The Best of Times or the Worst of Times?

[Buckwheat]

Hello BS. Please be gracious with you responses to my first post…

Is it the best of times, the worst of times, or somewhere in between for the USMNT?

In my opinion, the situation couldn’t be much better with the USMNT player pool. We’ve got quality and depth at every position…enough for me to be comfortable with about any team Bruce decides to put on the field even when his selection is limited by a few injuries. We’re scoring goals, our defense has been stingy, there haven’t been too many bonehead plays, we are securing points on the road, and winning convincingly at home.

What more could you want? It’s amazing to me to see what’s being discussed here and over at Yanks Abroad regarding the player pool. A pessimist would think we’re in dire straights. We have the news about JOB, who hasn’t played in two years, leaving Ajax. Capt. America hasn’t played for months. Boca is “The worst left back in the Premiership”. The keeper that saved 2 PK’s in the last WC just announced his retirement from the USMNT. Our starting target forward can’t get playing time with his club team. From this, a pessimist would think our midfield, offense, defense, and goalkeeping are all in a shambles. (If I took the time I’m sure I could list more bad news).

What do you think?

[Delta Blues]

Yes. ;)

We have so many "tweeners" in this cycle experience-wise. I think 2010 will be so far ahead of this cycle it'll make our heads spin. Still there's a lot of potential this time around too.

[eplkewell]

US soccer is at the best it has ever been. That having been said, I think things could get a lot better. The loss of O'Brien and Reyna are not huge, as the national team has shown they can function without them. Likewise, Keller is a more than able replacement at keeper. And I assure that Bocanegra is not the worst left back in the Premiership.

I do believe that McBride's lack of playing time in England will hurt the United States, as will the failure of any other European-based Americans to play. Hopefully Donovan will begin to see mroe time for Leverkusen.

Overall, Americans can be confident heading into the next World Cup. We have a great opportunity to meet or exceed our performance in 2002.

[SUDano]

Hello BS. Please be gracious with you responses to my first post…

Is it the best of times, the worst of times, or somewhere in between for the USMNT?

In my opinion, the situation couldn’t be much better with the USMNT player pool. We’ve got quality and depth at every position…enough for me to be comfortable with about any team Bruce decides to put on the field even when his selection is limited by a few injuries. We’re scoring goals, our defense has been stingy, there haven’t been too many bonehead plays, we are securing points on the road, and winning convincingly at home.

What more could you want? It’s amazing to me to see what’s being discussed here and over at Yanks Abroad regarding the player pool. A pessimist would think we’re in dire straights. We have the news about JOB, who hasn’t played in two years, leaving Ajax. Capt. America hasn’t played for months. Boca is “The worst left back in the Premiership”. The keeper that saved 2 PK’s in the last WC just announced his retirement from the USMNT. Our starting target forward can’t get playing time with his club team. From this, a pessimist would think our midfield, offense, defense, and goalkeeping are all in a shambles. (If I took the time I’m sure I could list more bad news).

What do you think?

Welcome to BS! I only have a 100 odd posts. But read it about 100 times a day. I think it's the best of times. I always remember a quote I heard once.
'It's not where you're at in life but what direction you're headed'
And we as a soccer nation are headed in the right direction. We are not taking jumps and leaps but baby steps. Better today than we were yesterday. And so on and so on............
1-PSV,(formerly) Ajax, Feyenoord, Bayer Leverkusen, , Hanover, Mainz Fulham, Man City, Rosenborg, Man U, Blackburn, Olympiakos, all players involved. 5,6 7 years ago unheard of. Youth players at Arsenal, .............throughout Europe. We have a solid and developing domestic MLS league. We just had an ODP 3 day challenge in Argentina against Boca and other top teams in Argentina and won or tied 10 out of 12 matches. We won't always succeed. But each and every day we are getting better and succeeding at developing players and teams on the world stage. I'm excited!

[sidefootsitter]

I think the US has more talent that it had in WC'02 but the WC roster really clicked together and Bruce seemed to do little wrong, aside of keeping Agoos for 3 games too many. Even injuries resulted in better players stepping up.

But the US 2,004-05 WC quals seem a but underwhelming, given the improved talent that the US has.

PS. The team does seem to have 3 pretty big positions to fill : leftback, right attacking mid and the 2nd forward. And maybe a GK too, as Keller has not had a solid start to his career in Germany and allowed a softie against T&T.

[Adam Zebrowski]

when arena has a ton of time to prepare, he's a dangerous coach....

right now the talent level continues to grow, and the questions about depth are slowly being solved....

older players need to be replaced by younger, hungry players, and arena will do so....

he won't rush to make changes, but do it systematically....

we see EJ and GAven and Dempsey and Onyewu on the cusp....

once these guys become primary players, arena will introduce the next crop...

spector...adu...szetela...

[Buckwheat]

Compared to the pre-MLS days, we've made huge progress as a soccer nationally. Unfortunately, the pace we've been improving is going to appear to slow dramatically over the 2010 qualifying cycle. The countries we'll be trying to "pass" are established soccer powers with cultures that support it. It's kinda like taking classes in college...getting a 2.5 gpa is easy, 3.2 takes some work, and a 3.8 takes some dedication and sacrifice. By 2010, we're shooting for a 4.0 and there's a lot of quality competition with the same goal.

Bruce Arena has us on the right path. The next coach, whoever that ends up being, really has his work cut out for him.

[Roehl Sybing]

What more could you want? It’s amazing to me to see what’s being discussed here and over at Yanks Abroad regarding the player pool. A pessimist would think we’re in dire straights. We have the news about JOB, who hasn’t played in two years, leaving Ajax. Capt. America hasn’t played for months. Boca is “The worst left back in the Premiership”. The keeper that saved 2 PK’s in the last WC just announced his retirement from the USMNT. Our starting target forward can’t get playing time with his club team. From this, a pessimist would think our midfield, offense, defense, and goalkeeping are all in a shambles. (If I took the time I’m sure I could list more bad news).

What do you think?
The USA WC squad that ignores the domestic talent does so at its peril, is what I think.

[sidefootsitter]

The USA WC squad that ignores the domestic talent does so at its peril, is what I think. So, if 11 USMNT players were getting regular PT with the G-14 clubs, you'd still insist that Bruce included some MLS folk?

[rkeane15]

I think the US has more talent that it had in WC'02 but the WC roster really clicked together and Bruce seemed to do little wrong, aside of keeping Agoos for 3 games too many. Even injuries resulted in better players stepping up.

But the US 2,004-05 WC quals seem a but underwhelming, given the improved talent that the US has.

PS. The team does seem to have 3 pretty big positions to fill : leftback, right attacking mid and the 2nd forward. And maybe a GK too, as Keller has not had a solid start to his career in Germany and allowed a softie against T&T.
While I do think the team needs to fill in the LB, Rm, and the second forward problems, I am perfectly happy with Keller. He let in a soft goal against t&t, but also came up w/ some great game saving goals. I think he's had a pretty solid start to Germany. He has let in all of two goals? maybe three? The fans seem to love him. Till the end of 06, I say long live keller!

[Roehl Sybing]

So, if 11 USMNT players were getting regular PT with the G-14 clubs, you'd still insist that Bruce included some MLS folk?
Only one goal in the last World Cup was scored by a foreign-based American. In 2004 WCQs, the only two US goalscorers from Europe were Beasley and Donovan (and Donovan moved to Europe AFTER the semifinals). We went to Holland with at least 7 players in the starting lineup from Europe. We lost. We fielded an MLS squad sprinkled with a few foreign-based players, and we beat Mexico.

I know it sounds nice to play in Europe, and I'm sure it does wonders for their club careers, but when they put on the national team jersey my expectations are not very high. Reyna? McBride (@ Fulham)? Bocanegra? Maybe LD has the best chance of still making an impact, but when qualifiers come around, Europe sucks the life out of these players.

Let's also remember that the national team was ALMOST NOWHERE before Major League Soccer. A few brilliant flashes, sure, but none nearly as nice as the time this team is enjoying right now.

[sidefootsitter]

Only one goal in the last World Cup was scored by a foreign-based American. That US team was 50-50% Euro/US based. In addition, some MLS based players did spend time in Europe earlier and most had been playing for the national team for quite a while, which is similar to playing in a decent league.

In 2004 WCQs, the only two US goalscorers from Europe were Beasley and Donovan (and Donovan moved to Europe AFTER the semifinals). One of the reasons for that was the MLS players were heavy in the USMNT mix last year as most of the younger players that Bruce introduced were US based... and Eddie Johnson scored the giant portion of those goals.

This is not to say that the MLS based players didn't contribute, especially given that the US foreign contingent of forwards is not very strong, but that right now more and more Yanks are going overseas and, eventually, probably in time for the 2,006 WC, top 15-25 players will be based there.


We went to Holland with at least 7 players in the starting lineup from Europe. We lost. We fielded an MLS squad sprinkled with a few foreign-based players, and we beat Mexico. Of course, the obvious reply here is that Holland's 1st team roster was far superior to Mexico's experimental line-up ... but me thinks, you're well set on your point and I'll leave it at that.

[Roehl Sybing]

Of course, the obvious reply here is that Holland's 1st team roster was far superior to Mexico's experimental line-up ... but me thinks, you're well set on your point and I'll leave it at that.
My point wasn't in the paragraph you quoted. Those are just facts. My point was in the paragraph after that, which you did not reference.

It's too bad, because argument is what these boards are for in the first place. If you're going to lay down like that so easily, I'm very disappointed.

[sidefootsitter]

My point wasn't in the paragraph you quoted. Those are just facts. My point was in the paragraph after that, which you did not reference. It's too bad, because argument is what these boards are for in the first place. If you're going to lay down like that so easily, I'm very disappointed. Roehl, your argument was that the US based (MLS) players scored more goals in WC'02 and thus any USMNT team mix is to include the MLS players. Is that right?

Now, my point is that one must include the best 11 players even if they play in leagues that may be deemed lower than MLS. It's irrelevant to me whether any of them have even set a foot in the US.

If you'd like to discuss the MLS USMNT members vs. YAs, my argument was that the Euros only recently, perhaps greatly influenced by the WC'02 US run ... or not, began to discover the US born players. Up until then, those who wanted to go abroad had to be rather enterprising and begin on the lower level. At this point, they are actively recruited by the second tier Euro leagues and, once in a while, by the G-14/CL clubs. This means that within a year, you're not likely to find a USMNT starter from a MLS team. (assuming that Bruce won't stick with Eddie Pope, no matter what).

You're welcome to disagree but I believe this would be the path of the US national team much like it's been of any decent soccer power not from the top 4 European leagues.

[Roehl Sybing]

Roehl, your argument was that the US based (MLS) players scored more goals in WC'02 and thus any USMNT team mix is to include the MLS players. Is that right?
On top of that, the European based players - minus keepers - have historically been unable to translate their successes for their clubs to the national team. Consistently the YAs have been more or less invisible when they take the field for the US.

I can turn this into an argument that all of our players should be playing at home, but I'm just going to say that the US must continue to rely on the domestic talent in order to succeed. This isn't principle, this is pragmatism. Their work effort is better and the results are more desirable.

[DamonEsquire]

So truth be told, in agreement on this. Representives are abroad. Their tendencies get lost in the scheme of things.

[FirstStar]

I'm just going to say that the US must continue to rely on the domestic talent in order to succeed. This isn't principle, this is pragmatism.


The key is that the US must continue to field the best players we have for key matches, wherever they play. Picking those best 15 - 20 will always be more art than science, which is why a bad coach can kills us faster than any other team.

Back to the original topic of this thread . . . I'd say its the best of times, and I'll point to a large group of (mostly) US-based players to prove it. Our youth are better every year. Each group that comes along seems to be better than the group it replaces. Look for a strong showing in Holland in June for the U-20s. Right now, there seems to be no ceiling on the development of talent in the US. This is why, I'd say, 2010 and beyone looks bright for the US.