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View Full Version : The Trade "Deficit" and the IPod Economy...why it's great to be in the USA's Economy


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Karl K
23 Dec 2004, 03:49 PM
Oh, yeah, the Cassandras on this board about the trade deficit, and the outsourcing of jobs, and the decline of the good ol/ USA will love this one

We Think...They Sweat

http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB110376349870907921,00.html?mod=opinion%5Fmain%5Fcommentaries

You want a scapegoat for the dollar's almost daily decline -- the Chinese water torture on the U.S. economy? I blame Steve Jobs. Apple is the worst offender in the decline of U.S. manufacturing. Their engineers sit around in air-conditioned offices on streets with cutesy names like Infinite Loop in Cupertino, Calif., and have others make stuff for them. They imported two million iPods assembled by thousands of Chinese workers just last quarter -- an almost $1.5 billion annualized trade deficit in iPods alone...

Over the last year, two things have happened. First, Apple has increased sales by over a third, almost all from iPods -- those two million of them at $265 each last quarter and 100 million songs sold via their iTunes service. An iPod is just the combination of some Apple software, cheap disk drives and a $12 chip from a Silicon Valley company named PortalPlayer. I calculated that Apple pays $200 per iPod to Chinese assembler Inventec to slap it all together. Even with cheap labor, Inventec has almost no profits, I'd bet under $10, probably more like $4. PortalPlayer, by the way, e-mails its design to Taiwan to be fabricated, with profits of $5 per chip.

The second change is that Apple's stock has gone from $21 to $64. Pretty cool, capitalism at its best. Why? Because Apple keeps $65 per iPod -- money chases profits! If you assume the stock-price increase is all due to the iPod (it is), then that business is worth some $15 billion. Add in PortalPlayer's market value of $1 billion and you get a feel for how the world works. A $1.5 billion trade deficit increases wealth in the U.S. by $16 billion. I'll take that trade any day...

...The very illogical way (so no one believes it) to get this all back in balance is for the dollar to rise. A lower dollar means foreigners get a needless discount on our productive stuff -- Pentiums and iPods, Windows XP and Oracle databases, and Cisco routers. They have to buy them anyway to run their economies (well, maybe not iPods) so why discount? Add non-productive but life-enhancing intellectual property to complete the sweep -- drugs, Hollywood movies, U2. A weak dollar won't bring back manufacturing jobs -- with $20/hour here vs. $2 in China, the dollar would have to drop 90%. And why should we encourage low-paying jobs in this country?

...Of course, bean counters can't find the money that flows into the stock market, it is just bean dip. The $4-trillion-plus in trade deficits since 1976 has been matched by an $11 trillion increase in value of our stock market. That's about all you have to know. Plus, as Jack Nicholson might say, they can't handle our dollars. Too many dollars in foreign central banks leads to overlending to wasteful domestic companies. Japan is just emerging 15 years later from a nonperforming-loan hangover. China is face-first in the punch bowl with half its bank loans uncollectible: If their currency spikes, it might go to 100%.

Rather than debase our wallets, Japan and China have to buy dollar assets to keep their currencies from rising too much if they want to continue to sell us their industrial output, while of course, we get rich selling them the tools to do it productively. I'd suggest thanking Bono, er, Steve Jobs, for the iPod economy.

Claymore
23 Dec 2004, 04:05 PM
That's nice, but what about the other 99.9% of Americans who aren't engineers or stock brokers?

BenReilly
23 Dec 2004, 04:10 PM
The new Republican mascot:

http://www.uclic.ucl.ac.uk/harold/Capetown/Photos/ostrich.JPG

Karl K
23 Dec 2004, 04:31 PM
That's nice, but what about the other 99.9% of Americans who aren't engineers or stock brokers?

This deep, complex, and nuanced understanding of economics on your part will ensure that you, and leftists like you, never come to power in this country for the forseeable future.

Karl K
23 Dec 2004, 04:32 PM
The new Republican mascot:

http://www.uclic.ucl.ac.uk/harold/Capetown/Photos/ostrich.JPG

Ah, faced with a real argument, you link to a picture.

Commendable, very commendable.

dj43
23 Dec 2004, 07:14 PM
That's nice, but what about the other 99.9% of Americans who aren't engineers or stock brokers?

My wife's teacher's pension fund has certainly done well. The fund manager jumped on tech stocks, including Apple, last year and the run-up has been terrific.

I truly don't understand the basis for your complaint. Every American has the opportunity to invest in mutual funds on their own or just ride their company's or union's retirement fund. You don't have to be a stock broker to buy into mutual funds. I'm sure you realize that.

BenReilly
23 Dec 2004, 08:13 PM
Ah, faced with a real argument, you link to a picture.

Commendable, very commendable.

Because your ignorance about economic matters is astonishing. The picture represents how Repulicans are destroying America with their insane indifference to our trade and budget deficits.

Here's an example of astonishing idiocy that even your pet rock would scoff at:

"A $1.5 billion trade deficit increases wealth in the U.S. by $16 billion"

Do you realize how only a person with an IQ in negative numbers could construct that sentence? Before you respond with your hyperbolic gibberish, ask your pet rock to solve this riddle.

obie
23 Dec 2004, 08:42 PM
The problem with a devalued dollar is that it starts as a short-term gain of competitive price advantage and turns into a long-term loss of equity and buying power. Think about the basic premise of a weak dollar -- other countries want less of what we're offering to the world market to buy (mostly government securities), so US curency holders have to offer more dollars in order to get what they make. That's unsustainable for a country where so much of our deficit is foreign-financed.

BushCo can try to spin this however they want through the WSJ or any other pro-Bush outlet, but believe me, this was not what they had planned. $1.15 or maybe $1.20 against the Euro would have been fine for a couple of months. Now that it's at $1.35 they don't know how to stop it -- well, they do know, but they won't do it: give a real plan to reduce the budget deficit. Saying that they'll cap "discretionary spending" was met with chortles at the forex markets, and for good reason.

Claymore
23 Dec 2004, 08:46 PM
Come on Karl, enlighten me. Tell me what we're going to do with all the unemployed once you move all the manufacturing jobs offshore. Tell me how they won't be a drain on the economy. Tell me about the wonderful GOP plan to turn them into landscape architects and fry station workers (oops, Bush reclassified them as "manufacturing" jobs, didn't he?). Tell me how the extra wealth accumulated by the top .5% is going to somehow "trickle down".

You can't, because all you're capable of is throwing out talking points.

Roel
23 Dec 2004, 09:47 PM
This deep, complex, and nuanced understanding of economics on your part will ensure that you, and leftists like you, never come to power in this country for the forseeable future.

You truly have no clue. The dollar is in decline because

- lack of US industrial output
- lack of US personal savings
- lack of US fiscal discipline

Source: The Economist

Japan, China and Europe are urgently trying to keep the dollar up, because the current world economy is driven by US consumption. The yuan is artificially tied to the US dollar, and the Japanese and European central banks are doing their best efforts to prevent free market forces from driving the dollar down. Unfortunately, bubbles are made to burst, and so too will the US dollar. Soon, the US dollar will not be the world's reserve currency.

Things will be very different.

Jacen McCullough
23 Dec 2004, 09:49 PM
My wife's teacher's pension fund has certainly done well. The fund manager jumped on tech stocks, including Apple, last year and the run-up has been terrific.

I truly don't understand the basis for your complaint. Every American has the opportunity to invest in mutual funds on their own or just ride their company's or union's retirement fund. You don't have to be a stock broker to buy into mutual funds. I'm sure you realize that.


Every American with extra money can invest in mutual funds on their own. With unemployment being what it is, college and housing costs skyrocketing and the job market remaining lousy, the vast majority of Americans not only can't afford to invest in mutual funds, they can barely make ends meet.

Roel
23 Dec 2004, 10:30 PM
I just read the article. It is from the Wall Sh@t Journal, so I usually don't bother. It is essentially the National Enquirer, for wannabe smart conservatives.

Pure crap. The author doesn't even get the basics right.

Apple, like all Silicon Valley companies, have tremendous manufacturing expertise, and also have strong presences in international facilities. No big news. The parking lot at Apple on the Infinite Loop, is mostly underutilized. Park right up front and walk right in. When I call on Apple, the place is empty and I always meet with the person I need to, exactly when it is convenient for me. They are hardly over-staffed or over-worked. Their stock performance has done well because they've avoided investing in areas that are not their core business (semiconductors, manufacturing) and they've avoided overstaffing. This makes a few investors rich, but this does not create buoyancy for an economy. (Remember the dot.com bust that Bush likes to blame on Clinton?)

Now, think about who has the currency to purchase the assets (shares in Apple.) The profits the author alludes to are controlled by Chinese. So Chinese buy shares in Apple. The assets are, at the end of the day, controlled by foreigners. The author, in his last paragraph, even goes so far as to state that foreigned "need" to buy US dollar based assets in order to keep the US dollar artificially low.

So the author is telling us to relax and say hello to our new (asset) owners, the Chinese.

NSlander
24 Dec 2004, 01:12 AM
This deep, complex, and nuanced understanding of economics on your part will ensure that you, and leftists like you, never come to power in this country for the forseeable future.


Happy Holidays!

spejic
24 Dec 2004, 05:59 AM
Karl, if you really believe in the market economy, then the proof that the article is bogus is very easy to show. To those that believe in a market economy, all items are accuratly priced acording to their worth. The price of all our thinking exports is far less than the price of all our raw and processed material imports. Thus their worth is far less.

Andy Bennett
24 Dec 2004, 06:40 AM
What amazes me is that anyone buys iPod's. I mean, it's only a souped up walkman, isn't it? When someone brings out a slightly better version, (probably also produced in China - maybe by a Chinese company), the value of the company will drop like a stone.

Footer Phooter
24 Dec 2004, 07:40 AM
The idea that our future economy will be based on people who think up of crap for other people to make for us is baffling to me. This implies that we're soooo much smarter than everyone else that we have to do all of the creative work, becuase the dumb fuuriners can't figure it out on their own.

And clearly, the iPod is a "fad", which will be replaced by the next best thing. (I own one though, it's great)

SgtSchultz
24 Dec 2004, 08:46 AM
Long term deficits are never good.

Roel
24 Dec 2004, 11:03 AM
According the WSJ, everything is fine! Keep fiddling!

I would've thought that both the right and left the would agree on something as obvious as debt. Long term structural deficits are bad. Leave it to dumbsh!t rightwingers to make this yet another wedge issue.

ratdog
24 Dec 2004, 01:50 PM
I love it when neoliberal "New Economy" types try to prop up a theory that died circa March, 2000. They remind me of the pet shop owner in the Monty Python dead parrot sketch.

metrocorazon
24 Dec 2004, 02:25 PM
What amazes me is that anyone buys iPod's. I mean, it's only a souped up walkman, isn't it? When someone brings out a slightly better version, (probably also produced in China - maybe by a Chinese company), the value of the company will drop like a stone.
There's already lots of equally good, if not better iPOD type devices that not only do what Ipod does, but much more. The iPOD has something the others DONT and that is good marketing and a strong brand. Its all about marketing and perception, people want to feel act cool, and you cant do that with another device, its just not the same. I know we all like to think the world doesnt work like this but it does. Good marketing can make a pice of ordinary crap look great.