I'd like some opinions, Almunia/Jens

[OklahomaGunner]

I posted this in another thread, and no one addressed any of the questions.

Maybe in my questions I've missed that Jens had the u-17s playing in front of him and faced 15 shots a day. Only Almunia had the advantage of four world-class defenders in front of him. :rolleyes:

What changed in the Arsenal defense? Why is it that suddenly once Jens was taken off...the defense has looked solid ever since? Has given up fewer shots, and had more clean sheets?

Point is, nothing but Almunia changed.

Does that mean he's doing anything great? Not really, he's doing what's asked.

Does it mean that the defense is playing better, and arguably more confidently, since he was inserted? They are certainly playing better, and again...nothing has changed except for Manuel.

Do I think he's the sole cause? Absolutely not.

I just think that the defense possibly having more confidence that Manuel won't shoot himself in the foot -as his predecessor did- allows them to play a bit more aggressively.

That's just my theory, but everyone acting like Jens just faced shot after shot is preposterous.

Also, unless the defense just randomly found new resolve and enthusiasm at the EXACT same time as Manuel was placed in the starting line-up some credit needs to be given to him.

Above all else...who cares why the defense is playing better...I'm just glad they are.

[antifan]

How many times has Almunia played behind Cygan?

[OklahomaGunner]

0.

I assume we're blaming the 3rd Boro goal, or the Greek tragedy on Pascal?

OK.

Now, I've answered your questions and even answered my own...care to answer any of the originals?

Again, I'm not even pretending it's all Almunia, but why did the defense all the sudden stop allowing hardly any shots?

Just seems like an odd coincidental thing that the defense suddenly became more stable when Almunia was placed in the line-up.

My theory is that the defense isn't worried about having to play good defense and giving up a goal anyway due to their keeper being 30 yards from the box giving service to an opposing attacker.

[antifan]

My own theory is that Almunia's run of games coincided with Sol returning to full strength after his injury. I'm not trying to blame Cygan, i think the entire defence played badly when he was in. IMO this rubbed off on Lehmann and thats why he lost his starting spot. I haven't watched all of Almunia's games, but from what i've seen of him i would be surprised if his performances were instilling a new sense of confidence into the defence.

[fedwood]

Do I think he's the sole cause? Absolutely not.



Do I think Sol is the cause? Absolutely

[Rima067]

I haven't watched all of Almunia's games, but from what i've seen of him i would be surprised if his performances were instilling a new sense of confidence into the defence.


^^This is what I want to post.


OklahomaGunner, haven't you watched Almunia play? What confidence does he give?? Did you watch the Bolton match? That wasn't a rarity from him. He's too bumbling. What confidence does that bring?

I don't care to answer your questions really, but this has to be pointed out.

[michaec]

Almunia is rubbish, he's heistant and the defence has no confidence in him. I've lost count defenders have cleared the ball from more or less out of his hands becuase the obviously don't trust him. Lehmann if anything is over-confident and thinks he can get away with anything. Judging by the several that he let in since we've had him where he's either had the ball charged down as he was kicking it for a goal or the times he's presented the ball to an opposition player who has returned it to the net, this arrogance is hurting him and the team.

This is not a case of which is better, they're both shite and we need to get a new, hopefully experienced keeper. I know they're pretty thin on the ground, but if you're going to plug what is a glaring gap in the team you have to be prepared to open the chequebook.

[Cannon]

Almunia's good record has a lot to do with the return of the healthy Sol, the type of teams we've played, and a lot of luck. Sol's return to good health and a good run of games in the squad has done a lot to settle the defense. The fact that PV is finally starting to look a little more like himself also leads to less shots.

We've faced a bunch of below average attacking teams since Almunia took over. We've played:

Birmingham (15th in the leage with only 27 goals for which is 6th worst in the EPL)
Rosenborg (we dominated them in the last game of the CL round and they only scored 6 goals in 6 games so the 1 that we gave up was right in line with their average),
Chelsea (1st and the best squad that Almunia faced, they are 2nd in goals for with 48 and the 2 Almunia let in exactly equals their average per game),
Portsmouth (14th in the EPL, 26 goals for which is 5th worst)
Fulham (13th, 31 goals for which is slightly above the middle of the pack)
Newcastle (12th EPL, 35 goals which is 6th best which makes the two shutouts against them the best "performances" by Almunia on paper but you'd be lying if you said that they looked threatening today)
Charlton (7th but only 28 goals for which is 7th worst and the 1 that we let in almost equals their per game average.)
ManCity (9th and 30 goals for which is mid pack and we gave up a goal so we didn't do much better than average)
Bolton (11th and 30 goals and of course they beat us by the lone goal. Not a great mark in Almunia's book if you ask me)


Almunia has not faced the 3rd, 4th, or 5th best attacks (Jens did) and has done about EPL average against almost every team we've faced. In other words, he is a decidely average GK.

If you add to that record the number of times he was lucky to not have given away a goal, it is hard to argue that he is a good keeper. He spills the ball much too often, he misplayed several chances and how can you forget the "comical" miscommunication with Sol and Toure? :rolleyes:

Almunia has been quite lucky that strikers have not taken advantage of these mistakes. Can we really place our league title and cup chances on the hope that his luck holds out? Is a completely average keeper enough to secure Arsenal's progress to later stages of the CL or the FA Cup?

[Dave_M]

Do I think Sol is the cause? Absolutely

He was absent for the Stoke game, when Lemon conceded of a rebound from his initial save...

[fedwood]

He was absent for the Stoke game, when Lemon conceded of a rebound from his initial save...

i was just trying to play with his words
to make it look somewhat witty

i guess i failed :( :(

[OklahomaGunner]

This is not a case of which is better, they're both shite and we need to get a new, hopefully experienced keeper. I know they're pretty thin on the ground, but if you're going to plug what is a glaring gap in the team you have to be prepared to open the chequebook.

No argument from me. I'm certainly not calling Almunia a prodigy, just think time is making some forget some of the most idiotic mistakes I've ever watched.

OklahomaGunner, haven't you watched Almunia play? What confidence does he give?? Did you watch the Bolton match? That wasn't a rarity from him. He's too bumbling. What confidence does that bring?

No, I've missed the games...just chose to post this at random. :rolleyes:

Again, when someone doesn't have an answer they revert to overstated sarcasm.

"Bumbling"?

You sure you weren't watching Jens?

I mean from what I read, Almunia NEVER faces a shot, so how could he bumble...without the ball?

It's one or the other, can't be both.

It could be Sol, and that would certainly be reasonable, but if that's the case...we depend FARRRR too much on one player.

I don't care to answer your questions really, but this has to be pointed out.

Well, you've pointed out an arrogance and pompous attitude that should be overlooked. Thanks for making yourself most easy to ignore.

Cannon,

You gave me some real answers rather than "Almunia sucks, and your dumb" I appreciate it.

[surfcam]

I think it has to do with the fact that the back line knows where Almunia is. Lehmann has a tendancy to come running out of the box and get himself into some tricky situations. This means that the defense has to keep an eye on the opponent and their own keeper. IMO, this is Jens down side. Both are pretty good keepers, but these charges out of the box and his temper are liabilities.

Almunia is no prodigy, but he is letting the defense do their job. We'll see how it plays out the rest of the season, but it may just work.

[Jasonisimo]

I posted this. I guess you missed it.

http://67.18.212.126/forum/showthread.php?p=4006382#post4006382

Scroll down to read my next post, too.

[tmaker]

I've opinions on both of them, of course.

1) Almunia is faster and younger. Because of this, he is a better reaction save keeper. Unfortunately also because of this, he is often out of position by a crucial three or four feet. Younger keepers tend to rely on athletics to keep out the ball; older keepers can't, and therefore concentrate on positioning.

2) Lehmann is by far the better positional keeper when play is dynamic, and naturally must be because it's the more sensible way for a rather more hulking keeper to be where he should, rather than having to recover in a split second. Unfortunately, because he's slower than most keepers, he doesn't always recover position well, and relies upon the defense to drop behind him to clean up the goal line, which they seldom do.

3) Almunia and Lehmann spill the ball about equally, actually. If anything, advantage Lehmann. Go back and watch the Bolton game, if you can stand it. If you want a harbinger of The Shape of Things To Come, go watch the Newcastle away game, which was an accidental clean sheet if ever was. Feel the confidence oozing away from you every time the keeper handles the ball. Which brings me to the next point:

4) The defense has no confidence in Almunia. michaec has pointed this out well enough, and I second it. The difference is that for Almunia, Sol and Kolo do bother to get BEHIND the keeper to clean up his mess, and this is much easier to do with Almunia because he doesn't cover much area. He's actually one of the most static keepers I've ever watched in the box, rarely coming off his line, even when he should. Lehmann, on the other hand, covers a LOT of area as a keeper. This is good because it means that someone is taking charge of the defense. It is, in fact, the only way to stop set-pieces and corner kicks on which we concede so often. The keeper must come out. The problem here is that he comes off his line often, while the center backs dawdle, which leaves gaping holes not on the original attack, but rather on the rebound, and this is when Lehmann's concessions seem more like mistakes. I don't believe the defense has no confidence in Lehmann. I think, rather, that Lehmann doesn't have any confidence in his defense, and tries to do their jobs too often.

But then again, behind Kolo Toure, the most overrated Arsenal player, someone has to. If the CBs would bother to hold the goal line more often, Lehmann would have conceded even fewer goals than he did last year. If the defense didn't suck so bad in the air, Lehmann would probably not feel like he has to come out for every single cross. The defense almost NEVER gets behind Lehmann when he comes out, so it looks like he's the one at fault.

I'll give you an example. Look at Chelski's second goal from the Highbury game. Now it's true that Almunia's out of position, and it's true that Gudjohnsen's header was not solid and something of a directional fluke (if he'd headed it solid, Almunia would probably have stopped it). But...where the hell is Kolo Toure on that play? Still tracking back, of course, as he often is. The center back HAS to mark that forward man-to-man there, otherwise you might as well have an open net. Of course he didn't mark him.

Now, if Lehmann had been in goal, he would have been blamed for it. I guarantee it. But no one blamed Almunia.

Despite what nicephoras might have you believe, Arsenal have absolutely
shite marking in the penalty area. We are not average there; we positively stink. Maybe in the 70s NASL days the zonal marking tactic would work, but not now. The thing Wenger doesn't understand is that zonal marking in the PA is fzucked if there is no sweeper, and Arsenal don't play with a sweeper, so...

None of this is to support either of the keepers. But you wanted to know the difference, so there you are. In four or five years, Almunia may be a more confident, superior netminder. Right now, he's good enough for my U-19 boys, but that would be all. Lehmann is an acceptable stopgap keeper, but he's completely out of place in Arsenal's defense, until we have at three starting backs who can head the damned ball. The teams, actually, for which Lehmann is more suited would be Man Utd and Brum, because they do mark very tightly in the penalty area, and their defense actually can head the ball.

I never thought I'd say I miss Nigel Winterburn, but I sure do.

[tmaker]

Again, I'm not even pretending it's all Almunia, but why did the defense all the sudden stop allowing hardly any shots?


Just as a side-note...it isn't defense that stops allowing shots. It's the midfield. You might trace this trend to Vieira's slow, unsteady upward climb toward fitness and away from "I-don't-give-a-damn" and the appearances of Mathieu Flamini and to some extent Cesc.

[Jasonisimo]

Lehmann is an acceptable stopgap keeper, but he's completely out of place in Arsenal's defense, until we have at three starting backs who can head the damned ball. Or just one guy named Sol Campbell? (You read my post?)

Jens Lehman was our keeper for all games last season, and we went undefeated in the League. Undefeated! But you think he's out of place at Arsenal? The defence has been friggin' complacent for large stretches, both from midfield and at the back. You pointed that out.

Your analysis is interesting. However, I'm not sure that Lehman is too slow. I presume he passed the same reaction test that Robinson famously failed. I think you overreach at the part I quoted.

[tmaker]

Or just one guy named Sol Campbell? (You read my post?)

Jens Lehmann was our keeper for all games last season, and we went undefeated in the League. Undefeated! But you think he's out of place at Arsenal? The defence has been friggin' complacent for large stretches, both from midfield and at the back. You pointed that out.

Your analysis is interesting. However, I'm not sure that Lehmann is too slow. I presume he passed the same reaction test that Robinson famously failed. I think you overreach at the part I quoted.

Well put. Let me clarify:

I'm not saying he's TOO slow. I'm simply saying he's slower than Almunia. Age, you know, and fitness. He is a "good" reaction save keeper, rather than an "excellent" one, as I think Almunia is.

And you're quite right, we were undefeated last season, and had the best defense in the Prem. This year...well, we've already allowed as many goals as we did all last year, minus 3. Part of this is the absence of Sol, certainly, for quite a long stretch. (Yes, I read your post.) But a real defense takes more than one person, and this is sort of our Achilles' heel. Sol is a year older and a bit more injury-prone, and while not old by a long shot, cannot possibly ALWAYS cover for Kolo at his age, nor should he. Especially if Le Boss continues to rely on zonal marking. Which, last year, was far less the case. The players just marked a lot tighter last year in general, and this was not all Sol.

I suggest that central defense needs to be good in the air. Kolo isn't, and often Sol had to cover him last year. One can only go to the well so often. Eventually teams find this out. West Brom did. Palace did. If you can send a ball quickly forward to the wide left or beat Lauren (or Hoyte), you need only send a short cross to the near post and you're guaranteed if not a goal, at least a shot on goal, without much interference. If you try for the far post, Campbell will generally intercept, as he has height and skill over most forwards.

I'm not raggin' on Kolo, either. I think he *could* be good in the air, but doesn't bother because he pushes so far forward. I really think Wenger expects Sol to take care of everything in the air, and it simply isn't possible.

[OklahomaGunner]

Jason, TM, and Surf.

Thanks.

I just wanted some reasonable arguments for the change in form.

I think some people VASTLY overrate Jens, but my opinion is my own.

[ZonaGunner]

I was all for Almunia getting a chance, as Jens had seemed to get a bit stale and wasn't that impressive. That said, Almunia has been marginal for the most part and I think I'd take Jens back over what we've gotten from Almunia. Jens is a serviceable keeper, but for whatever reason the Arsenal defense just hasn't been the same this season. Maybe Jens is part of that, but I think he's far from the only part of whatever is going wrong at the back.

[Coach_McGuirk]

Has anyone mentioned the rumor that Almunia's teamates call him "Hummingbird" behind his back as he does nothing but flap his arms at crosses?