Let's get 2005 started. Best xi's of each league's entire history.

[Dark Savante]

The top leagues in the world have seen an incredible amount of talent pass through their doors in the 100+ years they have been operating but have you ever wondered what the best xi each league could put out would look like? Here’s your chance to post what you think each league’s best xi would look like.

Make sure your xi is correct in that you know for sure that all xi played in said country’s league. It would also make sense to list great players who had their peak in a specific country/countries directly to that country (or countries if they were great in more then one) and not in others where they did not. For example Maradona would be eligible for the Apetura/Argentine league and the Italian serie A but not La Liga as he was not at his best there in comparison. Same for Cruyff and any other legendary player – make sure your data is correct.

This is also an opportune time to list players who had/have a fantastic club career but maybe didn’t set the world alight in international competition (for whatever reason) players like Nordahl, Finney, Gento, Raul, Shearer, Coutinho and Di Stefano immediately come to mind. There are hundreds more who could merit places over more internationally renowned names.

The challenge would be to list for the English, Italian, Spanish and German leagues as they are the easiest for most people but, if your regional league knowledge is of a different country feel free to post it. Argentine, Brazilian and Dutch are ones I’d be interested in seeing and having a go at myself but I’m not sure I have the in depth knowledge of those leagues to not miss out the glaringly obvious :p

It doesn’t matter what nation the players are from just as long as they played in the league of that country they are fine.

Good Luck.

[lanman]

England

-------------------Schmeichel
Neal-----------Moore----Wright------Hapgood
--------------Keane-------Souness
Matthews-----------------------------Finney
-------------Greaves-------Bloomer

[Gregoriak]

Excellent idea. Bundesliga will be easiest for me:

A-Team

-----------------11-Rummenigge-----9-Müller

-------8-Overath-----------10-Netzer-----------7-Breitner

--------------------------6-Matthäus

-----3-Brehme-----4-K.H.Förster----5-Beckenbauer-----2-Vogts

-----------------------------1-Maier


B-Team

-------------------11-Völler-----9-Klinsmann

-----8-Littbarski--6-Bonhof-------7-Grabowski---10-Hässler

------3-Briegel-----4-Kohler------5-Sammer-------2-Kaltz

--------------------------1-Kahn

[Dark Savante]

England

-------------------Schmeichel
Neal-----------Moore----Wright------Hapgood
--------------Keane-------Souness
Matthews-----------------------------Finney
-------------Greaves-------Bloomer
I don't know.. see this is where the controversy will start heh, I'm just doing mine now. Do you believe Moore and Billy Wright to be the two best CB's ever in the histroy of the English League? Also for what Matthews and Finney actually did do they win out over others?

For Moore's % of games at West Ham how many of those was he immaculate in etc? Just questions, not neccesarily saying your team is 'wrong' or anything curious to your answers :)

I'm amazed you have no Kenny Daglsh in your team!

Feel free to make as many teams as you want guys. Mine is coming shortly.

[Dark Savante]

Excellent idea. Bundesliga will be easiest for me:

A-Team

-----------------11-Rummenigge-----9-Müller

-------8-Overath-----------10-Netzer-----------7-Breitner

--------------------------6-Matthäus

-----3-Brehme-----4-K.H.Förster----5-Beckenbauer-----2-Vogts

-----------------------------1-Maier


B-Team

-------------------11-Völler-----9-Klinsmann

-----8-Littbarski--6-Bonhof-------7-Grabowski---10-Hässler

------3-Briegel-----4-Kohler------5-Sammer-------2-Kaltz

--------------------------1-Kahn


The Bundesliga has to be the easiest one of the lot imo. Their are so few foriegners who made even a dent in that league's history you can easily collate the best of the NT and be pretty much sure they were superb in the league as well. Funnily enough my German a team is exactly the same as yours. As a point of interest would that team you just put up also be Germany's all time xi in your view? If not who would be in or excluded?

[Dark Savante]

I'll go with this for England:

-------------Schmeichel
----------Hansen--Campbell
Phil Neal---------------------Samson
----Charlton----Keane—Souness
-------Daglish--------Henry
--------------Shearer

More teams to follow. But this is the best I can come up with I think.

[lanman]

I don't know.. see this is where the controversy will start heh, I'm just doing mine now. Do you believe Moore and Billy Wright to be the two best CB's ever in the histroy of the English League? Also for wht Matthews and Finney actually did do they win out ove others?

For Moore's % of games at West Ham how many of those was he immaculae in etc? Just questions, not neccesarily saying your team is 'wrong' or anything curious to your answers :)

I'm amazed you have no Kenny Daglsh in your team!

Feel free to make as many teams as you want guys. Mine is coming shortly.

The only other centre back I would consider would be Hansen - those three are the finest for me. Moore and Wright (and Finney and Matthews for that matter) just happened to play for largely unsuccessful sides - it doesn't say anything about their actual standard.

Dalglish would be somewhere close, likewise Lofthouse, Shearer and Dean. Greaves has to be up front (it would be like leaving Muller out of a Bundesliga side) and for me Bloomer's record is outstanding - 352 league goals (317 in 1st Division ranks only behind Greaves) and 5 times top scorer (second only to Greaves). Matthews and Finney provide the flair so Dalglish would have to settle for a place on the bench.

[Dark Savante]

The only other centre back I would consider would be Hansen - those three are the finest for me. Moore and Wright (and Finney and Matthews for that matter) just happened to play for largely unsuccessful sides - it doesn't say anything about their actual standard.

Dalglish would be somewhere close, likewise Lofthouse, Shearer and Dean. Greaves has to be up front (it would be like leaving Muller out of a Bundesliga side) and for me Bloomer's record is outstanding - 352 league goals (317 in 1st Division ranks only behind Greaves) and 5 times top scorer (second only to Greaves). Matthews and Finney provide the flair so Dalglish would have to settle for a place on the bench.

Question: Do you think it was easier to score back then then it is nowadays?

I took Shearer because of his range of goals and the fact he could easily work up top alone while the other two roamed. What are your thoughts on Henry? It was a choice of him or Greaves with a modfied system. I took him for his dynamic edge and the frightening pace.

There is one thing I'd like to ask you about Greaves which I couldn't find info on. Was he ever injured/ out of the game for any long periods of time apart from the end of the '66 season?

[lanman]

Question: Do you think it was easier to score back then then it is nowadays?

I took Shearer because of his range of goals and the fact he could easily work up top alone while the other two roamed. What are your thoughts on Henry? It was a choice of him or Greaves with a modfied system. I took him for his dynamic edge and the frightening pace.

There is one thing I'd like to ask you about Greaves which I couldn't find info on. Was he ever injured/ out of the game for any long periods of time apart from the end of the '66 season?

For Bloomer it was and it wasn't if you see what I mean. Defences weren't as sophisticated, but the offside law was more favourable to defenders when he played. Most of the top scorers of the English league came in the 20's 30's and 40's after the relaxation of offside. Like Greaves no other player of his time put up those sort of numbers.

I don't think Greaves was ever out for long periods (don't quote me though).

Chelsea 57-60 157 124
Tottenham Hotspur 61-70 322 220
West Ham United 71-72 38 13

He doesn't appear to have missed a great deal of games over his career.

[Gregoriak]

The Bundesliga has to be the easiest one of the lot imo. Their are so few foriegners who made even a dent in that league's history you can easily collate the best of the NT and be pretty much sure they were superb in the league as well. Funnily enough my German a team is exactly the same as yours. As a point of interest would that team you just put up also be Germany's all time xi in your view? If not who would be in or excluded?

I played with the thought of adding Allan Simonsen as a third striker, but then I would have had to reduce the midfield to 3, using Breitner as left full back and throwing Brehme out. Could have been done like that. There weren`t too many fabulous foreign players playing in the Bundesliga, at least not fabulous by name. Other than Simonsen, Kevin Keegan springs to mind, he was a top star in the late 70s, but only played three seasons, which was not enough. Ronnie Hellström, the great Swedish keeper could have been an option, other famous names would Sören Lerby, Morten Olsen, Bixente Lizarazu, Giovane Elber, Jean-Marie Pfaff, Branko Oblak, Anthony Yeboah, or Krassimir Balakov. But I personally don`t feel they could substitute any of the native Germans.

If I would have to compile a Germany All-Time XI, it would probably look roughly the same, except that I would put Fritz Walter in Netzer`s position, and Helmut Rahn in Breitner`s (as an outside right). For the left full back position, three players would compete, being Paul Breitner, Andreas Brehme and of course Karl-Heinz Schnellinger.

P.S.: I started a thread about a Bundesliga All-Time XI for foreign players in the Germany forum a while back. You may check it out:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153749

[Dark Savante]

For Bloomer it was and it wasn't if you see what I mean. Defences weren't as sophisticated, but the offside law was more favourable to defenders when he played. Most of the top scorers of the English league came in the 20's 30's and 40's after the relaxation of offside. Like Greaves no other player of his time put up those sort of numbers.

I don't think Greaves was ever out for long periods (don't quote me though).

Chelsea 57-60 157 124
Tottenham Hotspur 61-70 322 220
West Ham United 71-72 38 13

He doesn't appear to have missed a great deal of games over his career.
No doubt Greaves would be a world Legend if '66 had gone right for him. His club career is pretty much faultless.

I don't think they'll ever be a time when players rack up 300+ in the league over a career anymore. Shearer will be the last one to get those kind of numbers with Only Henry realistically ever having a hope of matching Shearer's EPL numbers due to his age and the possibility of him seeing out his career in England.

[Dark Savante]

I played with the thought of adding Allan Simonsen as a third striker, but then I would have had to reduce the midfield to 3, using Breitner as left full back and throwing Brehme out. Could have been done like that. There weren`t too many fabulous foreign players playing in the Bundesliga, at least not fabulous by name. Other than Simonsen, Kevin Keegan springs to mind, he was a top star in the late 70s, but only played three seasons, which was not enough. Ronnie Hellström, the great Swedish keeper could have been an option, other famous names would Sören Lerby, Morten Olsen, Bixente Lizarazu, Giovane Elber, Jean-Marie Pfaff, Branko Oblak, Anthony Yeboah, or Krassimir Balakov. But I personally don`t feel they could substitute any of the native Germans.

If I would have to compile a Germany All-Time XI, it would probably look roughly the same, except that I would put Fritz Walter in Netzer`s position, and Helmut Rahn in Breitner`s (as an outside right). For the left full back position, three players would compete, being Paul Breitner, Andreas Brehme and of course Karl-Heinz Schnellinger.

P.S.: I started a thread about a Bundesliga All-Time XI for foreign players in the Germany forum a while back. You may check it out:

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153749

Will do.

Toying with the idea oif venturing to make an Italian and Spanish xi.. I may get stoned for omitting some obvious choice or other though...

[Gregoriak]

I tried Serie A, and as expected, it was incredibly tough coming up with a All-Time XI, so many great players:

A Team

--------------Nordahl------Meazza

--------Maradona----Platini----Rivera

--------------------Rijkaard

----Maldini-----F.Baresi-----Scirea------Cafu

----------------------Zoff

B Team


-----------van Basten----Piola

----A.Mazzola-----Schiaffino-----Hamrin

------------------Matthäus

----Facchetti---Desailly---Schnellinger---Burgnich

--------------------Buffon

[Dark Savante]

Serie A:

---------------Zoff
-------------Baresi
----------------------Fachetti
--Bergomi-----------------Maldini
--------------Rijkaard
-------Gullit-----------Rivera
--------------Maradona
--------Nordahl—Van Basten

---

Edit. Gullit in..Donadoni out.

[Dark Savante]

La Liga:

--------------Zamora
----------Nadal--Santamaria
-Marquitos--------------Roberto Carlos
---------Di Stefano--Hierro
--Figo(Barca)---------------Gento
---------H.Sanchez-Puskas

[Cassano]

I tried Serie A, and as expected, it was incredibly tough coming up with a All-Time XI, so many great players:

A Team

--------------Nordahl------Meazza

--------Maradona----Platini----Rivera

--------------------Rijkaard

----Maldini-----F.Baresi-----Scirea------Cafu

----------------------Zoff

B Team


-----------van Basten----Piola

----A.Mazzola-----Schiaffino-----Hamrin

------------------Matthäus

----Facchetti---Desailly---Schnellinger---Burgnich

--------------------Buffon

An Italian All-time XI without Roberto Baggio is not an All-time Italian XI.

[nicephoras]

La Liga:

--------------Zamora
----------Nadal--Santamaria
-Marquitos--------------Roberto Carlos
---------Di Stefano--Hierro
--Figo(Barca)---------------Gento
---------H.Sanchez-Puskas

I'd replace Hierro with Kubala (why is he always forgotten?), Figo with Cruyff, and Roberto Carlos with Rial. No true ball winner, but I can't really leave out Ladislaus.

The one other thing I might change is Puskas. He didn't play as long for Real as most think. I'd consider putting in Romario, however briefly he played in Spain. Or just go with Hugo up front and put Hierro back in.

[Dark Savante]

An Italian All-time XI without Roberto Baggio is not an All-time Italian XI.
I don't see how you figure that. He is below some of the best ever in that position in the entire world history of the game and can be omitted quite easily, imo. There is no way you leave out Maradona and if anyone was going to remove an out and out striker to put a support one in, it wouldn't be for Baggio in most cases. Are you aware of Platini's record at Juve? It is quite phenomenal considering his role in the team.

As a point of interest why have you not done an xi for serie a?

[Dark Savante]

I'd replace Hierro with Kubala (why is he always forgotten?), Figo with Cruyff, and Roberto Carlos with Rial. No true ball winner, but I can't really leave out Ladislaus.

The one other thing I might change is Puskas. He didn't play as long for Real as most think. I'd consider putting in Romario, however briefly he played in Spain. Or just go with Hugo up front and put Hierro back in.

The Cruyff that was in Spain would not have such a great rep if we took his standing in the game solely based on what he did in La Liga. What he did in Spain doesn't have as much impact on me as how Figo was when he was at Barca. I didn't forget Kubala....I toyed with the idea of putting both he and Kopa in the team but, Hierro is worthy of his spot imo he was a great, great player for a long time.

The other guys you mentioned I put in because of their impact on the league and the way they played. I tried to avoid players who weren't there for long..it opens up a huge can of worms imo so I stayed clear..

[Cassano]

I don't see how you figure that. He is below some of the best ever in that position in the entire world history of the game and can be omitted quite easily, imo. There is no way you leave out Maradona and if anyone was going to remove an out and out striker to put a support one in, it wouldn't be for Baggio in most cases. Are you aware of Platini's record at Juve? It is quite phenomenal considering his role in the team.

As a point of interest why have you not done an xi for serie a?

But Baggio is one of the top goalscorers in Serie A History, 5th all-time with 205. Of Course Maradona and Platini aren't replaceable, but I'm saying that Baggio could atleast make the B-team. I am going to make an XI for Serie A but I'm still thinking...