for a 22-man roster (assuming a few of these are injured or unable to play.) At least theoretically it's possible to field a squad based entirely abroad. I am sure Bruce will include several MLS players, but it would be interesting to see this team play!

[XYZ1234]

U17s :D

I guess but I really don't see that as an option.

My main point is that the top Euro's wont be missing out on rest since they will either be with their clubs for preseason training or with the Nats for the Gold Cup, so they might as well be here unless they have a real club conflict like CL play(offs)ins.

[SoulflyTribeFC]

I'm pretty muc dead set against having the Gold Cup this year and actually sending anything other than our U17 team becasue MLS is in-season and there's WC qaulifying going on also.

I completely disagree. I think we should have a Euro-heavy team with some MLSers but saying that this isn't important and treating this like some crap tournament is wrong.

You do realize that Mexico will probably be seeded in the World Cup, right? Part of that is because they won the Gold Cup in 2003 and the Confederations Cup in 1999. Of course, the only way to get in the Confederations Cup, as you know, is the by winning the Gold Cup and if we send our U-17 team then we will have no chance of winning a game, let alone the Gold Cup.

We need to make it a goal of being seeded in the World Cup and winning the Gold Cup is an absolute must if that is to happen.

[XYZ1234]

We need to make it a goal of being seeded in the World Cup and winning the Gold Cup is an absolute must if that is to happen.

Being seeded for 2010 is a possibility and the Gold Cup and Confed Cup can help but 2006 will really determin if they get a seed or not(assuming FIFA doesn't change their formula).

[appoo]

I completely disagree. I think we should have a Euro-heavy team with some MLSers but saying that this isn't important and treating this like some crap tournament is wrong.

You do realize that Mexico will probably be seeded in the World Cup, right? Part of that is because they won the Gold Cup in 2003 and the Confederations Cup in 1999. Of course, the only way to get in the Confederations Cup, as you know, is the by winning the Gold Cup and if we send our U-17 team then we will have no chance of winning a game, let alone the Gold Cup.

We need to make it a goal of being seeded in the World Cup and winning the Gold Cup is an absolute must if that is to happen.

make this tournament once every 4 years and maybe then I'll start caring about it. Really, FIFA seeding doesn't enter my mind - and the health of our players does.

You do know that there's never going to be a ConFed Cup again after the next one right?

[SoulflyTribeFC]

make this tournament once every 4 years and maybe then I'll start caring about it. Really, FIFA seeding doesn't enter my mind - and the health of our players does.

You do know that there's never going to be a ConFed Cup again after the next one right?

No, I wasn't aware of this.

Still, we need to win the Gold Cup to better ourselves for a seed. If we send a team of nobodies and get thrashed and Mexico wins, there's almost no way we can pass them up and get seeded for 2010.

I do think we need to rest some players, like Landon and DMB. There's no need for having them play 12 months straight. But we could bring in some of the European players listed above, especially Tim Howard, and mix in some MLS players. It's unfortunate that teams will miss their players but that's just the way it is. MLS had all offseason to figure out how to schedule around the World Cup qualifiers and they didn't. That's a league issue, not a NT issue. Bruce Arena's job is to win, not to make sure that Kansas City or DC win.

[careerender]

How 'bout some of the a-league and NISL scabs?

[IASocFan]

A minor point, Rosenborg (Robbie Russell), the Norwegian league, and most of the northern European countries play a Spring - Fall league like MLS. They are in season in June and July.

[appoo]

No, I wasn't aware of this.

Still, we need to win the Gold Cup to better ourselves for a seed. If we send a team of nobodies and get thrashed and Mexico wins, there's almost no way we can pass them up and get seeded for 2010.

I do think we need to rest some players, like Landon and DMB. There's no need for having them play 12 months straight. But we could bring in some of the European players listed above, especially Tim Howard, and mix in some MLS players. It's unfortunate that teams will miss their players but that's just the way it is. MLS had all offseason to figure out how to schedule around the World Cup qualifiers and they didn't. That's a league issue, not a NT issue. Bruce Arena's job is to win, not to make sure that Kansas City or DC win.

Arena's job isn't to win. Its to win when it matters. IMHO thats not the Gold Cup. I know people like to talk about the amazing Press Abroad in South America ad Europe on how the put so much pressure on the coaces to win every single match....well has it ever occured to anyone thats actually a BAD thing? Bruce has the advantge that he can experiment whenever he wants and not have to worry about his job. To me, thats all the Gold Cup is. an experiement.

One more thing, MLS isn't in charge of its schedules. They can't pick and choose dates because they don't control the scheduling of the stadiums. MLS owns 3 stadiums, the others they lease, and the owners of those stadiums are part of the decision making of when to play matches. You think MLS wants to play matches during Gold Cup or Qualifying dates?

[dcc134]

I'd rather see any Euro that is a borderline starter be with their club as it is far more important for them to be established in the team.

Chances are players like LD and Convey are going to need a solid preseason to set up their starting roles in the season. If players who may potentially start with their clubs don't because they miss half of preseason due the Gold Cup, then that would be a damn shame.

Use Replacment players.

[appoo]

I'd rather see any Euro that is a borderline starter be with their club as it is far more important for them to be established in the team.

Chances are players like LD and Convey are going to need a solid preseason to set up their starting roles in the season. If players who may potentially start with their clubs don't because they miss half of preseason due the Gold Cup, then that would be a damn shame.

Use Replacment players.

if Convey wants to have anything to do with the World Cup then he better get his ass into USA Camp this summer. otherwise he's going to leave Bruce to base his decison upon his club form. And if this season is any kind of indication he doesn't want to do that.

LD can do whatever the hell he wants :) he's going to be playing for USA in the summer of 2006

[diablodelsol]

Chad Marshall...these aren't "star" players on their MLS clubs and they can afford to lose them for a few weeks and not worry about losing too much ground.

What Crew have you been watching?

[SoulflyTribeFC]

Arena's job isn't to win. Its to win when it matters. IMHO thats not the Gold Cup. I know people like to talk about the amazing Press Abroad in South America ad Europe on how the put so much pressure on the coaces to win every single match....well has it ever occured to anyone thats actually a BAD thing? Bruce has the advantge that he can experiment whenever he wants and not have to worry about his job. To me, thats all the Gold Cup is. an experiement.

One more thing, MLS isn't in charge of its schedules. They can't pick and choose dates because they don't control the scheduling of the stadiums. MLS owns 3 stadiums, the others they lease, and the owners of those stadiums are part of the decision making of when to play matches. You think MLS wants to play matches during Gold Cup or Qualifying dates?

Well, all I read last year about the conflicts between MLS and qualifiers was that MLS had a long season and had to get all their games in. I don't think they made much of an effort to not play on the same dates as qualifiers. The Galaxy plays home games on June 4 and September 3 or 4, and Chivas plays the other day on Labor day weekend.

On the Gold Cup, I guess we disagree about the importance of it. I'm not going to be happy if we win the Gold Cup but not qualify for the WC, don't get me wrong. But we should win it, why not?

[appoo]

Well, all I read last year about the conflicts between MLS and qualifiers was that MLS had a long season and had to get all their games in. I don't think they made much of an effort to not play on the same dates as qualifiers. The Galaxy plays home games on June 4 and September 3 or 4, and Chivas plays the other day on Labor day weekend.

On the Gold Cup, I guess we disagree about the importance of it. I'm not going to be happy if we win the Gold Cup but not qualify for the WC, don't get me wrong. But we should win it, why not?

FWIW Arena agrees with you. Last time around he was talkign about how its important to win your regional tournament.

and if its true that MLS simply doesn't care about this stuff then its their own damn fault. Personally I think a 4 - 6 week break from Mid- July through August would be perfect. As it gets the league out of the dog days of summer. I see no problem with playing into december, If they can play in the snow in Holland and Germany no reason they can't do it here.