Some perspective on Gerrard?

[The Jitty Slitter]

Over done, but nonetheless interesting to see some "journalism" (i use the term loosely) that departs from the blatantly arse kissing fare

A player can get away with pulling the team out of shape with headless-chicken running against teams like Olympiakos, Portsmouth and Watford, especially when he pops up with a saviour's goal. But it's harder to look like the midfield general when you're on the same park as a player like Roy "He Actually Is The Man" Keane (and he was on the same park as Keane last month at Anfield, honest).

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1409835,00.html

I wonder what the "we would have won wc2002" with gerrard crew will make of this...

[The Potter]

Over done, but nonetheless interesting to see some "journalism" (i use the term loosely) that departs from the blatantly arse kissing fare

A player can get away with pulling the team out of shape with headless-chicken running against teams like Olympiakos, Portsmouth and Watford, especially when he pops up with a saviour's goal. But it's harder to look like the midfield general when you're on the same park as a player like Roy "He Actually Is The Man" Keane (and he was on the same park as Keane last month at Anfield, honest).

http://football.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9753,1409835,00.html

I wonder what the "we would have won wc2002" with gerrard crew will make of this...


WQell its one of the Guardians 'opinion' articles. I think it falls flat when it makes out Alonso is more vital to Liverpool than Gerrard because its utter bollox.

[sendorange]

Well Jitty Slitter you are the same plum who said "Lampard is another scholes. Dangerous in front of goal, but with a rubbish all round game".

Funny how a few weeks ago people were saying Roy Keane was finished, yet all of a sudden the sun shines out of his arse and everyone else must be crap.

[The Jitty Slitter]

Well Jitty Slitter you are the same plum who said "Lampard is another scholes. Dangerous in front of goal, but with a rubbish all round game".

Funny how a few weeks ago people were saying Roy Keane was finished, yet all of a sudden the sun shines out of his arse and everyone else must be crap.

Your are twisting my post a bit here.

In respect of your first comment, I think Scholes and Lampard are dangerous finishers and suppliers in and around the box. I think neither is good defensively or as a play making midfielder. You also need to read that comment in the context of ffa mickey taking with friends. Relevance?

Second comment: This is not my article, or my view - esp re Alonso. My personal belief is that the UK midfielders like Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard are overhyped, and this is revealed at international level.

[Matt Clark]

My problem with articles like that is that they're so obviously part of a pre-ordained media cycle. We build 'em up (last season, Euro 2004 and then the summer "will he/won't he" stuff), we stir them around (the weekly "he's definitely off" stories) and then we dump on them from a great height. This would appear to be the first signs that phase three of that perpetual media merry-go-round is hoving into view.

There are kernels of truth in what the chap says and there are aspects of what he says that are interesting (if not exactly revelatory, like the "stats without him" bit). But the way he chooses to say it lets him down - it sounds like it was written by some teenage internet pundit on a site called soca4eva.com or something similarly godawful.

Scott Murray is the one of Teh Grauniads cricket corresppondents - and it shows.

Ultimately, the article appears calculated to prepare the ground for the coming torrent of "what's happened to loyalty?"/"he's not that good anyway!"/he's the reason Chelsea fail to retain title" stories which will doubtless cloud Gerrards future. This opinion of Gerrard will find more and more regular expression in the media in coming months - especially if he has the utter gall to turn down a London team a second time. Consequently, it will also become common currency on internet message boards, where the majority of posters (if Bigsoccer is anything to go by) prefer their footballing insights spoonfed to them by the sports media.

Just think - articles of this kind are very convenient for anyone on this site that most enjoys those ultra-vapid "player x is, like, soooooo overrated!!!" threads. It's dreadfully decent of a major English newspaper to be so obliging to people like this thread's originator.

[The Potter]

Your are twisting my post a bit here.]
Second comment: This is not my article, or my view - esp re Alonso. My personal belief is that the UK midfielders like Scholes, Lampard and Gerrard are overhyped, and this is revealed at international level.


Do you mean for England where they have all done well to varying degrees.
Or champions Leauge where they have all excelled.

[The Jitty Slitter]

My problem with articles like that is that they're so obviously part of a pre-ordained media cycle. We build 'em up (last season, Euro 2004 and then the summer "will he/won't he" stuff), we stir them around (the weekly "he's definitely off" stories) and then we dump on them from a great height. This would appear to be the first signs that phase three of that perpetual media merry-go-round is hoving into view.

There are kernels of truth in what the chap says and there are aspects of what he says that are interesting (if not exactly revelatory, like the "stats without him" bit). But the way he chooses to say it lets him down - it sounds like it was written by some teenage internet pundit on a site called soca4eva.com or something similarly godawful.

Scott Murray is the one of Teh Grauniads cricket corresppondents - and it shows.

Ultimately, the article appears calculated to prepare the ground for the coming torrent of "what's happened to loyalty?"/"he's not that good anyway!"/he's the reason Chelsea fail to retain title" stories which will doubtless cloud Gerrards future. This opinion of Gerrard will find more and more regular expression in the media in coming months - especially if he has the utter gall to turn down a London team a second time. Consequently, it will also become common currency on internet message boards, where the majority of posters (if Bigsoccer is anything to go by) prefer their footballing insights spoonfed to them by the sports media.

Just think - articles of this kind are very convenient for anyone on this site that most enjoys those ultra-vapid "player x is, like, soooooo overrated!!!" threads. It's dreadfully decent of a major English newspaper to be so obliging to people like this thread's originator.


Couldn't agree more re the media cycle as they require an agenda to manufacture a story. For eg Chelsea drawing one game is now a stumble, losign two will probably be a mini crisis. This is illustrated by how only a few months ago the papers couldn't have licked arsenal balls more.

I agree the article is convenient for my thesis, which is that Gerrard is over rated by english fans including posters on this site. That is based on me watching him play to be fair Matt, though I don't watch him as much as you being a liverpool fan.

You still don't answer the real question. How good is he really? I feel he's a pretty good player in terms of the prem, but actually not that amazing by international standards.

[The Jitty Slitter]

Or champions Leauge where they have all excelled.

I think that goes a bit far, esp re Gerrard and Lampard.

The fairest place to judge them is in the NT, where they can't rely on foreign greats like Roy Keane.

[The Potter]

I think that goes a bit far, esp re Gerrard and Lampard.

The fairest place to judge them is in the NT, where they can't rely on foreign greats like Roy Keane.


Where with the exception of one back pass they have all done well.

[Colm]

Lampard and Gerrard are overhyped, and this is revealed at international level.I thought Lampard and Gerrard have done pretty well at internation level:confused: , especaily Lampard. Gerrard was ok on wednesday, Lampard wen't AWOL but in general they're both very good at International, Champions league and premierhship level.

[The Potter]

I thought Lampard and Gerrard have done pretty well at internation level:confused: , especaily Lampard. Gerrard was ok on wednesday, Lampard wen't AWOL but in general they're both very good at International, Champions league and premierhship level.

I agree. For gods sake Bowyer was the outstanding midfielder in the CL a few years back.

[The Jitty Slitter]

I thought Lampard and Gerrard have done pretty well at internation level:confused: , especaily Lampard. Gerrard was ok on wednesday, Lampard wen't AWOL but in general they're both very good at International, Champions league and premierhship level.

Exactly. The've done OK. They are OK players.

Result = EURO004

Play whole game camped inside own goalbox because never have the ball.

This is a far cry from Gerrard being one of the best midfielders in the world, which is something one hears often round here

[The Potter]

Exactly. The've done OK. They are OK players.

Result = EURO004

Play whole game camped inside own goalbox because never have the ball.

This is a far cry from Gerrard being one of the best midfielders in the world, which is something one hears often round here


:rolleyes:

[Colm]

Exactly. The've done OK. They are OK players.

Result = EURO004

Play whole game camped inside own goalbox because never have the ball.

This is a far cry from Gerrard being one of the best midfielders in the world, which is something one hears often round hereGerrard may of had a bad Euro 2004 but a lot of other top class players had bad Euro 2004 aswell (a lot of the spanish,italain and french players had pretty awful world cups) and Lampards Euro 2004 was very good

[Matt Clark]

You still don't answer the real question. How good is he really? I feel he's a pretty good player in terms of the prem, but actually not that amazing by international standards.

He's one of the best midfielders in the world. If you can't see that, it's pointless trying to paint the picture for you. Like I said, I find "he's overrated" threads desperately tiresome because their original premise is almost always some intentionally provocative, immature or just plain ignorant prejudice.

If you want, try composing a list of five box-to-box international central midfielders who are clearly better than him, factoring in both inate talent and recent form (say, 12 months).

[The Jitty Slitter]

He's one of the best midfielders in the world. If you can't see that, it's pointless trying to paint the picture for you. Like I said, I find "he's overrated" threads desperately tiresome because their original premise is almost always some intentionally provocative, immature or just plain ignorant prejudice.

If you want, try composing a list of five box-to-box international central midfielders who are clearly better than him, factoring in both inate talent and recent form (say, 12 months).

I think there are 4 central midfielders in the prem who are better than him for a start in Keane, Vieira, Lampard and Mak.

But anyway, as you say there is no point painting the picture for me. Cheers for your answer though.

[sinner78]

Well Jitty Slitter you are the same plum who said "Lampard is another scholes. Dangerous in front of goal, but with a rubbish all round game".

Funny how a few weeks ago people were saying Roy Keane was finished, yet all of a sudden the sun shines out of his arse and everyone else must be crap.


The guy is a top dollar c0ck .I had a good laugh when I saw that 606 photo album.

Keano wasnt even at euro 2004 or world cup 2002 after his little tantrum.
Gerrard gets coated for his euro 2004 form and then compared to keane.A player who hasnt played an international tournie since 1994.

[The Jitty Slitter]

Gerrard may of had a bad Euro 2004 but a lot of other top class players had bad Euro 2004 aswell (a lot of the spanish,italain and french players had pretty awful world cups) and Lampards Euro 2004 was very good

So from there one wonders where his (Gs) rating as one of the best midfielders in the world comes from.

I believe his (and others) perceived value as a player is significantly jacked up by the amount of global exposure he gets in the prem.

[sinner78]

gerrard can play all across midfield as an attacking-mid or defensive-mid .
He can play down the left ,right and middle .
Keane cant do what gerrard does .He hasnt got his goalscoring ability ,set piece ability ,long range shots ,versatility ,etc...
Gerarrd is better plain and simple.

[The Jitty Slitter]

The guy is a top dollar c0ck .I had a good laugh when I saw that 606 photo album.

Keano wasnt even at euro 2004 or world cup 2002 after his little tantrum.
Gerrard gets coated for his euro 2004 form and then compared to keane.A player who hasnt played an international tournie since 1994.

Thanks for the personal insult. I know nothing about you nor you me.

Turning to the football. Keane and Gerrard have competed directly many times

[EDIT]: and how did G come off?