Effects of the USSF/USNSPA disputes on the FMF?

[LMvCP]

According to the USSF's operating procedure for International Matches and Tournaments, Section 7 states the following:
For "A" Process International Matches and Tournaments only, the following shall be paid to the Federation within thirty (30) days of each International Match or International Tournament.

(A) Nine percent (9%) of the gross gate receipts of matches involving two foreign teams, but not less than $300. This includes the greater of 2%, or $200 payable to CONCACAF.

(B) Five and one quarter percent (5.25%) of the gross gate receipts of matches involving one foreign team except for those covered in subparagraph (A), but not less than $300. This includes the greater of 2%, or $200 payable to CONCACAF.

(C) Eleven and one quarter percent (11.25%) of the first $200,000 and fifteen percent (15%) of the balance of gross gate receipts after the first $200,000, but not less than $450, of matches involving a National Team. "National Team" shall be defined as a selection of players from a country who represent or are publicly represented as the national team or national selection of that country. The Federation will use these fees to cover fees due to FIFA and CONCACAF.

(D) In any International Tournament where fifty percent (50%) or more of the participating clubs are affiliated to the Federation, the applicable percentage of gross gate receipts for the International Tournament shall be five and one quarter percent (5.25%), but not less than $300. If fifty percent (50%) or more of teams are foreign, then the applicable percentage shall be nine percent (9%).

http://www.ussoccer.com/schedule/content.sps?iType=4033&icustompageid=6400
From what I have gathered, the USNSPA is mad that the USSF has 30 M in the bank and only pays the US players 7%. The USPNSA is asking for a significant increase and the USSF doesnt want to.

I have a feeling this dispute will get resolved soon, but that the USSF will pay more then what they really wanted to.

Does anyone know if these figures set forth in Article 7 are set by the USSF, CONCACAF, or FIFA?

The only thing I gathered from the CONCACAF site was the following:

Income ARTICLE 42. CONCACAF's income originates from:

h. Percentages of the gross revenue from all competitions or exhibitions within CONCACAF involving teams, national or clubs, of more than one National Association or hosted by an Association other than that of the participants.

http://www.concacaf.com/stats_regs2.asp?id=concacaf
What I gathered from FIFA statutes (XII Rights in Competition and Events - Art. 70,71; XIII Competitions - 75-77; II Definition, notification, and Registration of mstches - Art. 3-7; III Interleague and interclub matches - Art. 8; V Financial Arangements - Art. 10) are the percentages set for international A matches.

According to the definition, the Interliga is not international A matches per se. The reason I ask is because the USSF will want to generate more money and currently, the USSF makes good amounts of money off FMF teams playing in the US? Can the USSF legally jack up those percentages at a moments notice?

[sangreazul]

According to the definition, the Interliga is not international A matches per se. The reason I ask is because the USSF will want to generate more money and currently, the USSF makes good amounts of money off FMF teams playing in the US? Can the USSF legally jack up those percentages at a moments notice?
As long as they respect signed contracts, why not ??? The FMF is making a lot of money here in the US. Both entities want to make as much money as possible. Its a mutually beneficial arrangement. Neither la seleccion nor the Interliga or other friendlies eats into the US market. And obvioulsy MLS or US soccer doesn't take away from the mexican market.

I'm wondering if the FMF might be looking to see how these negotiations end up when negotiating with Mexican players. Even though la seleccion and mexican futbol generate a lot more money than the US does, do or should mexican players be paid on how much revenue they generate or on performance ??? If the US players union wins as you think might happen, could the FMF use that and say mexican national team players deserve less than they're getting now due to the rather poor performances against the US in the last decade.

[LMvCP]

As long as they respect signed contracts, why not ??? The FMF is making a lot of money here in the US. Both entities want to make as much money as possible. Its a mutually beneficial arrangement.

That's what I am assuming. The standard FIFA/CONCACAF percentage is set, but I just hope the USSF percentage isnt jacked up because the USSF will want to look for other avenues to generate income.

Neither la seleccion nor the Interliga or other friendlies eats into the US market. And obvioulsy MLS or US soccer doesn't take away from the mexican market.

Well, many think that Mexican clubs DO infact eat into the US/MLS market.

The closest thing I saw to hint that it may eat into the MLS/US market were some rating reports that I read about a year ago or or. I saw some ratings for a Toluca home match. Remember that Toluca plays thier home matches every staurday @ 3 pm CT, the same time ABC had their Saturday match. The ratings for the Toluca were higer than the ones for the ABC saturday match.

I'm wondering if the FMF might be looking to see how these negotiations end up when negotiating with Mexican players.

I think the FMF is watching it closely. I also think that they are being careful and dont want to bring it to light in the Mexican media.

This is an article from 2003 where Hugo stated that HALF of all profits should go to the players.


http://www.el-universal.com.mx/pls/impreso/noticia.html?id_nota=119331&tabla=notas

Sugiere Hugo que mitad de ganancias del Tri vayan a jugadores


El técnico de los Pumas puso el ejemplo de España donde los seleccionados se llevan la mitad de los ingresos

Notimex
El Universal online
Ciudad de México
Jueves 06 de febrero de 2003

Hugo Sánchez, técnico de Pumas de la UNAM, dijo que la FMF debe pagar los sueldos atrasados que adeudan al ex entrenador de la Selección Mexicana, Manuel Lapuente, y a los ex jugadores del equipo nacional, tal y como lo denunció el estratega del América.

.....

Refirió que cuando fue integrante de la selección "me pasó lo mismo. Yo estuve en el equipo nacional y siempre pagaban mucho tiempo después. Es una mala costumbre, pésima para nosotros y buena para ellos, así sacan más intereses, se jinetea mejor".
We have the AFP (the equivalent of the USNSPA), but they are like the polish calvalry.

I personally dont want to AFP to become a powerful organization. It will be like a Union and I am against unions. There was a time and place for them, but it seems that all they do now is have thier own personal agendas. Thats why it p1sses me off when i hear all the south americans say that Mexicans should form thier own players union. Thier unions suck and strike for anything. We dont need that.

I am not saying I am in favor of the FMF. With all the money they make, they should pay the bill on time. BUT even then, many players go the FMF HQs months later to pick up thier checks that it kind of gives the impression that the players are also responsible beause of the lenient attitude they show. We have laws and as long as you provide the document, you will get paid. Ex Puebla player, Rodrigo Ruiz Esparza, who now is a politician, is pushing for a national ministry of athletics and also want to further the professionalization of soccer in Mexico. I think its good to have those type of figures that are looking out.

[Pottermaniac]

As long as they respect signed contracts, why not ??? The FMF is making a lot of money here in the US. Both entities want to make as much money as possible. Its a mutually beneficial arrangement.

That's what I am assuming. The standard FIFA/CONCACAF percentage is set, but I just hope the USSF percentage isnt jacked up because the USSF will want to look for other avenues to generate income.

Neither la seleccion nor the Interliga or other friendlies eats into the US market. And obvioulsy MLS or US soccer doesn't take away from the mexican market.

Well, many think that Mexican clubs DO infact eat into the US/MLS market.

The closest thing I saw to hint that it may eat into the MLS/US market were some rating reports that I read about a year ago or or. I saw some ratings for a Toluca home match. Remember that Toluca plays thier home matches every staurday @ 3 pm CT, the same time ABC had their Saturday match. The ratings for the Toluca were higer than the ones for the ABC saturday match.

I'm wondering if the FMF might be looking to see how these negotiations end up when negotiating with Mexican players.

I think the FMF is watching it closely. I also think that they are being careful and dont want to bring it to light in the Mexican media.

This is an article from 2003 where Hugo stated that HALF of all profits should go to the players.


We have the AFP (the equivalent of the USNSPA), but they are like the polish calvalry.

I personally dont want to AFP to become a powerful organization. It will be like a Union and I am against unions. There was a time and place for them, but it seems that all they do now is have thier own personal agendas. Thats why it p1sses me off when i hear all the south americans say that Mexicans should form thier own players union. Thier unions suck and strike for anything. We dont need that.

I am not saying I am in favor of the FMF. With all the money they make, they should pay the bill on time. BUT even then, many players go the FMF HQs months later to pick up thier checks that it kind of gives the impression that the players are also responsible beause of the lenient attitude they show. We have laws and as long as you provide the document, you will get paid. Ex Puebla player, Rodrigo Ruiz Esparza, who now is a politician, is pushing for a national ministry of athletics and also want to further the professionalization of soccer in Mexico. I think its good to have those type of figures that are looking out.

That's ********ed up. The players should be motivated, if they dont get nothing in return, they wont feel like giving everything in the fields.

[chapulincolorado]

I personally dont want to AFP to become a powerful organization. It will be like a Union and I am against unions. There was a time and place for them, but it seems that all they do now is have thier own personal agendas. Thats why it p1sses me off when i hear all the south americans say that Mexicans should form thier own players union. Thier unions suck and strike for anything. We dont need that.

http://www.northlandposter.com/img/s13.gif

[LMvCP]

http://www.northlandposter.com/img/s13.gif
like I said, there was a time and place for them.

[chapulincolorado]

like I said, there was a time and place for them.

Well. S..t. I still love my weekends, minimum wage, and health insurance. Like in anything in this system, you need a checks and balances. Personal agendas? FMF and patrones have theirs too.

"Minimum wage means that we would pay you less if we could, but it's against the law!" --Chris Rock.

W/o labor unions or a movement, we still be getting paid in barras de pan, agua, y sal.

[Hugo Sanchez]

I don't know, man.

The union I belong to holds its meetings at El Torito every 2nd Wednesday to coerce us into "participating." That's not what gets me, though. The movement to pull the plug on certain dickheaded supervisory figures who flex their power a bit more than they are allowed is nothing but a load of hot air being blown up our asses to keep us in line, patiently awaiting change.

Change?

Fu** change.

That's why I'm either going into Management and abandoning the union, as this practice is illegal, or walking away from the company altogether.

Edison needs a few good men, ya feel me?

I sort of feel like Luis Enrique or Luis Figo.

Ramon Ramirez, even.

[LMvCP]

Well. S..t. I still love my weekends, minimum wage, and health insurance. Like in anything in this system, you need a checks and balances. Personal agendas? FMF and patrones have theirs too.

"Minimum wage means that we would pay you less if we could, but it's against the law!" --Chris Rock.

W/o labor unions or ia movement, we still be getting paid in barras de pan, agua, y sal.
Chris Rock hmmmm what a brilliant mind.

Like i said, there was a time and place for them. They played their role when it was needed, but now are obsolete and a nuisance. They do nothing but elevate the price of contracts, breed mediocrity, endorse laziness, lack professionalism and jack up the cost of of the most basic expenses.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/entertainment/8203320.htm?1c

http://www.realitytvworld.com/index/articles/story.php?s=2381

Granted, things did get resolved (if you want to think so), but this is the type of crap I am talking about.

[Hugo Sanchez]

Chris Rock hmmmm what a brilliant mind.

Like i said, there was a time and place for them. They played their role when it was needed, but now are obsolete and a nuisance. They do nothing but elevate the price of contracts, breed mediocrity, endorse laziness, lack professionalism and jack up the cost of of the most basic expenses.

Chapulin is just some pinko rat bastard.

Deja a el y su Che Latte en paz.

You are right about breeding mediocrity.

DWP (money hungry scumbags, they are), cannot fire you for poor performance in the workplace but rather situate you in a performance plan consisting of probation and/or minimal union intervening.

It would take a great deal of screwing up to get the can. That is ridiculous considering the charges being issued in southern California nowadays and the inadequately trained "professionals" out servicing these very upset customers.

You can see how retarded my local 24362623423623 is when they charge me dues for an organization setup to defend me that doesn't actually give a damn about me, the worker, so as long as I timely pay the piper.

[LMvCP]

Chapulin is just some pinko rat bastard.

Deja a el y su Che Latte en paz.

You are right about breeding mediocrity.

DWP (money hungry scumbags, they are), cannot fire you for poor performance in the workplace but rather situate you in a performance plan consisting of probation and/or minimal union intervening.

It would take a great deal of screwing up to get the can. That is ridiculous considering the charges being issued in southern California nowadays and the inadequately trained "professionals" out servicing these very upset customers.

You can see how retarded my local 24362623423623 is when they charge me dues for an organization setup to defend me that doesn't actually give a damn about me, the worker, so as long as I timely pay the piper.
the sad thing about it... i am moving to that labor union infested town :(

[sangreazul]

[QUOTE=LMvCP]
Well, many think that Mexican clubs DO infact eat into the US/MLS market.

The closest thing I saw to hint that it may eat into the MLS/US market were some rating reports that I read about a year ago or or. I saw some ratings for a Toluca home match. Remember that Toluca plays thier home matches every staurday @ 3 pm CT, the same time ABC had their Saturday match. The ratings for the Toluca were higer than the ones for the ABC saturday match.


I think of it as two different markets. From what I've seen, there is very little cross over between the countries fans (I am one of them though). If those that were watching the Toluca decided they weren't going to watch that game, I doubt that very few of them would have tuned into MLS. They might have done that the first or second year of the league though.


I think the FMF is watching it closely. I also think that they are being careful and dont want to bring it to light in the Mexican media.

This is an article from 2003 where Hugo stated that HALF of all profits should go to the players.


We have the AFP (the equivalent of the USNSPA), but they are like the polish calvalry.

I personally dont want to AFP to become a powerful organization. It will be like a Union and I am against unions. There was a time and place for them, but it seems that all they do now is have thier own personal agendas. Thats why it p1sses me off when i hear all the south americans say that Mexicans should form thier own players union. Thier unions suck and strike for anything. We dont need that.

I am not saying I am in favor of the FMF. With all the money they make, they should pay the bill on time. BUT even then, many players go the FMF HQs months later to pick up thier checks that it kind of gives the impression that the players are also responsible beause of the lenient attitude they show. We have laws and as long as you provide the document, you will get paid. Ex Puebla player, Rodrigo Ruiz Esparza, who now is a politician, is pushing for a national ministry of athletics and also want to further the professionalization of soccer in Mexico. I think its good to have those type of figures that are looking out.

This is what I don't get though. The FMF has signed huge contracts over the past ten years. A crap load of money. Are some teams losing that much where its a drain on the FMF ??? I know you believe in the market determining value (which I agree with even though you have to accept the negative consequences sometimes) but in the case of Lapuente for example, if the market determined that's what he should get paid and all of the sudden he doesn't get paid or not paid on time, does that mean that the FMF couldn't afford to pay that salary ( no knock on Lapuente intended). I'm just saying are they paying salaries that they can't afford ???? If so, it looks kind of like some of the European leagues where they fork out millions of dollars in players and coaches salaries yet accrue massive debts that forces some clubs on the brink of bankruptcy ( Atletico Madrid for example.) I don't know if a strong plyers union is a solution or not (it could make problems worst) but a better transperancy into the FMF finances would give everyone a better idea of how financially viable the league is (and how much the directivos are taking huge cuts ) although this would never happen. I'd like to know what is causing this money drain if it indeed exists ...

[chapulincolorado]

Chapulin is just some pinko rat bastard.

Deja a el y su Che Latte en paz.

Jajajaja. S..t. This coming from a guy with a picture of Sanchez from PUMAS UNAM. UNAM.....center of Leftism.

Che Latte? You don't know me and I don't know you. My "Che" is not Latte. Is Mocca con pulque.

You are right about breeding mediocrity.

DWP (money hungry scumbags, they are), cannot fire you for poor performance in the workplace but rather situate you in a performance plan consisting of probation and/or minimal union intervening.


If you want to work in a non-union work area. Go ahead! Work in the fields for $2.00 w/o a bathroom or better yet in a meat factory place where they count the minutes that it takes you to pee.

[LMvCP]

If you want to work in a non-union work area. Go ahead! Work in the fields for $2.00 w/o a bathroom or better yet in a meat factory place where they count the minutes that it takes you to pee.
I am well aware of the mistreatment that undocumented workers recieve, but I also know that unions have their own agendas aside from the workers and employers. How is it that these unions dont speak up for them? They dont want those jobs. HOW CONVENIENT!

we arent talking about illegal workers here and we arent talking about the working conditions of the industrial revolution. Like I said, there was a time and place for them.

We are talking about legal workers in the manufacturing sector, service sector (not janitorial, bread and roses was a tounchy movie but it was hollywood), and construction/engineering sector of the US.

The american worker is already protected enough from the injustices of the past. In today's society, job security is the major concern. Job Security is not an injustice. I do feel for people losing their jobs because of outsourcing or other reasons, but the last thing we need to resolve those issues is the presence of unions.

[LMvCP]

DWP (money hungry scumbags, they are), cannot fire you for poor performance in the workplace but rather situate you in a performance plan consisting of probation and/or minimal union intervening.

It would take a great deal of screwing up to get the can. That is ridiculous considering the charges being issued in southern California nowadays and the inadequately trained "professionals" out servicing these very upset customers.

When my folks were living in China with my brother, my brother told me about guy that would show up significantly late about 3-4 times out of the work week. Finally, upper management decided to can the guy. Do you know what happened?

He was given a week OFF for mental duress and his workload was reduced. You are talking about a professional engineer who when working abroad, easily clears over 100K a year (first 87K are tax free). Do you know HOW expensive that this? And to think that an employer HAS to keep him?

That guy is DEAD weight.

BUT i guess some people LOVE handouts

[chapulincolorado]

I am well aware of the mistreatment that undocumented workers recieve, but I also know that unions have their own agendas aside from the workers and employers. How is it that these unions dont speak up for them? They dont want those jobs. HOW CONVENIENT!

Have you heard of FLOC? PCUN? United Farm Workerse AFL-CIO? Have you heard of the many small independent locally organized farmworkers unions outside AFL-CIO?

Have you heard of SEIU and HERE organizing the hotel workers?

We are talking about legal workers in the manufacturing sector, service sector (not janitorial, bread and roses was a tounchy movie but it was hollywood), and construction/engineering sector of the US.
The american worker is already protected enough from the injustices of the past.

I am also talking about legal documented workers. Workers such as in Wal-Mart and Packing plants where you have managers measuring your pee time. Putting nonesensical non-existent policies to prevent women rising up in the managerial positions.

Again. You need a system of balances and checks. Guess who have more money to pay a lawyer...a multimillion dollar company or a poor schnook who barely gets $5.15 an hour?

[chapulincolorado]

Chris Rock hmmmm what a brilliant mind.


Wait now! :eek:

Whatcha got against self-made men? Isn't he an ideal in a capitalist society? Is Chris Rock Einstein? May be not. But. The fugger went from a regular joe blow in the comedy circuit and through chingos of hard work and skills has more money than probably you, me, and your buddy SangreAzul, has his own production company, a show in HBO, directed movies, has sold-out comedy concerts,and is bagging fine bootey.

Anywho.....the quote is funny....and true....

[LMvCP]

Whatcha got against self-made men?

Nothing

Isn't he an ideal in a capitalist society?

I tend to take Hollywood minds for what they are, a good luagh. NOT political guidance. Most of the time, thier "good" deeds are for self-promotional purposes and lack in sincerity.

Is Chris Rock Einstein? May be not. But. The fugger went from a regular joe blow in the comedy circuit and through chingos of hard work and skills has more money than probably you, me, and your buddy SangreAzul, has his own production company, a show in HBO, directed movies, has sold-out comedy concerts,and is bagging fine bootey.

I could give a rats ass about him

Anywho.....the quote is funny....and true....

Is it really?

[LMvCP]

Have you heard of FLOC? PCUN? United Farm Workerse AFL-CIO? Have you heard of the many small independent locally organized farmworkers unions outside AFL-CIO?

Have you heard of SEIU and HERE organizing the hotel workers?

You can name me 100 of them, they are still all the same in essence.

I am also talking about legal documented workers. Workers such as in Wal-Mart and Packing plants where you have managers measuring your pee time.

And I am talking about not being able to fire a guy that takes his newspaper into the workplace because reads half of the day. I am talking about an employer having to spend thousands of dollars on software programs to ensure lazy joe doesnt SPEND 5 hours checking out fantasy football scores.

Putting nonesensical non-existent policies to prevent women rising up in the managerial positions.

Can you physically prove a glass cieling exist? UNLESS they say it?

Again. You need a system of balances and checks.

I agree, but Unions are not the means anymore. They are obsolete.

Guess who have more money to pay a lawyer...a multimillion dollar company or a poor schnook who barely gets $5.15 an hour?

So punish the guy with more money then right?

Who protects the employer? Who protects the employee?

If the employee wins in a legal court, most likely he/she will recieve compesnations

If the employer wins in a legal court, does he recieve money to cover expenses and legal fees?

where are the checks and balances there?

[chapulincolorado]

Whatcha got against self-made men?

Nothing

Uh-hu.... :rolleyes:

Is it really?

Yep.....that's why we have minimum wage laws.