A small, yet encouraging, sign of MLS progress

[Sachin]

Major League [Baseball] attendence down 6.1 percent (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news/ap/20020930/ap-attendance.html)

It's a small sign, but the fact that MLS is increasing attendance while other leagues are declining, is a positive.

In this economy/sports market, even slight progress is a good sign. Let's hope the MLS' attendance growth continues over the next few years. Adding 1,000 fans per game over a 140 game regular season means 140,000 more butts in seats.

Read the following info as League, attendance for just completed regular season, previous regular season, change.

MLS: 15822, 14961 +9%

MLB: 28198, 30012 -6%

NBA: 16966, 16784 +1%

NHL: 16573, 16759 +1%

I left out the NFL because it really has no impact on this discussion. As long they have constant sellouts or "virtual" sellouts, it doesnt' matter.

Of course, MLB, NBA and NHL tickets are far more expensive and the arenas have a higer percentage of capacity filled. But, like I said, even small steps forward when everyone else is slipping is a good indicator of progress.

Sachin

[Andy_B]

http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0922attendance.html

When you compare the 10 teams that were in the league last year, the attendance is flat.

Andy

[JMU Soccer!]

Originally posted by Andy_B
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0922attendance.html

When you compare the 10 teams that were in the league last year, the attendance is flat.

Andy

If Chicago didn't have limited capacity, attendance would look a little less flat.

[empennage]

All those other leagues have more games and more teams, so revenue is higher for those leagues.

[FootyMundo]

Originally posted by Andy_B
http://www.mlsnet.com/content/02/mls0922attendance.html

When you compare the 10 teams that were in the league last year, the attendance is flat.

Andy

So? That means zippo Andy. Who knows what would have occured had we had those two added teams. And who knows what would have happened had Chicago not played in a stadium with fewer seats than they averaged last year (1,000 fewer seats per game). The numbers are the numbers.

As for these revenue issues vis a vis other leagues. Who cares? They have much higher cost structures too. If I'm MLS I'm looking for improvement. And MLS cut costs and increased average attendance. That is improvement and that was the only point of this thread.

[Dr. Wankler]

So far, our numbers for the year are worth being happy about, but if MLS Cup is played in a barren stadium, then that all goes down the drain, so it's too early to get complacent.

I also am uncertain about the validity of a comparison with MLB this year. While their numbers went down, keep in mind that there was talk of contraction before the season and, worse, a serious possibility of a strike during the season, all of which kept some casual fans and a few real fans away from the stadium. But the playoff games I looked at last night seemed to be well-attended, and that's something MLS hasn't achieved yet for its playoffs.

Also, while MLB experienced a decline, attendance at minor league baseball games was up pretty much across the country. There might be a lesson there for MLS, but I'm not sure what it is.

[Northside Rovers]

Originally posted by Sachin
MLS: 15822, 14961 +9%

MLB: 28198, 30012 -6%

NBA: 16966, 16784 +1%

NHL: 16573, 16759 +1%

But, like I said, even small steps forward when everyone else is slipping is a good indicator of progress.

Sachin

I'll take it.

Go back another year and it looks even better.

[AndyMead]

Originally posted by JMU Soccer!


If Chicago didn't have limited capacity, attendance would look a little less flat.

If the existing 10 teams had all played the final game last season, then attendance might be down

[revelation]

What I find interesting is the drop off in playoff attendance since 2000. There were several changes between 1999 and 2000, but what would account for those numbers (a 5K person drop)?

1) Switch to "first to 5 points" instead of "best of 3".

2) More 3 game series with more midweek games.

3) DC United not making playoffs and inclusion of Fusion FC and San Jose (High attendance team in favor of weaker attended teams).

Others?

Does this mean that playoffs don't really matter to the American Soccer fan?

[Marcus Lindroos]

Originally posted by revelation
What I find interesting is the drop off in playoff attendance since 2000. There were several changes between 1999 and 2000, but what would account for those numbers (a 5K person drop)?

1) Switch to "first to 5 points" instead of "best of 3".

2) More 3 game series with more midweek games.

3) DC United not making playoffs and inclusion of Fusion FC and San Jose (High attendance team in favor of weaker attended teams).

Others?

Does this mean that playoffs don't really matter to the American Soccer fan?



Dunno. The biggest MLS draws tend to be regular season "specials" such as July 4, doubleheaders involving other famous clubs etc.. The correlation between success *on* the field and off it, is less pronounced in American major league soccer as well. I suppose it might mean that most MLS fans are *soccer* fans but do not identify (yet!) as strongly with their local teams as (e.g.) NBA & NHL fans do. If the playoffs mostly involve midweek games at short notice, this might explain the MLS attendance drop.
---
Maybe MLS should consider the same format as the NFL & AFL were using in the early 1960s? The pro football postseason basically consisted of only the championship game (East vs. West), and a division championship tie-breaker if necessary. Let's face it: an extended playoff round does not make much sense unless it's a money-maker...that is why the other pro sports would like to invite as many teams as possible.


MARCU$

[AndyMead]

Originally posted by revelation
Does this mean that playoffs don't really matter to the American Soccer fan?

No, it means that MLS fits in with other "minor" leagues, where "not on the schedule" overcomes the "importance of the game." Just look at US Open Cup attendances. Same thing.

[Andy_B]

So? That means zippo Andy

No it means a great deal actually. Comparing the same ten teams from last year is a much more logical comparison. It is not perfect, but far more telling.

Even MLS themselves who need to spin this attendance "growth" as much as they can, are announcing the figures in all possible combinations to demonstrate the differences.

Andy

[soccertim]

Originally posted by AndyMead


If the existing 10 teams had all played the final game last season, then attendance might be down

The Revs had a home game left, and I was expecting a pretty sparse crowd.

Even if we just stayed the same, the league cut expenses through contraction and the creation of SUM. I'd say that we're in better shape than we were a year ago, and that LA and Chicago will definitely do better next year.

[Justin O]

Originally posted by Marcus Lindroos
Maybe MLS should consider the same format as the NFL & AFL were using in the early 1960s? The pro football postseason basically consisted of only the championship game (East vs. West), and a division championship tie-breaker if necessary. Let's face it: an extended playoff round does not make much sense unless it's a money-maker...that is why the other pro sports would like to invite as many teams as possible.

From the perspective of a neutral fan of the league who cares no more about any one team than any other, this would be the most entertaining way to do it for me. The critical thing would be to determine if the rise in attendance at years end really was because of interest in the playoff races. Seems odd that this would be the case since those same people intent on seeing their teams qualify for the post season seemingly have no interest in watching the post season.

[Quaker]

I really think the drop-off in the playoffs is due to two factors: (1) There are a far higher percentage of midweek games than there are in the regular season, and (2) the scheduling short notice doesn't allow for any planning or promotion.

Overall, this year's attendance numbers are slightly encouraging. I expect it to increase again next year thanks to L.A.

[AndyMead]

Originally posted by soccertim


The Revs had a home game left, and I was expecting a pretty sparse crowd.


And Kansas City was pushing 30k, and Columbus (I think) was headed north of 20k.

----
From what I remember about the ranting over LA getting to host the USOC final, the Revs supporters, at that time, were talking about 25k minimum - because the Revs were going to let folks use the tickets they had already purchased for the season finale, but you seem to think was going to be sparse.....

[USAsoccer]

Some of the posters who I respect the most, have become, over the course of time, the most negative, all in the name of "objectivity"?!?

May I suggest that the MLS cup is more than half full, rather than half empty!

2 Specific Soccer Staduims (none before MLS)

Increasing quality of play

Attendence which draws over 15,000 a game

Teams moving toward solvency, rather than insolvency!



Are there problems? Yes! Is MLS completely out of the woods? No! Is the progress that MLS is making maddingly slow? You bet it is!!!!!!

Would all of us like MLS to move quicker on expansion, staduims, ownership, and revenues from TV and other sources, TV and media coverage? Well is the pope Polish?

To quote Donald Sutherland from the movie "Kelly's Heroes": Enough with the negativety, Moriarty...Think that the Bridge will be there, and the bridge will be there!"

[GoDC]

Move San Jose.

[Brrca Fan redded]

Originally posted by USAsoccer
Some of the posters who I respect the most, have become, over the course of time, the most negative, all in the name of "objectivity"?!?

May I suggest that the MLS cup is more than half full, rather than half empty!

2 Specific Soccer Staduims (none before MLS)

Increasing quality of play

Attendence which draws over 15,000 a game

Teams moving toward solvency, rather than insolvency!



Are there problems? Yes! Is MLS completely out of the woods? No! Is the progress that MLS is making maddingly slow? You bet it is!!!!!!

Would all of us like MLS to move quicker on expansion, staduims, ownership, and revenues from TV and other sources, TV and media coverage? Well is the pope Polish?

To quote Donald Sutherland from the movie "Kelly's Heroes": Enough with the negativety, Moriarty...Think that the Bridge will be there, and the bridge will be there!" "The Power of Positive thinging" .All BS posters should go to the same doctor as the Crew did.

[Sachin]

Originally posted by AndyMead


If the existing 10 teams had all played the final game last season, then attendance might be down

I don't know if one set of five games would have swung attendence by 1,000 people. That's a lot, unless there would have been a couple of major outliers (30,000 + crowds).

Sachin