English Blood, English Support?

[Malkamus]

Out of curiosity, have Spurs been getting any more respect from non-Spurs english football fans for the high % of english players we put on the pitch including three young, very bright prospects for the national team? Off the top of my head I can't think of another squad that regularly plays so many in the Prem.

On any given game you could see: Defoe, Robinson, King (The Three Lions), Carrick, Davies, the one and only Dean Marney, Michael Brown, and Gardener all out there playing. We might see the addition of Reid and Routledge as well.

Do Spurs do anything to market this fact to pick up new fans? Is this taken notice of by english football fans at all? Or is the attitude of most fans that they are so attached to their teams from birth, they don't care if all starting XI plus the subs bench are all english so piss off?

I know Spurs are already well supported and I don't expect Arsenal fans to start fawning over us or anything -- just an overall sense if this makes a difference at all?

my apologies to Morrissey for the thread title...

[sendorange]

From what I've seen it does not make any real difference to the size of the fanbase. Although if we keep progressing to the top then its likely some domestic gloryhunters or unattached fans will choose to support us ahead of others because of that.

The big positive it has is in terms of helping to attract other young english players. They can see that at Spurs players like them are given a chance and that if they do well for Spurs (like Robbo, Defoe and Ledley) then England callups are going to follow. This is useful. Whenever we're at home I always see at least one member of the England management team watching the game, if not Sven then usually Tord Grip or Ray Clemence. That's decent exposure. I think Carrick was swayed in part to sign so quickly because of that, and I think that's part of Routledge's thinking as well.

The other factor is a bit more media interest, although this is a bit double-edged, more media means more transfer talk.

[PYordan]

Is there any sort of far right anti-foreigner party in England? You guys could recruit them. They could sit at one end of the stadium and wave Confederate flags and chant racial stereotypes at opponents. Too bad so many of those English stars are black though, they might not like that.

[THFC1]

I think the supporters give young English players more time e.g. Gardner & Ricketts. The supporters do like players who came through the academy like King, Kelly, Ifil, Jackson, Marney & Yeates.

I dont think other supporters of other clubs would take that much notice of us having English players other than they play for England. You would have thought if the team was higher in the table with English players they would get recognition but Everton play with alot of English players & they dont really get that much attention. It may be different with us though as we have Robinson, King, Carrick & Defoe who are young players with a view of getting into the England team

[King Rooney]

Out of curiosity, have Spurs been getting any more respect from non-Spurs english football fans for the high % of english players we put on the pitch including three young, very bright prospects for the national team? Off the top of my head I can't think of another squad that regularly plays so many in the Prem.

On any given game you could see: Defoe, Robinson, King (The Three Lions), Carrick, Davies, the one and only Dean Marney, Michael Brown, and Gardener all out there playing. We might see the addition of Reid and Routledge as well.

Do Spurs do anything to market this fact to pick up new fans? Is this taken notice of by english football fans at all? Or is the attitude of most fans that they are so attached to their teams from birth, they don't care if all starting XI plus the subs bench are all english so piss off?

I know Spurs are already well supported and I don't expect Arsenal fans to start fawning over us or anything -- just an overall sense if this makes a difference at all?

my apologies to Morrissey for the thread title...

davies is welsh (unless u mean davis), reid is irish. but i do respect spurs since jol took over

[jumhed]

Is there any sort of far right anti-foreigner party in England? You guys could recruit them. They could sit at one end of the stadium and wave Confederate flags and chant racial stereotypes at opponents. Too bad so many of those English stars are black though, they might not like that.


There is an anti-foreigner party in the Uk called the BNP. However, Tottenham's nickname is 'The Yids', due to the high proportion of Jewish support for the club. This would (thankfully) put a major downer on any of the BNP scum getting involved.
Not only has the growing number of Tottenham's English contingent been noted by the press and many fans, but their ages. We have the youngest team in the EPL. Our oldest players (Kanoute and Brown I think, feel free to correct me), are 27 years old.

As for English players being black, England's QF game against Brazil at the last WC made history. After a couple of substitutions, it was the first time that black English players outnumbered their white colleagues on the pitch.
Colour doesn't matter, only ability.

[metropolis2k]

Naybet is 34 but even with him in the side our average age is around 23/24. Imagine when he's NOT in the side!

[Malkamus]

davies is welsh (unless u mean davis), reid is irish. but i do respect spurs since jol took over

yeah I meant Davis -- thanks for the correction on Reid, I had it in my head he was english...thanks for y'alls response...my education about english football culture progresses...

[Dave_M]

Out of curiosity, have Spurs been getting any more respect from non-Spurs english football fans for the high % of english players we put on the pitch including three young, very bright prospects for the national team? Off the top of my head I can't think of another squad that regularly plays so many in the Prem.


Well I'd like to think we live in a more enlightened age than that. A players nationality really should not be an issue in todays world, especially in a sport so global as football.

That said, a strong youth contingent will always attract attention from people outside of the Spurs fanbase. While it is unlikely anyone is going to "convert" to another club, most people probably accept that the kids of today will be the England International squad of tommorow, and if Spurs looks to be providing that talent the people, and the press will notice

[Dave_M]

Is there any sort of far right anti-foreigner party in England? You guys could recruit them. They could sit at one end of the stadium and wave Confederate flags and chant racial stereotypes at opponents. Too bad so many of those English stars are black though, they might not like that.


Well I'd like to think we live in a more enlightened age than that.

Unless you live in Spain...

[pookspur]

Out of curiosity, have Spurs been getting any more respect ...

i remember a few years back talking with a couple of scottish fans (not old firm supporters) who seemed mildly comtemptuous of rangers, and respectful toward celtic, when considering the fact that the former yielded no one to the national side, whereas the bhoys fielded a fair number of scots - an "are they a scottish club, or not?" kind of perception.

i believe chelsea took a bit of the same stick when throwing ten foreigners and dennis wise on the pitch every weekend.

conversely, i remember villa getting off to a really good start one year ('98, maybe?), and it seems to me that they were regularly getting praise from neutrals for being at the top of the table with 11 englishmen (or perhaps it was just 11 brits. not sure).

granted, all of these examples go back five, or more, years, when the shifting dynamics of bosmans and EU labor regulations were still developing. perhaps there's been a great change in the supporting culture since then. but these types of examples would lead me to believe that, at some small level, the answer to malkamus's question might be 'yes'.

not that it's the kind of thing that would increase spurs fanbase, or even sell more tickets - but regarding some degree of respect within the overall english football culture, perhaps?

is this perception off base? i'll gladly defer to the locals (and anyone else) who know more.

[LedleybetterthanSol]

Unless you live in Spain...


nice observation, WTF is someone from Spain doing whinging to us about racism. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. (no pun intended)

[Malkamus]

Well I'd like to think we live in a more enlightened age than that. A players nationality really should not be an issue in todays world, especially in a sport so global as football.

That said, a strong youth contingent will always attract attention from people outside of the Spurs fanbase. While it is unlikely anyone is going to "convert" to another club, most people probably accept that the kids of today will be the England International squad of tommorow, and if Spurs looks to be providing that talent the people, and the press will notice

yeah, I agree. The international aspect of the game is one of the attractions of football for me. The great diversity in the english top-flight not only makes the game more interested, but undoubtedly higher quality.

[pookspur]

Well I'd like to think we live in a more enlightened age than that. A players nationality really should not be an issue in todays world, especially in a sport so global as football.


but keep in mind that it's not exactly a 'zero sum' situation. finding favor with a native doesn't inherently equate to finding disfavor with a foreigner.

the fact is that when it comes to sport, one characteristic which inevitably finds favor is ... 'being like me'. but that doesn't (or at least it shouldn't) make 'not being like me' an affront.

example: white folks here in the states had a particular fondness for larry bird when he was playing in the NBA, not only because he was great, but because he was great and white. but that didn't make them like magic johnson or michael jordan less - nor did it prohibit black folk from liking larry bird.

perhaps putting it it racial terms is not the best way to consider the issue. but think about it. if you discover that some player, oh, for example, went to your highschool, or came from the same small town, there would normally be, at some level, an appreciation for that fact - even though it says virtually nothing about that player's abilities, personality, or character. i remember when i was in college, in my baseball playing days, it seemed like all of my roommate greg's favorite players seemed to be these huge powerhitters, while my pal brett's favorite players all seemed to be speedy outfielders, and, for some reason, a disproportionate number of my favorites were infielders. any guesses as to what kind of players greg, brett, and myself were? but that certainly didn't mean that any of us hated pitchers.

hell, if our enlightenment means that nationality has been rendered meaningless, then we may as well do away with that world cup thingy.

the fact is that we all tend to find favor with characteristics like our own. but they do not, obviously, have anything, necessarily, to do with values, character, or any other 'legitimate' determiners of how much someone deserves to be liked. no matter how enlightened our age may be, i suspect this will always be the case. it's just natural.

the affront is when one finds disfavor with characteristics unlike his own.

[Malkamus]

but keep in mind that it's not exactly a 'zero sum' situation. finding favor with a native doesn't inherently equate to finding disfavor with a foreigner.

the fact is that when it comes to sport, one characteristic which inevitably finds favor is ... 'being like me'. but that doesn't (or at least it shouldn't) make 'not being like me' an affront.

example: white folks here in the states had a particular fondness for larry bird when he was playing in the NBA, not only because he was great, but because he was great and white. but that didn't make them like magic johnson or michael jordan less - nor did it prohibit black folk from liking larry bird.

perhaps putting it it racial terms is not the best way to consider the issue. but think about it. if you discover that some player, oh, for example, went to your highschool, or came from the same small town, there would normally be, at some level, an appreciation for that fact - even though it says virtually nothing about that player's abilities, personality, or character. i remember when i was in college, in my baseball playing days, it seemed like all of my roommate greg's favorite players seemed to be these huge powerhitters, while my pal brett's favorite players all seemed to be speedy outfielders, and, for some reason, a disproportionate number of my favorites were infielders. any guesses as to what kind of players greg, brett, and myself were? but that certainly didn't mean that any of us hated pitchers.

hell, if our enlightenment means that nationality has been rendered meaningless, then we may as well do away with that world cup thingy.

the fact is that we all tend to find favor with characteristics like our own. but they do not, obviously, have anything, necessarily, to do with values, character, or any other 'legitimate' determiners of how much someone deserves to be liked. no matter how enlightened our age may be, i suspect this will always be the case. it's just natural.

the affront is when one finds disfavor with characteristics unlike his own.

well said!

[Dave_M]

well said!

Not wrong. I can't find a reply to that :D

[PYordan]

nice observation, WTF is someone from Spain doing whinging to us about racism. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. (no pun intended)

Unless I'm actually not Spanish and am just living here for the year. All those ultra sur bastards at Madrid with their confederate flags and fascist salutes really drive me nuts, and this kind of thinking does head in the same general direction -- though clearly not that extreme.

And I'll whine about racism all I want, thank you.

[The Double]

Unless I'm actually not Spanish and am just living here for the year. All those ultra sur bastards at Madrid with their confederate flags and fascist salutes really drive me nuts, and this kind of thinking does head in the same general direction -- though clearly not that extreme.

And I'll whine about racism all I want, thank you.

This isn't the place to whine. Try the Leeds forum.