Arsenal: Everybody Hates You

[comme]

Here is the quote "Around 2,400 suspected English soccer hooligans could be banned from travelling to Euro 2004 in Portugal compared to just 100 when the last championship was held in Belgium and the Netherlands.

David Swift, the British police's pointman on hooliganism, told Reuters in an interview on Wednesday that 340 more banning orders were going through English courts on top of 2,061 put in place since Euro 2000."

[comme]

Here is another one "On Monday, Ms Blears signed a memorandum of understanding with her Portuguese counterpart, Nuno Magalhaes, to confirm the UK Government's commitment to stop about 2,500 English hooligans travelling to Portugal through the use of banning orders."

[Rick B]

Here is the quote "Around 2,400 suspected English soccer hooligans could be banned from travelling to Euro 2004 in Portugal compared to just 100 when the last championship was held in Belgium and the Netherlands.

David Swift, the British police's pointman on hooliganism, told Reuters in an interview on Wednesday that 340 more banning orders were going through English courts on top of 2,061 put in place since Euro 2000."


Jeez, you really are making things difficult arn't you? The quote above states English fans, not England fans. There is a big difference and I was trying to point it out to you, you muppet. :rolleyes:

[comme]

English fans in the vast, vast majority are England fans.

They aren't travelling out there for the beaches of the Algarve and the culture of Lisbon, they are going for the European Championships which England are participating in.

[prk166]

Sorry, I hate to troll, but all I hear of Arsenal fans, apart from the endless boasting about having the greatest team on Earth is the 'and everybody hates us don't they?'



Apparently no one's told them about that Jesus guy. He loves everyone.

[Rick B]

English fans in the vast, vast majority are England fans.

They aren't travelling out there for the beaches of the Algarve and the culture of Lisbon, they are going for the European Championships which England are participating in.


Its like banging my head on a brick wall!!

When the stupid genes were handed out, you were certainly first in the queue. I tried to talk sense to you, but all in all you have not one semblance of common sense in your body. Stay in manchester for the good of London. At least the Spurs fns who I kow have some brains, they had a look at this and just laughed at your incredible stupity. Good luck in life mate, your gonna need it.

[comme]

Great argument!

[Rick B]

Great argument!


I have tried to make a point the whole time. Unfortunatly yuou are either not very clever or you are only a kid. If it's the latter you'll learn in time and I apologise for being rude. If it's the latter, you obviously have the mental age of a kid, so again apologies.

[Joe E]

http://www.arseblog.com/henryspurs.html

spurs fans

that picture just cuts me out. i was there, just above the shot, v-signing with the best of them. what the fcuk do you expect! the arrogant prick runs the length of the pitch to take the piss! that reaction is IDENTICAL to what you would get from any set of away fans in the country, including the scum's if van nistelrooy or robbie keane celebrated a goal by running straight up to them.
on this whole hooligan debate - we're bad at the moment, we really are. clubs always are when form on the pitch is bad and the fans have very little to sing about - take man utd/chelsea when they were in the lower leagues. cardiff in the worthington cup last year was as bad as anything i've seen - seventies style, all over the street chaos. and i'm aware that what happened after the arsenal game was nasty, brutal and utterly unforgiveable (although are you SURE there wasn't a bit of poetic licence with the 15 year old girl??) but as for you telling comme/ whoever to "hang their heads" - -what the hell do you want ordinary fans like us to do about it? go up to them (because i do see the firms in action more than i did a couple of years ago) and say "excuse me chaps, do you think you might desist giving the club a bad name?" we're just as powerless as you would be if it was happening at your club (and might i say, don't try and overdo the saintly arsenal deal! you very definitely DO have thugs for fans. like the ones who sat near my jewish arsenal supporting friends at highbury and sung "spurs are on their way to auschwitz" throughout a game. how charming. so what are you going to do about that?)

[Joe E]

Jeez, you really are making things difficult arn't you? The quote above states English fans, not England fans. There is a big difference and I was trying to point it out to you, you muppet. :rolleyes:

erm, no,sorry rick. i'd like to give this post the "2004 clinging to straws desperately in an attempt to avoid having to admit you've been proved wrong award". the panel was especially impressed by your use of meaningless technicalities, and attempts to continue acting superior without foundation. many congrats. :D

[Joe E]

[QUOTE=comme]
Fourth, how about this from the 2000 NCIS report "Ten Arsenal supporters attacking an innocent male inside Holloway Road underground station, dragging him from a carriage onto the platform where the assault continued leaving the male unconscious." Let's not forget either that your fans threw coins and missiles at Jamie Carragher prompting him to throw one back. I know this is a bit different but it still shows that the Arseanl fans aren't saints.


You asked for an example and were given it. any response? look, all this shows that every club has bad fans. for you to try and pretend otherwise is ridiculous. i would concur that spurs have a worse hooligan problem at the moment, certainly. and i apologise for what you dealt with at the lane. (though it wasn't my fault!) but this "arsenal fans good, spurs fans bad" dichotomy you're peddling is a bit of a false one.

[comme]

I have tried to make a point the whole time. Unfortunatly yuou are either not very clever or you are only a kid. If it's the latter you'll learn in time and I apologise for being rude. If it's the latter, you obviously have the mental age of a kid, so again apologies.


What point is it exactly that you have been trying to make? All you do in your posts is give, without any factual evidence to back it up, the opinion that Spurs fans are the worst in the country and that the Arsenal fans are saints.

You conveniently ignore any other posts and for which I provide evidence.

Luckily I am neither stupid nor a child, but by throwing around insults it iss you that seems to be childish.

Why not provide some statistical evidence to prove that Spurs are so bad instead of simply mouthing off and while you are at it actually answer and refute some of my points.

[Rick B]

[QUOTE=comme]

You asked for an example and were given it. any response? look, all this shows that every club has bad fans. for you to try and pretend otherwise is ridiculous. i would concur that spurs have a worse hooligan problem at the moment, certainly. and i apologise for what you dealt with at the lane. (though it wasn't my fault!) but this "arsenal fans good, spurs fans bad" dichotomy you're peddling is a bit of a false one.

In answer to your last comment, I have no stupid illusion that all Spurs fans are hooligans and all Arsenal fans are saints. At the end of the day, growing up where I did (Barnet and Enfield), everyone will have friends or family who support either side. Although my first comment might seem a little harsh, you know as well as I do (and very respectfully have admited it) that there is a problem at Tottenham and unfortunatly nobody is addressing it.
Millwall, although a horible club to visit, has taken Chelsea's lead and is at least trying. Every Spurs season ticket holder that I know admits it and knows sooner or later a very bad reputation is going to come out.

Re the 15 year old girl, as much as I would like to say it was an exaggeration it really wasn't. She is a member of the travel club who got seperated from her dad when we encountered the first bit of trouble on the corner turning right out of the stadium.

No i don't expect anyone who see's them to do anything about it, if that person got seen going to the police it would be serious trouble for him. Im not asking for sacrificial lambs!! The point I was making to comme was that he was not beleiving that this happened, purely because he obviously doesn't attend games very much. Therefore when saying Spurs don't have a problem it riled me. At the moment Spurs are the club away fans fear more about attending in the Premiership than any other. To say otherwise tends to wind up people who go through it!!

On the whole England thing, you know dam well the point I was making!! I was saying in complete basic terms the difference between fans getting arrested and banned at away England games and fans being arrested and banned at club level games.
You are right about Carragher, what never reached the press was that it was thrown by an idiot who had been banned at the Galatasary match and shouldn't of even been there. But have you ever been to Highbury in the past 10 years especially? You won't find firms waiting for you. It isn't close to Spurs.
As for the pic, I never commented on it. You are right thats just football, at the end of the day I was at the F.A.Cup match v Portsmouth, when Sheringham scored he mouthed to the Arsenal fans C****. But Ive no problem with that, we hate him and it's mutual. I wouldn't shake his hand but I also wouldn't throw stones and bottles at his car/coach though. (Remember first game Campbell was in at WHL in an Arsenal shirt......)

On a last note, the Premiership in the last 3 years has attracted a worldwide audience, hence we are writting on a US website. This is because of the perceived change away from trouble and violence at games towards a family image. This has attracted thousand of new fans and opened up commercial markets like never before. But the hooligan problem is coming back, over the past few seasons it has become worse and worse and when supporters come over from the US, it completly destroys the image they hold. This will destroy all the fanbase we have all built up at somepoint. That is why instead of hiding it away and pretending it doesn't happen Id rather face it head on so sooner or later the clubs have to do something about it.

[comme]

Good post.

[comme]

In answer to your last comment, I have no stupid illusion that all Spurs fans are hooligans and all Arsenal fans are saints. At the end of the day, growing up where I did (Barnet and Enfield), everyone will have friends or family who support either side. Although my first comment might seem a little harsh, you know as well as I do (and very respectfully have admited it) that there is a problem at Tottenham and unfortunatly nobody is addressing it.
Millwall, although a horible club to visit, has taken Chelsea's lead and is at least trying. Every Spurs season ticket holder that I know admits it and knows sooner or later a very bad reputation is going to come out.

Re the 15 year old girl, as much as I would like to say it was an exaggeration it really wasn't. She is a member of the travel club who got seperated from her dad when we encountered the first bit of trouble on the corner turning right out of the stadium.

No i don't expect anyone who see's them to do anything about it, if that person got seen going to the police it would be serious trouble for him. Im not asking for sacrificial lambs!! The point I was making to comme was that he was not beleiving that this happened, purely because he obviously doesn't attend games very much. Therefore when saying Spurs don't have a problem it riled me. At the moment Spurs are the club away fans fear more about attending in the Premiership than any other. To say otherwise tends to wind up people who go through it!!

On the whole England thing, you know dam well the point I was making!! I was saying in complete basic terms the difference between fans getting arrested and banned at away England games and fans being arrested and banned at club level games.
You are right about Carragher, what never reached the press was that it was thrown by an idiot who had been banned at the Galatasary match and shouldn't of even been there. But have you ever been to Highbury in the past 10 years especially? You won't find firms waiting for you. It isn't close to Spurs.
As for the pic, I never commented on it. You are right thats just football, at the end of the day I was at the F.A.Cup match v Portsmouth, when Sheringham scored he mouthed to the Arsenal fans C****. But Ive no problem with that, we hate him and it's mutual. I wouldn't shake his hand but I also wouldn't throw stones and bottles at his car/coach though. (Remember first game Campbell was in at WHL in an Arsenal shirt......)

On a last note, the Premiership in the last 3 years has attracted a worldwide audience, hence we are writting on a US website. This is because of the perceived change away from trouble and violence at games towards a family image. This has attracted thousand of new fans and opened up commercial markets like never before. But the hooligan problem is coming back, over the past few seasons it has become worse and worse and when supporters come over from the US, it completly destroys the image they hold. This will destroy all the fanbase we have all built up at somepoint. That is why instead of hiding it away and pretending it doesn't happen Id rather face it head on so sooner or later the clubs have to do something about it.

I must say that I agree with alot of what you wrote especially the stuff about the international audience.

This is part of the reason that I am so defensive of Spurs is because I don't want people (possible suppprters) to think that our fans are hooligans.

I said from the start that Spurs had hooligans, I still maintain that it is a tiny minority (go to a Cardiff City game to see a club with a real hooligan element), but would agree that the club should do as much as possible to eliminate even these small numbers.

On the England point, even if I was to concede that it was 850 with specific England bannin orders, out of the total England support likely to travel to Portugal, this is still a significantly higher proportion of hooligans than exists at Spurs, and we play at least 5 times as often so there is much more scope for hooligan behaviour.

[Rick B]

I must say that I agree with alot of what you wrote especially the stuff about the international audience.

This is part of the reason that I am so defensive of Spurs is because I don't want people (possible suppprters) to think that our fans are hooligans.

I said from the start that Spurs had hooligans, I still maintain that it is a tiny minority (go to a Cardiff City game to see a club with a real hooligan element), but would agree that the club should do as much as possible to eliminate even these small numbers.


I'm sorry but I really can't agree with you on this point. I stress I know that there are a vast majority of Spurs fans who love football and want nothing to do with violence. But from the away supporters viewpoint, Spurs 'problem element' is easily on a par with Cardiff City, Stoke and Millwall at the moment. It hasn't always been like that, I know that. But the last few seasons have seen a big rise and I think Joe E a season ticket holder there agreed with me on that.


On the England point, even if I was to concede that it was 850 with specific England bannin orders, out of the total England support likely to travel to Portugal, this is still a significantly higher proportion of hooligans than exists at Spurs, and we play at least 5 times as often so there is much more scope for hooligan behaviour.

I would suggest that the Hooligans at England matches are the same people we see at club level, but it is far easier to cause trouble in another country as the police usually isn't set up to deal with it or there is no restriction on alcohol availibility. And obviously there are more hooligans in England matches than Spurs, like there are more England fans than Spurs, Arsenal or whoever.

[mixmastermatt]

Arsenal (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2002/hooligans/diary/arsenal.stm)

Manchester United (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2002/hooligans/diary/manchester_united.stm)

Tottenham (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2002/hooligans/diary/tottenham_hotspur.stm)

Chelsea (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2002/hooligans/diary/chelsea.stm)

Millwall (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2002/hooligans/diary/millwall.stm)

West Ham (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/programmes/2002/hooligans/diary/west_ham_united.stm)

[Joe E]

it is a tiny minority, but it's not as tiny as it once was and less tiny than the minority at other clubs, i think that's the point. last year there was open fighting in the street at the chelsea, west ham and cardiff games. i've been away in the states for most of this year, but was home for the palace game in january where there was an extremely hostile atmosphere. my brother told me that there was fighting in the streets after the chelsea game this year, and my sister, who has my season ticket for the year, was very frightened when she got stuck in the middle of it and was shoved by a spurs fan as he ran to attack a chelsea fan. and then of course the arsenal violence has been well established. it's still the case of course that the vast majority of the time i don't see anything, but it does happen and i can see why WHL would be a scary place to visit. this less organised, more open fighting right outside the ground is a very worrying reminder of days past. and yes, i was at last season's derby at highbury and we walked down holloway road from archway to the ground, drank in a pub full of arsenal fans, and walked back after the game, all wearing colours, and were left completely alone apart from the odd dodgy look. i have to say comme, that probably wouldn't be possible at the lane. (though we may have just been lucky, plus arsenal's heavy win meant they weren't exactly in an aggro mood). but anyway, i felt pretty safe and if anyone seemed up for a fight that day, it was the away fans.
so..from my point of view there is a problem at spurs, and it's a shame. however, let's not forget how all this started, which was a claim that spurs fans in general were hooligans and bastards who didn't deserve any success. this is obviously quite offensive to me and seems unfair! we can't control the thugs - and we are a very loyal group who dearly want to have our loyalty rewarded and enjoy watching our team play good football and win. we pay big money and see little in return. it IS a tiny minority, they've just really made their presence felt over the last couple of years.

I'm sorry but I really can't agree with you on this point. I stress I know that there are a vast majority of Spurs fans who love football and want nothing to do with violence. But from the away supporters viewpoint, Spurs 'problem element' is easily on a par with Cardiff City, Stoke and Millwall at the moment. It hasn't always been like that, I know that. But the last few seasons have seen a big rise and I think Joe E a season ticket holder there agreed with me on that.



I would suggest that the Hooligans at England matches are the same people we see at club level, but it is far easier to cause trouble in another country as the police usually isn't set up to deal with it or there is no restriction on alcohol availibility. And obviously there are more hooligans in England matches than Spurs, like there are more England fans than Spurs, Arsenal or whoever.

[comme]

Spurs 'problem element' is easily on a par with Cardiff City, Stoke and Millwall at the moment.



I'm sorry but i can't agree with you on this. Milwall have improved recently (still not enough though), but Cardiff City and Stoke are still the bad boys of the football league. You question my attendance, but I'd love to know how often you have seen the Soul Crew in action.

[Rick B]

I'm sorry but i can't agree with you on this. Milwall have improved recently (still not enough though), but Cardiff City and Stoke are still the bad boys of the football league. You question my attendance, but I'd love to know how often you have seen the Soul Crew in action.

Please remember that it is a Spurs season ticket holder who is saying very similar things to me. And as for the 'soul crew', well that's an easy one. Arsenal have played at the Millenium Stadium so many times recently in the F.A.Cup Final and the Charity Shield that Ive seen what they try to do. I also have many friends who support a variety of London clubs who tell me what it is like to go there. Generally people who travel to away games get a different perspective of certain fans. That is because they are in the minority and can feel the tension and see first hand how they are treated. Those views soon get round other sets of fans if for no other reason than to give out names of 'safe pubs', or pubs to avoid.