Why not Socialism?

[NoodlesMacintosh]

I don't remember anything from that film but her:

http://bop.borderline-angel.com/02bfa580.jpg

There are certainly worse images to remember from it.

http://www.80s.com/saveferris/images/ed/dirty.jpg

[Section106]

...No capitalism, no America...

Tell that to the military.

[verybdog]

What do you define as a socialist economic system?

Do you mean one where government bureaucrats with poli sci degrees decide how many pcs get manufactured in the next 5 years? No thanks.

35.9 MILLION Americans live in poverty and 45 MILLION Americans are without health insurance. Why do you hate them?

Read this:
Fighting for the welfare state (http://www.american-pictures.com/english/racism/articles/welfare.htm), written by a Dane.

[NoodlesMacintosh]

35.9 MILLION Americans live in poverty and 45 MILLION Americans are without health insurance. Why do you hate them?

It depends on why they have no money or insurance.

[ratdog]

Capitalism is the blood of the American experiment. It harnesses the internal greed, fear and lust built into all and uses them for the good of society by the multiple wants of the individual.

No capitalism, no America.

The trouble is that capitalism is inherently actively anti-democratic and democracy is inherently anti-capitalist. The results thus far of the "American experiment" suggest that you can have a strong democracy with limited capitalism or strong capitalism with a weak or nonexistent democracy. The American power structure has opted for strong capitalism and a weak democracy.

Notice that the countries who are becoming more capitalistic are expanding while countries who are becoming more socailistic are stagnant. Was France's decision to increase the workweek a win for socialism or capitalism? I thought so.

Can you post anything other than easily disprovable talking points?

France's economic growth in 2004 came in at about 2.3%. This is above the 2.2% expected by most economists.

It is true that French companies complained that the strength of the euro against other currencies was making export business difficult. Still, despite the strong currency, French exports rose 5.6%.

Imports did jump 8.6% due to both the strength of the Euro and the dramatic rise in oil prices. This disproves the right-wing argument that there is no domestic demand in France.

Several sources indicate that France will enjoy good growth in 2005. Industrial output in December, 2004 rose 0.7% over November, well in excess of the 0.3% forecast by economists.

A recent survey of France's dominant service sector showed activity hit a seven-month high in January, 2005. The bad news is that, like in the U.S., the rate of growth isn't creating any substantial increase in employment.

Oh, and btw, France is tied with the UK for 6th largest economy in the world and they're ahead of the UK (and far, far ahead of the US) in GDP per capita in 2002, according to the most recent data I could find.

[ratdog]

It's intrinsicly un-American. It is in direct opposition to Franklin's "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

And yet, we have the "USA Patriot Act", thus proving that America is, by your definition, UnAmerican. Quelle irony, n'est-ce pas?

[furie]

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Socialism surpresses the individual in favor of the state.

no thank you.

[Mel Brennan]

The trouble is that capitalism is inherently actively anti-democratic and democracy is inherently anti-capitalist. The results thus far of the "American experiment" suggest that you can have a strong democracy with limited capitalism or strong capitalism with a weak or nonexistent democracy. The American power structure has opted for strong capitalism and a weak democracy.



Can you post anything other than easily disprovable talking points?

France's economic growth in 2004 came in at about 2.3%. This is above the 2.2% expected by most economists.

It is true that French companies complained that the strength of the euro against other currencies was making export business difficult. Still, despite the strong currency, French exports rose 5.6%.

Imports did jump 8.6% due to both the strength of the Euro and the dramatic rise in oil prices. This disproves the right-wing argument that there is no domestic demand in France.

Several sources indicate that France will enjoy good growth in 2005. Industrial output in December, 2004 rose 0.7% over November, well in excess of the 0.3% forecast by economists.

A recent survey of France's dominant service sector showed activity hit a seven-month high in January, 2005. The bad news is that, like in the U.S., the rate of growth isn't creating any substantial increase in employment.

Oh, and btw, France is tied with the UK for 6th largest economy in the world and they're ahead of the UK (and far, far ahead of the US) in GDP per capita in 2002, according to the most recent data I could find.

I just point everyone to this (http://realserver.bu.edu:8080/ramgen/w/b/wbur/connection/audio/2004/08/con_0818b.rm) when they spout that Euro-sclerosis crap, because I'm tired of doing my best PE "Don't believe the hype" imitation.

[furie]

http://tim.movementarian.com/archives/communism-thumb.jpg

couldn't find a socialism one

[NattyBo]

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Socialism surpresses the individual in favor of the state.

no thank you.

Capitalism is not a social system, it is an economic system based on the principals of ownership and means of production. As a result, there is certainly social stratification and there are classes created, but as these are not exclusivley based on capitalism, it is not a social system by any means.

As for 'there are no individuals in a socalist (or as socialism is so often associated with, communist state)', I guess it does only if you are incapable of seperating your identity from material possesions.

[verybdog]

And why is Social Security not socialist, if nationalized health care is?

Good question.

To quote the Danes: "Once people have lived in and enjoyed the fruits and the security of the welfare state, they will never give it up (just as Americans today will never give up the little welfare state they have: social security and unemployment compensation - although the latter is very short term by European standards)."

[Mel Brennan]

...couldn't find a socialism one

Ironic (http://www.washingtonfreepress.org//36/monopoly.html), that (http://www.adena.com/adena/mo/mo06.htm).

[verybdog]

And yet, we have the "USA Patriot Act", thus proving that America is, by your definition, UnAmerican. Quelle irony, n'est-ce pas?

Irony, indeed.

[ratdog]

Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned. Socialism surpresses the individual in favor of the state.

no thank you.

Expressed as only someone who has never read an economics or political science textbook can express it.

[furie]

Ironic (http://www.washingtonfreepress.org//36/monopoly.html), that (http://www.adena.com/adena/mo/mo06.htm).


i mean an actual picture

[furie]

Expressed as only someone who has never read an economics or political science textbook can express it.

that's a quote from ayn rand

[ratdog]

that's a quote from ayn rand

Like I said...

Of course, you have my sincere aplogies if you were posting that quote strictly for ironic effect.

As for Ayn Rand, you might want to check out the Rand thread over in the Books forum.

[furie]

The "red Barchetta" I use to drive through the "Subdvision" has "Power Windows"

cute

[verybdog]

no thank you.

How would you like one year off your work with 80% of salary for travelling around the world?

[furie]

only 80%?
I have expensive tastes.