'The All-Time World Cup'

[Gregoriak]

There seems to be an interesting project going on at Planet World Cup. You may check it out:

http://www.planetworldcup.com/atwc/atwc_intro.html

[minorthreat]

Some of the all-time squads that they're using baffle me in their selections. Brazil of course have the largest talent pool by far, but does that really mean that there's no room for Falcao and Socrates?

And Christian ********ing Vieri on an all-time Italy list? AHEAD of Rossi and Bettega? You must be joking.

[AndyMead]

"Coby" Jones?

Mexico and the United States placed in the same group?

I really am pretty sure that I don't want to go any further.

Yikes - and a Bruce Arena coached team played a 4-3-3 formation vs Spain in Madrid?

Yeah, right.

[comme]

A very interesting little project. There is a book available in England which tries to do the same thing.

As ever, picking the squads appears a very difficult exercise. The England squad is very surprising to me, but these are unenviable tasks. No matter who you pick, someone always has an alternative.

[AndyMead]

It's a nice idea, but even FIFA does a better job of splitting up countries into groups. I mean that there are two groups that have 4 UEFA teams and 3 groups with only 2 UEFA teams. While we can quibble as to whether 23 of 32 teams should be from UEFA, that's not my point.

The fact that 6 of the 9 non-UEFA teams are placed in just three groups is a bit silly. The fact that both CONCACAF teams are in the same group is even more so.

[comme]

I can see your point, but in fairness (I promise I don't have anything to do with that site) the USA, Mexico, South Korea, Paraguay, Chile, and Cameroon are 6 of the worst 10 line ups there. I think what they have tried to do is simply get a balance of the strong and weak.

[AndyMead]

I can see your point, but in fairness (I promise I don't have anything to do with that site) the USA, Mexico, South Korea, Paraguay, Chile, and Cameroon are 6 of the worst 10 line ups there. I think what they have tried to do is simply get a balance of the strong and weak.

Jeff Agoos on the US all-time WC roster? He didn't play a minute in France 98, and was arguably one of the worst players to take the field in Korea/Japan 02.

It's a nice idea - and any choices they made would be open to debate and discussion, but it looks like they didn't even try to think out some of the very basic things.

But then, I'm pretty sure their audience is European - or more likely English, so that's how things are going to be slanted.

[Gregoriak]

Well it`s far from perfect but still interesting enough. I think is being done by a Norwegian and a Dutchman.

[argentine soccer fan]

It is impossible to attempt something like this without creating controversy. But, they could have done worse when it comes to Argentina. My biggest complain is the absense of Enrique Omar Sivori. Surely Burruchaga or Veron could have given way to 'El Cabezon' in the squad.

[Gregoriak]

It is impossible to attempt something like this without creating controversy. But, they could have done worse when it comes to Argentina. My biggest complain is the absense of Enrique Omar Sivori. Surely Burruchaga or Veron could have given way to 'El Cabezon' in the squad.

You`re right about Sivori. I can only guess, but maybe because he has never played for Argentina at a World Cup? He did play for Italy, though, which made a possible selection for Argentina complicated. Or they just forgot about him.

[argentine soccer fan]

You`re right about Sivori. I can only guess, but maybe because he has never played for Argentina at a World Cup? He did play for Italy, though, which made a possible selection for Argentina complicated. Or they just forgot about him.

Actually he played for Argentina quite a bit, but not at the WC. But neither did Di Stefano and he's on the squad.

I'd have to look up the number of caps, but I know Sivory played more for Argentina than Di Stefano. He was a member of the 'carasucias', the team which won the Copa America in 1957. That team was awesome, it also included Maschio and Angelillo. They might have done well if they had gone to WC 58, but they were broken up with a number of players going to Europe. Back then that was the end of the participation in the national team. Argentina with a weaker team, mostly consisting of veterans past their prime like Labruna and Grillo, bombed in WC 58. And Sivori played for Italy in WC 1962. He later coached Argentina's national team.

At any rate, aside from overlooking Sivori, I am quite impressed with the line-up they picked. They took players from every era, so I give them credit for that.

[Gregoriak]

Actually he played for Argentina quite a bit, but not at the WC. But neither did Di Stefano and he's on the squad.

But the difference is that di Stéfano never played for Spain at the World Cup, which is different to Sivori, who did play for Italy. It is hard to justify a World Cup squad with Sivori playing for Argentina when he only played for Italy at the World Cup.

I'd have to look up the number of caps, but I know Sivory played more for Argentina than Di Stefano. He was a member of the 'carasucias', the team which won the Copa America in 1957. That team was awesome, it also included Maschio and Angelillo. They might have done well if they had gone to WC 58, but they were broken up with a number of players going to Europe.

I know, but it couldn`t have been that difficult for them to join the Argentina squad in Sweden, considering that they were playing in Europe. Shouldn`t have been that much of a deal.

[argentine soccer fan]

I know, but it couldn`t have been that difficult for them to join the Argentina squad in Sweden, considering that they were playing in Europe. Shouldn`t have been that much of a deal.

I am not sure what the situation was. Perhaps the European clubs didn't want them to play, or it is possible that AFA wanted to use only Argentine based players. At any rate, the 58 squad consisted of a bunch of overconfident arrogant old veterans who could barely run, and who thought they could win by just showing up. They got what they deserved.

[Excape Goat]

They are selecting players that did not play in a WC Finals. They are not picking showboat teams so they left out several star players. I admitted not knowing about Sivori.

So in this All Time World Cup no showteams, no Harlem Globetrotters. A Brazil with Pelé and Ronaldo, but also with Dunga. And France with Zidane and Platini, but not without Deschamps. We tried to let the teams play in a system they are used to. No players on positions where they never play or played. On the other hand, we decided that it wouldn’t be necessary that a player had ever taken part in a real World Cup. So in this All Time World Cup there would be place for Alfredo Di Stefano and George Best.

[comme]

The omission of Sivori is appalling. He has a fair claim to be the 3rd best Argentinian ever after Maradona and Di Stefano. Including him in the sqaud would certainly not have meant showboating.

[sidefootsitter]

I got to give them props for including Eduard Streltzov (late 1950s-1960s) and Vsevolod Bobrov (post war-1950s) on the Russian/USSR team. Even though neither played for a USSR WC team, the two are probably 2 of the 3 all time Soviet greats. (along with Yashin)

They are missing two 1970s greats - Dinamo Tbilisi's David Kipiani and Dinamo Kiev's Victor Kolotov. Both captained the UEFA Cups Winners Cup victorious teams.

Also strangely missing is Igor Belanov, 1986 European Player of the Year and Andrey Schevchenko, the reigning Euro Player of the Year.

And, as the 3rd GK ... well, OK, my first GK, I would have taken Vladimir Astapovskiy over Evgeniy Rudakov, as Astapovskiy became only the 2nd goalkeeper to win the Soviet Player of the Year award in 1976.

A side story on Astapovskiy -- in 1975, an all-time great Soviet hockey coach Anatoliy Tarasov (of the great Red Army teams) took over the underachieving Red Army soccer team as well and brought with him a set of exercises that he successfully used with his hockey team. One was them was a very Jackie Chan-Bruce Lee type that involved running up the wall. The key was getting as far up the wall as possible. The backward flip was not required.

Anyhow, the Red Army "record holder" for the most steps was Valeriy Kharlamov (a Hockey Hall-of-Famer, superstar of the 1960s-1970s) with 5 steps. Astapovskiy, without much training, made it 6 steps, breaking Kharlamov's record. Even more impressive was the fact that Valera was ~ 5'9" while Vladimir was 6'1".

Just shedding the light on the unknown Soviets...