South America vs. Europe - Statistical Overview

[Gregoriak]

From time to time the debate arises which continent is "better" at football, and there is no better stage than the World Cup to verify which continent has the edge. I`ve looked at the World Cup results since 1930 and came up with some calculations.

South America vs. Europe

181 World Cup games:
73 won by South Americans
65 won by Europeans
43 drawn
Points: 189-173 (+16) for South America
Goals: 268:256 (+12) for South America

-> Overall advantage South America, but...

...if Brazil & Argentina as well as Germany & Italy are excluded (to find out how the less successful nations of each federation did against each others), the results would look like this:

South America vs. Europe – “Duel of the Minnows”

South America w/o Brazil & Argentina vs. Europe w/o Germany & Italy

60 games:
17 won by South Americans
28 won by Europeans
15 drawn
Points: 49-71 (-22) against South America
Goals: 81:106 (-25) against South America

->Disadvantage South American “Minnows”

Conclusion: due to the overwhelming superiority of Brazil, South America comes out a close winner over Europe. Yet without the power of Brazil and Argentina helping them out, South America is no match for the Europeans, even without Germany and Italy. :p :D

[Gregoriak]

SOUTH AMERICANS vs. EUROPEANS

Argentina
1930 1-0 France
1930 2-3 Sweden
1958 1-3 West Germany
1958 3-1 Northern Ireland
1958 1-6 CSSR
1962 1-0 Bulgaria
1962 1-3 England
1962 0-0 Hungary
1966 2-1 Spain
1966 0-0 West Germany
1966 2-0 Switzerland
1966 0-1 England
1974 2-3 Poland
1974 1-1 Italy
1974 0-4 Netherlands
1974 1-1 East Germany
1978 2-1 Hungary
1978 2-1 France
1978 0-1 Italy
1978 2-0 Poland
1982 0-1 Belgium
1982 4-1 Hungary
1982 1-2 Italy
1986 1-1 Italy
1986 2-0 Bulgaria
1986 2-1 England
1986 2-0 Belgium
1986 3-2 West Germany
1990 2-0 USSR
1990 1-1 Romania
1990 0-0 Yugoslavia
1990 1-1 Italy
1990 0-1 West Germany
1994 4-0 Greece
1994 0-2 Bulgaria
1994 2-3 Romania
1998 1-0 Croatia
1998 2-2 England
1998 1-2 Netherlands
2002 0-1 England
2002 1-1 Sweden
41 games: 16 won-10 drawn-15 lost
42-40 points (+2)
54:52 goals (+2)
39 % won
37 % lost

Bolivia
1930 0-4 Yugoslavia
1994 0-1 Germany
1994 1-3 Spain
3 games: 0W-0D-3L
0-6 points (-6)
1:8 goals (-7)
100 % lost

Brazil
1930 1-2 Yugoslavia
1934 1-3 Spain
1938 1-1 Czecheslovakia
1938 2-1 Czecheslovakia
1938 6-5 Poland
1938 1-2 Italy
1938 4-2 Sweden
1950 2-2 Switzerland
1950 2-0 Yugoslavia
1950 7-1 Sweden
1950 6-1 Spain
1954 1-1 Yugoslavia
1954 2-4 Hungary
1958 3-0 Austria
1958 0-0 England
1958 2-0 USSR
1958 1-0 Wales
1958 5-2 France
1958 5-2 Sweden
1962 0-0 CSSR
1962 2-1 Spain
1962 3-1 England
1962 3-1 CSSR
1966 2-0 Bulgaria
1966 1-3 Hungary
1966 1-3 Portugal
1970 4-1 CSSR
1970 1-0 England
1970 3-2 Romania
1970 4-1 Italy
1974 0-0 Yugoslavia
1974 0-0 Scotland
1974 1-0 East Germany
1974 0-2 Netherlands
1974 0-1 Poland
1978 1-1 Sweden
1978 0-0 Spain
1978 1-0 Austria
1978 3-1 Poland
1978 2-1 Italy
1982 2-1 USSR
1982 4-1 Scotland
1982 2-3 Italy
1986 1-0 Spain
1986 3-0 Northern Ireland
1986 4-0 Poland
1986 1-1 France
1990 2-1 Sweden
1990 1-0 Scotland
1994 2-0 USSR
1994 1-1 Sweden
1994 3-2 Netherlands
1994 1-0 Sweden
1994 0-0 Italy
1998 2-1 Scotland
1998 1-2 Norway
1998 3-2 Denmark
1998 1-1 Netherlands
1998 0-3 France
2002 2-0 Belgium
2002 2-1 England
2002 2-0 Germany
62 games: 38W-13D-11L
89-35 points (+54)
124:68 goals (+56)
61 % won
18 % lost

Chile
1930 1-0 France
1950 0-2 England
1950 0-2 Spain
1962 3-1 Switzerland
1962 2-0 Italy
1962 0-2 West Germany
1962 2-1 USSR
1962 1-0 Yugoslavia
1966 0-2 Italy
1966 1-2 USSR
1974 0-1 West Germany
1974 1-1 East Germany
1982 0-1 Austria
1982 1-4 West Germany
1998 2-2 Italy
1998 1-1 Austria
16 games: 5W-3D-8L
13-19 points (-6)
15:22 goals (-7)
31 % won
50 % lost

Colombia
1962 4-4 USSR
1962 0-5 Yugoslavia
1990 0-1 Yugoslavia
1990 1-1 West Germany
1994 1-3 Romania
1994 2-0 Switzerland
1998 0-1 Romania
1998 0-2 England
8 games: 1W-2D-5L
4-12 points (-8)
8:17 goals (-9)
13 % won
63 % lost

Ecuador
2002 0-2 Italy
2002 1-0 Croatia
2 games: 1W-0D-1L
2-2 points (0)
1:2 goals (-1)

Paraguay
1930 1-0 Belgium
1950 2-2 Sweden
1950 0-2 Italy
1958 3-7 France
1958 3-2 Scotland
1958 3-3 Yugoslavia
1986 2-2 Belgium
1986 0-3 England
1998 0-0 Bulgaria
1998 0-0 Spain
1998 0-1 France
2002 1-3 Spain
2002 0-1 Germany
13 games: 2W-5D-6L
9-17 points (-8)
15:26 goals (-11)
15 % won
46 % lost

Peru
1930 0-3 Romania
1970 3-2 Bulgaria
1970 1-3 West Germany
1978 3-1 Scotland
1978 0-0 Netherlands
1978 0-1 Poland
1982 1-1 Italy
1982 1-5 Poland
8 games: 2W-2D-4L
6-10 points (-4)
9:16 goals (-7)
25 % won
50 % lost

Uruguay
1930 4-0 Romania
1930 6-1 Yugoslavia
1950 2-2 Spain
1950 3-2 Sweden
1954 2-0 CSSR
1954 7-0 Scotland
1954 4-2 England
1954 2-4 Hungary
1954 1-3 Austria
1962 1-3 Yugoslavia
1962 1-2 USSR
1966 0-0 England
1966 2-1 France
1966 0-4 West Germany
1970 0-0 Italy
1970 1-0 USSR
1970 0-1 West Germany
1974 0-2 Netherlands
1974 1-1 Bulgaria
1974 0-3 Sweden
1986 1-1 West Germany
1986 1-6 Denmark
1986 0-0 Scotland
1990 0-0 Spain
1990 1-3 Belgium
1990 0-2 Italy
2002 1-2 Denmark
2002 0-0 France
28 games: 8W-8D-12L
24-32 points (-8)
41:45 goals (-4)
29 % won
43 % lost

[Gregoriak]

MISCELLANEOUS RECORDS of South Americans vs. Europeans


Longest Unbeaten Run

12 games, Brazil, 1986-1998 [21-3 points, 21:6 goals]
11 games, Brazil, 1958-1966 [20-2, 26:7]
9 games, Argentina, 1986-1990 [14-4, 14:6]
7 games, Uruguay, 1930-1954 [13-1, 28:7]
7 games, Brazil, 1970-1974 [12-2, 13:4]
7 games, Brazil, 1978-1982 [12-2, 13:5]
6 games, Brazil, 1938-1954 [10-2, 22:7]


Longest Run without a Win

12 games, Uruguay, 1970-2002 [5-19, 5:21]
8 games, Paraguay, 1958-2002 [4-12, 6:13]
8 games, Chile, 1966-1998 [3-13, 6:14]
5 games, Colombia, 1962-1990 [2-8, 6:14]
5 games, Argentina, 1966-1974 [2-8, 4:10]


Most Consecutive Wins

5 wins, Brazil, 1978-1982 [10-0, 12:4]
5 wins, Argentina, 1986-1990 [10-0, 11:3]
4 wins, Uruguay, 1950-1954 [8-0, 16:4]
4 wins, Brazil, 1958 [8-0, 13:4]
4 wins, Brazil, 1962-1966 [8-0, 10:3]


Most Consecutive Defeats

4 defeats, Uruguay, 1954-1962 [0-8, 5:14]
3 defeats, Bolivia, 1930-1994 [0-6, 1:8]
3 defeats, Chile, 1966-1974 [0-6, 1:5]
3 defeats, Uruguay, 1990-2002 [0-6, 2:7]
3 defeats, Paraguay, 1998-2002 [0-6, 1:5]


Most Games

62 Brazil
41 Argentina
29 Uruguay
16 Chile
13 Paraguay


Most Wins

38 Brazil
16 Argentina
8 Uruguay
5 Chile


Most Defeats

15 Argentina
13 Uruguay
11 Brazil
8 Chile


Most Consecutive Games without a Goal Scored

4 games, Paraguay, 1986-1998 [0:4]


Most Consecutive Games without Conceding a Goal

4 games, Brazil, 1958 [6:0]
3 games, Brazil, 1974 [1:0]
3 games, Brazil, 1986 [8:0]


Highest Wins

Uruguay 7-0 Scotland (1954)
Brazil 7-1 Sweden (1950)
Brazil 6-1 Spain (1950)
Uruguay 4-0 Romania (1930)
Brazil 4-0 Poland (1986)
Argentina 4-0 Greece (1986)


Highest Wins on European Soil

Uruguay 7-0 Scotland (1954)
Brazil 5-2 France (1958)
Brazil 5-2 Sweden (1958)


Highest Defeats

Argentina 1-6 CSSR (1958)
Uruguay 1-6 Denmark (1986)
Colombia 0-5 Yugoslavia (1962)
Peru 1-5 Poland (1982)


Highest Defeats on Latin American Soil

Uruguay 1-6 Denmark (1986)
Colombia 0-5 Yugoslavia (1962)
Bolivia 0-4 Yugoslavia (1930)


Highest Winning Percentage

61 % Brazil
39 % Argentina
31 % Chile
29 % Uruguay
25 % Peru


Highest Losing Percentage

100 % Bolivia
63 % Colombia
50 % Chile
50 % Peru
46 % Paraguay

[Gregoriak]

EUROPEANS vs. SOUTH AMERICANS


Austria
1954 3-1 Uruguay
1958 0-3 Brazil
1978 0-1 Brazil
1982 1-0 Chile
1998 1-1 Chile
5 games: 2W-1D-2L
5-5 points (0)
5:6 goals (-1)
40% won
40% lost

Belgium
1930 0-1 Paraguay
1982 1-0 Argentina
1986 2-2 Paraguay
1986 0-2 Argentina
1990 3-1 Uruguay
2002 0-2 Brazil
6 games: 2W-1D-3L
5-7 points (-2)
6:8 goals (-2)
33 % won
50 % lost

Bulgaria
1962 1-4 Argentina
1966 0-2 Brazil
1970 2-3 Peru
1974 1-1 Uruguay
1986 0-2 Argentina
1994 2-0 Argentina
1998 0-0 Paraguay
7 games: 1W-2D-4L
4-10 points (-6)
6:12 goals (-6)
14 % won
57 % lost

Croatia
1998 0-1 Argentina
2002 0-1 Ecuador
2 games: 0W-0D-2L
0-4 points (-4)
0:2 goals (-2)

Czecheslovakia / CSSR
1938 1-1 Brazil
1938 1-2 Brazil
1954 0-2 Uruguay
1958 6-1 Argentina
1962 0-0 Brazil
1962 1-3 Brazil
1970 1-4 Brazil
7 games: 1W-2D-4L
4-10 points (-6)
10:13 goals (-3)
14 % won
57 % lost

Denmark
1986 6-1 Uruguay
1998 2-3 Brazil
2002 2-1 Uruguay
3 games: 2W-0D-1L
4-2 points (+2)
10:5 goals (+5)
67 % won
33 % lost

East Germany
1974 1-1 Chile
1974 0-1 Brazil
1974 1-1 Argentina
3 games: 0W-2D-1L
2-4 points (-2)
2:3 goals (-1)
0 % won
33 % lost

England
1950 2-0 Chile
1954 2-4 Uruguay
1958 0-0 Brazil
1962 3-1 Argentina
1962 1-3 Brazil
1966 0-0 Uruguay
1966 1-0 Argentina
1970 0-1 Brazil
1986 3-0 Paraguay
1986 1-2 Argentina
1998 2-0 Colombia
1998 2-2 Argentina
2002 1-0 Argentina
2002 1-2 Brazil
14 games: 6W-3D-5L
15-13 points (+2)
19:15 goals (+4)
43 % won
36 % lost

France
1930 0-1 Argentina
1930 0-1 Chile
1958 7-3 Paraguay
1958 2-5 Brazil
1966 1-2 Uruguay
1978 1-2 Argentina
1986 1-1 Brazil
1998 1-0 Paraguay
1998 3-0 Brazil
2002 0-0 Uruguay
10 games: 3W-2D-5L
8-12 points (-4)
16:15 goals (+1)
30 % won
50 % lost

(West) Germany
1958 3-1 Argentina
1962 2-0 Chile
1966 0-0 Argentina
1966 4-0 Uruguay
1970 3-1 Peru
1970 1-0 Uruguay
1974 1-0 Chile
1982 4-1 Chile
1986 1-1 Uruguay
1986 2-3 Argentina
1990 1-1 Colombia
1990 1-0 Argentina
1994 1-0 Bolivia
2002 1-0 Paraguay
2002 0-2 Brazil
15 games: 10W-3D-2L
23-7 points (+16)
25:10 goals (+15)
67 % won
13 % lost

Greece
1994 0-4 Argentina
1 game: 0W-0D-1L
0-2 points (-2)
0:4 goals (-4)

Hungary
1954 4-2 Brazil
1954 4-2 Uruguay
1962 0-0 Argentina
1966 3-1 Brazil
1978 1-2 Argentina
1982 1-4 Argentina
6 games: 3W-1D-2L
7-5 points (+2)
13:11 goals (+2)
50 % won
33 % lost

Italy
1938 2-1 Brazil
1950 2-0 Paraguay
1962 0-2 Chile
1966 2-0 Chile
1970 0-0 Uruguay
1970 1-4 Brazil
1974 1-1 Argentina
1978 1-0 Argentina
1978 1-2 Brazil
1982 1-1 Peru
1982 2-1 Argentina
1982 3-2 Brazil
1986 1-1 Argentina
1990 2-0 Uruguay
1990 1-1 Argentina
1994 0-0 Brazil
1998 2-2 Chile
2002 2-0 Ecuador
18 games: 8W-7D-3L
23-13 points (+10)
25:19 goals (+6)
44 % won
17 % lost

Netherlands
1974 2-0 Uruguay
1974 4-0 Argentina
1974 2-0 Brazil
1978 0-0 Peru
1978 1-3 Argentina
1994 2-3 Brazil
1998 2-1 Argentina
1998 1-1 Brazil
8 games: 4W-2D-2L
10-6 points (+4)
14:8 goals (+6)
50 % won
25 % lost

Northern Ireland
1958 1-3 Argentina
1986 0-3 Brazil
2 games: 0W-0D-2L
0-4 points (-4)
1:6 goals (-5)

Norway
1998 2-1 Brazil
1 game: 1W-0D-0L
2-0 points (+2)
2:1 goals (+1)

Poland
1938 5-6 Brazil
1974 3-2 Argentina
1974 1-0 Brazil
1978 0-2 Argentina
1978 1-0 Peru
1978 1-3 Brazil
1982 5-1 Peru
1986 0-4 Brazil
8 games: 4W-0D-4L
8-8 points (0)
16:19 goals (-3)
50 % won
50 % lost

Portugal
1966 3-1 Brazil
1 game: 1W-0D-0L
2-0 points (+2)
3:1 goals (+2)

Romania
1930 3-1 Peru
1930 0-4 Uruguay
1970 2-3 Brazil
1990 1-1 Argentina
1994 3-1 Colombia
1994 3-2 Argentina
1998 1-0 Colombia
7 games: 4W-1D-2L
9-5 points (+4)
13:12 goals (+1)
57 % won
29 % lost

USSR / Russia
1958 0-2 Brazil
1962 4-4 Colombia
1962 2-1 Uruguay
1962 1-2 Chile
1966 2-1 Chile
1970 0-1 Uruguay
1982 1-2 Brazil
1990 0-2 Argentina
1994 0-2 Brazil
9 games: 2W-1D-6L
5-13 points (-8)
10:17 goals (-7)
22 % won
67 % lost

Scotland
1954 0-7 Uruguay
1958 2-3 Paraguay
1974 0-0 Brazil
1978 1-3 Peru
1982 1-4 Brazil
1986 0-0 Uruguay
1990 0-1 Brazil
1998 1-2 Brazil
8 games: 0W-2D-6L
2-14 points (-12)
5:20 goals (-15)
0 % won
75 % lost

Spain
1950 2-0 Chile
1950 2-2 Uruguay
1950 1-6 Brazil
1962 1-2 Brazil
1966 1-2 Argentina
1978 0-0 Brazil
1986 0-1 Brazil
1990 0-0 Uruguay
1994 3-1 Bolivia
1998 0-0 Paraguay
2002 3-1 Paraguay
11 games: 3W-4D-4L
10-12 points (-2)
13:15 goals (-2)
28 % won
36 % lost

Sweden
1934 3-2 Argentina
1938 2-4 Brazil
1950 2-2 Paraguay
1950 1-7 Brazil
1950 2-3 Uruguay
1958 2-5 Brazil
1970 1-0 Uruguay
1974 3-0 Uruguay
1978 1-1 Brazil
1990 1-2 Brazil
1994 1-1 Brazil
1994 0-1 Brazil
2002 1-1 Argentina
13 games: 3W-4D-6L
10-16 points (-6)
20:29 goals (-9)
23 % won
46 % lost

Switzerland
1950 2-2 Brazil
1962 1-3 Chile
1966 0-2 Argentina
1994 0-2 Colombia
4 games: 0W-1D-3L
1-7 points (-6)
3:9 goals (-6)
0 % won
75 % lost

Wales
1958 0-1 Brazil
1 game: 0W-0D-1L
0-2 points (-2)
0-1 goals (-1)

Yugoslavia
1930 2-1 Brazil
1930 4-0 Bolivia
1930 1-6 Uruguay
1950 0-2 Brazil
1954 1-1 Brazil
1958 3-3 Paraguay
1962 3-1 Uruguay
1962 5-0 Colombia
1974 0-0 Brazil
1990 1-0 Colombia
1990 0-0 Argentina
11 games: 5W-4D-2L
14-8 points (+6)
20:14 goals (+6)
45 % won
18 % lost

[Gregoriak]

MISCELLANEOUS RECORDS of Europeans vs. South Americans


Longest Unbeaten Run

9 games, West Germany, 1958-1982 [16-2 points, 19:4 goals]
9 games, Italy, 1982-2002 [13-5, 16:8]
7 games, Yugoslavia, 1954-1990 [10-4, 13:5]


Longest Run without a Win

8 games, Scotland, 1954-1998 [2-14, 5:20]
5 games, Bulgaria, 1962-1986 [1-9, 4:12]
5 games, Sweden, 1978-2002 [3-7, 4:6]


Most Consecutive Wins

5 wins, West Germany, 1966-1982 [10-0, 13:2]
3 wins, Netherlands, 1974 [6-0, 8:0]
3 wins, Germany, 1990-2002 [6-0, 3:0]
3 wins, Romania, 1994-1998 [6-0, 7:3]


Most Consecutive Defeats

4 defeats, USSR/Russia, 1970-1994 [0-8, 1:7]
3 defeats, Bulgaria, 1962-1970 [0-6, 3:9]
3 defeats, France, 1958-1978 [0-6, 4:9]
3 defeats, Sweden, 1950-1958 [0-6, 5:15]
3 defeats, Switzerland, 1962-1994 [0-6, 1:7]
3 defeats, Spain, 1950-1966 [0-6, 3:10]


Most Games

18 Italy
15 (West) Germany
14 England
13 Sweden
11 Yugoslavia
11 Spain
10 France


Most Wins

10 (West) Germany
8 Italy
6 England
5 Yugoslavia
4 Romania
4 Netherlands
4 Poland


Most Defeats

6 USSR / Russia
6 Scotland
6 Sweden
5 England
5 France


Most Consecutive Games without a Goal Scored

3 games, Spain, 1978-1990 [0:1]


Most Consecutive Games without Conceding a Goal

4 games, Yugoslavia, 1962-1990 [4:0]
4 games Netherlands, 1974-1978 [8:0]
3 games, West Germany, 1962-1966 [6:0]
3 games, Germany, 1990-2002 [3:0]
3 games, France, 1998-2002 [4:0]


Highest Wins

CSSR 6-1 Argentina (1958)
Denmark 6-1 Uruguay (1986)
Yugoslavia 5-0 Colombia (1962)
Poland 5-1 Peru (1982)
France 7-3 Paraguay (1958)
West Germany 4-0 Uruguay (1966)
Netherlands 4-0 Argentina (1974)


Highest Wins on Latin American Soil

Denmark 6-1 Uruguay (1986)
Yugoslavia 5-0 Colombia (1962)


Highest Defeats

Scotland 0-7 Uruguay (1954)
Sweden 1-7 Brazil (1950)
Yugoslavia 1-6 Uruguay (1930)
Spain 1-6 Brazil (1950)


Highest Defeats on European Soil

Scotland 0-7 Uruguay (1954)
France 2-5 Brazil (1958)
Sweden 2-5 Brazil (1958)


Highest Winning Percentage

67 % (West) Germany
67 % Denmark
57 % Romania
50 % Netherlands
50 % Hungary
50 % Poland


Highest Losing Percentage

75 % Scotland
75 % Switzerland
67 % USSR / Russia
57 % CSSR / Czecheslovakia
57 % Bulgaria

[neovox]

From time to time the debate arises which continent is "better" at football, and there is no better stage than the World Cup to verify which continent has the edge. I`ve looked at the World Cup results since 1930 and came up with some calculations.

South America vs. Europe

181 World Cup games:
73 won by South Americans
65 won by Europeans
43 drawn
Points: 189-173 (+16) for South America
Goals: 268:256 (+12) for South America

-> Overall advantage South America, but...

...if Brazil & Argentina as well as Germany & Italy are excluded (to find out how the less successful nations of each federation did against each others), the results would look like this:

South America vs. Europe – “Duel of the Minnows”

South America w/o Brazil & Argentina vs. Europe w/o Germany & Italy

60 games:
17 won by South Americans
28 won by Europeans
15 drawn
Points: 49-71 (-22) against South America
Goals: 81:106 (-25) against South America

->Disadvantage South American “Minnows”

Conclusion: due to the overwhelming superiority of Brazil, South America comes out a close winner over Europe. Yet without the power of Brazil and Argentina helping them out, South America is no match for the Europeans, even without Germany and Italy. :p :D

Very good work! You managed to use numbers in the right way in order to give a shape to a common feeling: South America has more depth and talent than Europe. :D

As for your conclusion, Brazil, besides the fact that is a football nation, is also a large part of South America. And will always be. And, well... will always play football too. So it's a dead end.

To be frank, I'm always surprised by people saying that South American nations are this or that without Brazil or Argentina "helping" them. We ARE them. :)

[Aguante Bielsa]

South America is better than Europe. Period.
The results of your analysis only show that "power" is more equally distributed in Europe than in South America. Big deal.

Congratulations on your research, by the way.

[argentine soccer fan]

Conclusion: due to the overwhelming superiority of Brazil, South America comes out a close winner over Europe. Yet without the power of Brazil and Argentina helping them out, South America is no match for the Europeans, even without Germany and Italy. :p :D

That is very good research, but I have a problem with your conclusion. You are taking out the top two South American and the top two European teams, and that is not a fair comparison. What you are doing is taking out the top 23 percent of South American teams and only about the top 6 percent of European teams which made the world cup.

The fair way to make a comparison would be, if you take out the top 23 percent of South American teams (2 out of 9 aproximately), take also out the top 23 percent of European teams (6 out of 26, aproximately).

So, in addition to Germany and Italy, you should take out four more top European teams. I'm not sure which ones. Lets say we take them out based on their record against South America, rather than overall WC record. So we could take out England, Spain, Yugoslavia and Romania. How would then the numbers look? I think they'd probably be almost even. Let's see:

Against South American teams other than Brazil and Argentina:

(W-D-L)

Austria 2-1-1
Belgium 1-1-1
Bulgaria 0-2-1
Croatia 0-0-1
Czech 0-0-1
Denmark 2-0-0
France 2-1-2
Hungary 1-0-0
Netherlands 1-1-0
Poland 2-0-0
USSR 2-1-2
Scotland 0-1-3
Sweden 2-1-1
Switzerland 0-0-2

Total: 15 wins, 9 draws, 15 losses.

*The numbers don't add up exactly to 26 teams, because some Euroopean nations didn't play against a S.A. country other than Argentina or Brazil. I also took out East Germany as part of Germany, but it wouldn't make a difference, because they only had a draw and no wins or losses.

It is possible that I made a mistake. I made quick calculations on my head, based on your previous post which has all the scores. But I am sure somebody can recheck it, and that any variance would be minor. So, it is clear that the results do tend to even out for the 'minnows', once you take out an equivalent number of top teams, percentage-wise, from each continent. Which leads me to believe that a more logical conclusion would be that South America is competitive with Europe at all levels.

This doesn't even include the fact that there are many more European weaker 'minnows' who are not even represented because they never even made it to the World Cup, while only one South American country, Venezuela, is not represented.

[Latin Pride]

Sweden
1934 3-2 Argentina
1938 2-4 Brazil
1950 2-2 Paraguay
1950 1-7 Brazil
1950 2-3 Uruguay
1958 2-5 Brazil
1970 1-0 Uruguay
1974 3-0 Uruguay
1978 1-1 Brazil
1990 1-2 Brazil
1994 1-1 Brazil
1994 0-1 Brazil
2002 1-1 Argentina
13 games: 3W-4D-6L
10-16 points (-6)
20:29 goals (-9)
23 % won
46 % lost


Srry u forgot

2002 1-2 Paraguay

And thats 1 more point for South America :D

[Latin Pride]

Chile
1930 1-0 France
1950 0-2 England
1950 0-2 Spain
1962 3-1 Switzerland
1962 2-0 Italy
1962 0-2 West Germany
1962 2-1 USSR
1962 1-0 Yugoslavia
1966 0-2 Italy
1966 1-2 USSR
1974 0-1 West Germany
1974 1-1 East Germany
1982 0-1 Austria
1982 1-4 West Germany
1998 2-2 Italy
1998 1-1 Austria
16 games: 5W-3D-8L
13-19 points (-6)
15:22 goals (-7)
31 %

U also forgot 2001 1-2 France

Theres another one for South America, wow u really seem to be favoring the Euros, huh?

[deejay]

Not to mention that he conveniently does not take into account that most World Cup games were played in Europe. Or that Europe has a lot more money and a lot more population.

Those advantages become even more lopsided when you take away Brazil and Argentina the richest, most populous countries of South America.

[Latin Pride]

[QUOTE=Latin Pride]Chile
1930 1-0 France
1950 0-2 England
1950 0-2 Spain
1962 3-1 Switzerland
1962 2-0 Italy
1962 0-2 West Germany
1962 2-1 USSR
1962 1-0 Yugoslavia
1966 0-2 Italy
1966 1-2 USSR
1974 0-1 West Germany
1974 1-1 East Germany
1982 0-1 Austria
1982 1-4 West Germany
1998 2-2 Italy
1998 1-1 Austria
16 games: 5W-3D-8L
13-19 points (-6)
15:22 goals (-7)
31 %

U also forgot 2001 1-2 France

Srry i meant 2-1 France.. yeah Chile did beat France in 2001, funny how u forgot that

[Spartak]

U also forgot 2001 1-2 France

Srry i meant 2-1 France.. yeah Chile did beat France in 2001, funny how u forgot that
This game as well as the Sweden game you mention above were not in the World Cup. And this is what the analysis is about.

[nicephoras]

That is very good research, but I have a problem with your conclusion. You are taking out the top two South American and the top two European teams, and that is not a fair comparison. What you are doing is taking out the top 23 percent of South American teams and only about the top 6 percent of European teams which made the world cup.

But that's a poor comparison, since Europe has so many tiny countries, as opposed to South America. Lets face it, Venezuela is no Luxembourg.

[argentine soccer fan]

But that's a poor comparison, since Europe has so many tiny countries, as opposed to South America. Lets face it, Venezuela is no Luxembourg.

But Gregoriak's analysis does not include most of the small countries, the Luxembourgs, Andorras and Liechesteins. It just covers the nations which were good enough to make it to the World Cup.

Without looking it up, I don't think any of the European nations which Gregoriak used have as small a population as Uruguay, which is a bit over Three Million people. I think Scotland and Denmark might be in the neighborhood of Paraguay, at over Five Million. At the other end of the spectrum, no South American country except Brazil comes close to matching the population of the likes of Germany, France, England, Italy and of course Russia.

But my point was not about size of the countries. I think Gregoriak was defining as 'Minnow' every country in the continent which played at the WC, except the top two, and on that basis Europe had the advantage as far as 'minnows' go. But my argument was that it is more logical and mathematically correct to define the nations on a percentage basis, based on the number of countries from each continent which played and faced each other at the world cup. If we take out the top two South American nations, then we should take out an equivalent number percentage-wise of European nations. So, we are comparing apples with apples. By doing this, we see that the won-loss records are remarkably even.

PS: Ok, I missed Wales and N.Ireland, which I think have a smaller population than Uruguay, but they didn't play anybody other than Argentina or Brazil, so they were not a factor in my 'minnow' analysis.

[Chinky24]

The Practical Approach

Let's settle this via a game of all-stars from both continent's best players!

South American squad:

---------------------Dida(?)---------------------
----Cafu-------------Ayala-------R.Carlos/Heinze-
----------------Mascherano/Edu(?)--------------
-----Riquelme? (anyone? lol)-----------Solari-----
----------Aimar/Kaka------------Ronaldinho------
---Ronaldo------------------Adriano/Crespo(?)---

European squad:

-------------------Buffon/Kahn------------------
------------Nesta-----Ferdinand/Carvalho--------
------Thuram-------------------Maldini/A.Cole---
------------------Gerrard/Vieira------------------
---C.Ronaldo---------Lampard----------Robben---
-------------------Henry/Totti-------------------
--------------Shevchenko/Nistelrooy-------------

[Chinky24]

Sh!t I thought it was all over for South America as soon as I started posting this, then I realized that Ronaldinho would tear Lampard and Gerrard apart :(

However, I think Robben will be devastating on the wing, combined with Henry providing for Shevchenko. If replaced, Totti can feed to RVN or Sheva, both of whom can poach (more of a Nistelrooy quality lol).

I think Thuram is aging, but I don't know anyone considerably better at his job, and I also believe C. Ronaldo needs to be replaced, but no one has that kind of speed and panache on his zone.

I imagine Ronnie and Kaka playing tandem, each supporting the other and his complementary striker, but I'm not sure about Riquelme, so Robben might stick his head in there and play to Lampard.

Sorry to bring this thread of statistical analysis off topic :( I couldn't resist. Comments are more than welcome.

[condor11]

The Practical Approach

Let's settle this via a game of all-stars from both continent's best players!

South American squad:

---------------------Dida(?)---------------------
----Cafu-------------Ayala-------R.Carlos/Heinze-
----------------Mascherano/Edu(?)--------------
-----Riquelme? (anyone? lol)-----------Solari-----
----------Aimar/Kaka------------Ronaldinho------
---Ronaldo------------------Adriano/Crespo(?)---

European squad:

-------------------Buffon/Kahn------------------
------------Nesta-----Ferdinand/Carvalho--------
------Thuram-------------------Maldini/A.Cole---
------------------Gerrard/Vieira------------------
---C.Ronaldo---------Lampard----------Robben---
-------------------Henry/Totti-------------------
--------------Shevchenko/Nistelrooy-------------

how does a make-believe game that will never take place settle anything? :confused:

[Chinky24]

How does an analysis of past history, players, and records settle a question that has a constantly changing answer?

However, my idea does have merit if one can convince the clubs and national teams to release their players for 2-3 months, have them train together, and field each other...

[condor11]

How does an analysis of past history, players, and records settle a question that has a constantly changing answer?

However, my idea does have merit if one can convince the clubs and national teams to release their players for 2-3 months, have them train together, and field each other...

at least the analysis of past matches are based on the fact that these matches were played so there is a known result.

This isnt the case for your idea, as it has never taken place