All-Time All-NFL team?

[whirlwind]

Who would be on your All-Time All-NFL team?

Here's my first try... (backups in parentheses)

Offense
QB: John Elway (Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino)
RB: Jim Brown (Barry Sanders, Earl Campbell)
RB: Walter Payton (Gale Sayers, Doak Walker)
WR: Jerry Rice (Michael Irvin, Fred Biletnikoff)
WR: Elroy 'Crazylegs' Hirsch (Steve Largent, Art Monk)
TE: Kellen Winslow (Mike Ditka, Mark Bavaro)
OL: C-Mike Webster; G-Larry Allen, G-John Hannah, T-Anthony Munoz, T-Jackie Slater (Jim Otto, Forrest Gregg, Joe Jacoby, Art Shell, Gene Upshaw)

K: George Blanda (Morten Andersen, Jan Stenerud)
P: Ray Guy (Reggie Roby)
K/PR: Billy 'Whiteshoes' Johnson (Mel Gray, Rick Upchurch)

Defense
DE: Deacon Jones (Lee Roy Selmon, Mike Strahan)
DE: Reggie White (Willie Davis, Bruce Smith)
DT: 'Mean' Joe Greene (Buck Buchanan, Randy White)
DT: Merlin Olsen (Alan Page, Bob Lilly)
LB: Dick Butkus (Mike Singletary, Jack Lambert)
LB: Ray Nitschke (Chuck Bednarik, Junior Seau)
LB: Lawrence Taylor (Greg Lloyd, Ted Hendricks)
CB: Ronnie Lott (Lem Barney, Herb Adderley)
CB: Dick 'Night Train' Lane (Mike Haynes, Charles Woodson)
FS: Rod Woodson (Paul Krause, Gary Fencik)
SS: Mel Blount (Ken Houston, Nolan Cromwell)

Coach: Vince Lombardi
Owner: George Halas
Home Field: the frozen tundra of Lambeau Field-- no pansy astro-turf or domes allowed.

Team Rules:
Anyone dancing like Deion Sanders will be shot.
After touchdowns, either flip the ball to the ref (Barry Sanders) or let one of your linemen spike it (Walter.)
There will be no Mark Gastineau sack dances. Angry glowers, bloodstains and missing teeth are encouraged.

Lost Positions
I didn't include any fullbacks, because you can't really justify removing any of the running backs on the list. If I had, they'd be Marion Motley, Larry Czonka and Rocky Bleier.
I also didn't include any nosetackles, since we're playing a 4-3. If I had, they'd include Jim Burt, Joe Klecko or Tony Siragusa.

Let the flames and replacements and cries of "where's Joe Montana?!?" begin...

[jmh30]

Originally posted by whirlwind
Team Rules:
Anyone dancing like Deion Sanders will be shot.What if it actually WAS Deion Sanders? While I can't stand the guy, I think he has to go on the team as a cornerback and return specialist.

Other than that, this is a pretty good team you put together. Minor points...

- I'd probably start Unitas over Elway
- I'd start Bavaro over Winslow, but only because I'm a Giants homer
- Didn't Lott play most of his career as a safety? Or am I just confused?

Definitely with you on Lambeau. Domes and warm weather are weak.

[whirlwind]

Originally posted by jmh30
What if it actually WAS Deion Sanders? While I can't stand the guy, I think he has to go on the team as a cornerback and return specialist.

Other than that, this is a pretty good team you put together. Minor points...

- I'd probably start Unitas over Elway
- I'd start Bavaro over Winslow, but only because I'm a Giants homer
- Didn't Lott play most of his career as a safety? Or am I just confused?

Definitely with you on Lambeau. Domes and warm weather are weak.

I thought for quite a while about putting Deion on the list. In his prime, he certainly could cover anybody. I just think he's afraid to tackle anyone. Return specialist might be the right place to put him, then.

I figured there would be lots of debate on the QB position.

I'm a big fan of the 80s Chargers teams. Had a tough time not putting Charlie Joiner (or John Jefferson) on the WR list. Bavaro was certainly a better blocker and could drag tacklers downfield.

Lott played at CB for years, then switched to safety when he got a little slower. Man, could he hit, though. And anybody who chooses to have his broken finger amputated rather than missing the second half of a playoff game can play any position he wants on my team.

[Pack87Man]

OK, qualify these statements with the fact that I am, indeed a Packers fan.

One WR I thought was missing from your list was Don Hutson. The first star wideout, and held the touchdowns record for a long, long time before it was broken by Steve Largent.

I think I would take Joe Montana over Marino. I know Marino put up some huge numbers, but I think it was more because Montana had Roger Craig running for him and Marino didn't. I do think Brett Favre will belong on this list by the time he's done, but I can't really fault this list too much.

At CB, I don't think Woodson really has been around long enough to merit placement on this list. I'm sure he's a very good player, but let him get 7 or 8 years in before we put him on. I too, would omit Deion, but basically because of how many games he missed due to baseball. What a player, though. I don't know who to suggest in Woodson's place, maybe Rod Woodsen?

Overall a great list. One could make an argument for every person on here, which is about all you can say in a league with as many great players as the NFL has had over the years.

[Lucid]

I'd order the QB's with the starter as Marino, and his backups Elway and Montana. Marino was flat out simply... The Man. Unfortunately Ricky Williams didn't come along 10 years sooner.

I'd also at least put Derrick Thomas on the LB's backup list. Who else got 7 sacks in one game? He also got 6 in another and only 1 person had done that. He was 1.5 sacks short of Strahan's 21.5 sacks record, which should be 20.5. Gunther Cunningham devised his "Falcon" defense with DT as the centerpeice in a free roaming position. But most importantly, he could have made a run at White's 198 sacks had he not died. :(

First we deal with Bo Jackson being robbed from the Royals, then we get DT robbed from the Chiefs. Sucks to be a KC sports fan. No doubt they would have gone down as the greatest athletes this city had known.

The NFL needs to hire a few guys sit down and watch every NFL game ever recorded on video and count the sacks before 1982 and make those stats official. I'd love to see someone like Deacon Jones' sack totals.

It's all opinon, and you could argue the replacement of probably half of those players for other candidates left off the list. But good list though.

[jmh30]

Originally posted by Lucid
The NFL needs to hire a few guys sit down and watch every NFL game ever recorded on video and count the sacks before 1982 and make those stats official. I'd love to see someone like Deacon Jones' sack totals.That would be really cool if they did that, I've got to say.

[whirlwind]

Originally posted by Pack87Man
OK, qualify these statements with the fact that I am, indeed a Packers fan.

One WR I thought was missing from your list was Don Hutson. The first star wideout, and held the touchdowns record for a long, long time before it was broken by Steve Largent.


Legitimate observation. Hutson (and to some extent, Raymond Berry) made the WR position a legitimate one.

Originally posted by Pack87Man
I think I would take Joe Montana over Marino. I know Marino put up some huge numbers, but I think it was more because Montana had Roger Craig running for him and Marino didn't. I do think Brett Favre will belong on this list by the time he's done, but I can't really fault this list too much.

Actually, I did it because Montana had Jerry Rice to throw to. Rice turned an awful lot of four-yard slants into sixty-yard touchdowns.

Originally posted by Pack87Man
At CB, I don't think Woodson really has been around long enough to merit placement on this list. I'm sure he's a very good player, but let him get 7 or 8 years in before we put him on. I too, would omit Deion, but basically because of how many games he missed due to baseball. What a player, though. I don't know who to suggest in Woodson's place, maybe Rod Woodsen?


A valid argument. I'm sure my vote was in no way influenced by the Charles Woodson jersey hanging in my closet. ;) Actually, I think time will prove him to be a Hall of Famer as well.

Rod Woodson was the best corner in football until Barry Sanders juked him so badly his ACL exploded (game 1 of the season around 6 years ago.) Since then, he's been an excellent safety. You could certainly argue he should be on the list at CB, but I was a little low on valid safety candidates anyway...

[Megatron]

Well to be honest I think Deion Sanders doesn't get enough credit,I know he was a sissy when it came to tackling,but he was one of the best cornerbacks of his time, if not the best cornerback of his time.I think if he would have committed himself solely to football he would've been a sure pick for the Hall of Fame,and he would've had a longer career.

[redbird1]

Great roster, i'd only make the following changes:

LB: trade Greg Lloyd for Ray Lewis
WR: trade Art Monk for Lance Alworth
TE: Trade Mark Bavarro for John Mackey

Couldnt agree more about rugs and domes, they should be banned. I'd luv to have seen a Super Bowl played at the old Met in Bloomington Minnesota!

[soccernutter]

crap, how'd I miss this. Moved...

[Glenwood Lane United]

First, great list.

Second, what year is this team playing? If it's before 1979 where the five yard chuck rule did not exist and DB's didn't get called for interference by coughing on WR's, I don't think Deion would make the roster. Can you imagine Deion trying to tackle Jim Brown, or facing the Packer power sweep? He'd p!ss himself.

Even though I'm a huge Bears fan, I'd rather have Art Rooney own this team over George Halas. But Halas does belong somewhere.

[ThreeApples]

Who would be on your All-Time All-NFL team?

Here's my first try... (backups in parentheses)

Offense
QB: John Elway (Johnny Unitas, Dan Marino)

I stopped reading right here.

[Auriaprottu]

TE: Kellen Winslow (Mike Ditka, Mark Bavaro)


"How the hell I got in here before John Mackey, I'll never know".
-Mike Ditka in his HOF induction speech.

I'd also start Michael Irvin ahead of Largent. Largent wasn't just Seattle's go-to guy for most of his career, he was really the ONLY guy, thus the numbers. Stallworth and Swann had to split their receptions AND play in a run-oriented offense with Franco Harris and Rocky Bleier, like Charlie Joiner, John Jefferson and TE Kellen Winslow did to a lesser degree with Chuck Muncie. Irvin, Drew Pearson, Paul Warfield and even Jerry Rice had to share the ball with other receivers and running backs. None of them really had the opportunity to be their team's main threat for as many seasons as Largent did. All respect to Steve's numbers, but he'd play behind most of these guys, as well as the ones you listed that I have not.

If you're making a case for Montana, then perhaps a stronger one can be made for Bradshaw. If Marino, then an equal one for Tarkenton. I'm not disagreeing with your QB choices, but there are too many to choose from, no matter what the criteria, to really go wrong. Elway and Unitas should be consensus, tho.

[Val1]

I'm a big fan of the 80s Chargers teams. Had a tough time not putting Charlie Joiner (or John Jefferson) on the WR list.
I'm glad you didn't. Jefferson and Joiner were all-pro players, not pantheon players (to borrow Bill Simmons' term).

The Charger's receiver that you've overlooked, though, is Lance Alworth. He, along with Bob Hayes, created the modern wide receiver. WR seems to be the weakest part of your team. I like the nod to Hirsch, but he's a stretch. Monk? Irvin? Bileknikoff? I agree with the comment re: Hutson.

Larry Allen? NO.

I would also quibble with Elway and Marino as backups. HOFers for sure, but not much better than a Y.A. Tittle or a Len Dawson.

I don't know about Bednarik as fitting on this team. Maybe a lifetime achievement award kind of thing.

[nicodemus]

I'd also at least put Derrick Thomas on the LB's backup list. Who else got 7 sacks in one game? He also got 6 in another and only 1 person had done that. He was 1.5 sacks short of Strahan's 21.5 sacks record, which should be 20.5. Gunther Cunningham devised his "Falcon" defense with DT as the centerpeice in a free roaming position. But most importantly, he could have made a run at White's 198 sacks had he not died. :(

I was thinking DT would surely show up on somebody's list. Being an Alabama fan, I saw DT's collegiate career, and you know someone is incredible when they make you forget Cornelius Bennett was there just a few years prior.

[Excape Goat]

FS: Rod Woodson (Paul Krause, Gary Fencik)
SS: Mel Blount (Ken Houston, Nolan Cromwell)



I put Ronnie Lott somewhere, but I forgot his position. He was a FS, right?

[tog]

I put Ronnie Lott somewhere, but I forgot his position. He was a FS, right?

Yeah, he was a free safety.

And he belongs starting on any best-of team complied by anyone.

[Ghost]

Deion Sanders. In 1996, he should have been league MVP without making an interception. They just didn't throw at him, period. Which allowed Darren Woodson to roam the line. Which meant the Cowboys stuffed the run into near extinction that year. If you wanted to snuff out receiver for one game (or sixteen receivers for sixteen games), you would choose him first.
Cliff Harris needs a mention as a safety.
Allworth definitely should be on the team. First AFL player nominated for the HoF.

[The Rising Suun]

I cant be more specific right now, but IIRC, someone somewhere did take a look at historic sack totals. I believe it was used for a story in the official NFL magazine ca. 1998-99. The Rams of Deacon's day did keep unofficial sack stats and he came out with 180, I think, the only problem is that they did not award half sacks. Someone did review Deacons tapes and he had 170 or there abouts. I do remember hearing from Deacon and other sources that he still holds the unoffical single season record with 26 sacks, cant remember the year, but once again he got whole sacks instead of half ones according to the Rams statkeepers, and it was the standard anyway.

[The Rising Suun]

Who would be on your All-Time All-NFL team?

Here's my first try... (backups in parentheses)

Offense
QB: Johnny Unitas (Doug Flutie, John Elway)
RB: Jim Brown (OJ SIMPSON, Earl Campbell, Walter Payton, Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders)
FB: MARION MOTLEY
WR: Jerry Rice (Don Hutson, Fred Biletnikoff)
WR: RANDY MOSS (Cris Carter, John Stallworth)
TE: Kellen Winslow (Mike Ditka, JOHN MACKEY)
OL: C-Mike Webster; G-JIM PARKER, G-John Hannah, T-Anthony Munoz, T-ROSIE BROWN (DERMONTI DAWSON, Forrest Gregg, Larry Allen, Art Shell, Gene Upshaw, Bruce Matthews)

K: George Blanda (Morten Andersen, Jan Stenerud)
P: Ray Guy (Reggie Roby)
K/PR: Billy 'Whiteshoes' Johnson (Mel Gray, Rick Upchurch)

Defense
DE: Deacon Jones (Lee Roy Selmon, Gino Marchetti)
DE: Reggie White (Willie Davis, Bruce Smith)
DT: 'Mean' Joe Greene (Buck Buchanan, Randy White)
DT: Merlin Olsen (Alan Page, Bob Lilly)
LB: Ted Hendricks (Derrick Brooks, Jack Lambert)
LB: Dick Butkus (TOMMY NOBIS, Ray Nitschke)
LB: Lawrence Taylor (Bobby Bell, Junior Seau)
CB: JIMMY JOHNSON (Mel Blount, Herb Adderley)
CB: Dick 'Night Train' Lane (Mike Haynes, Deion Sanders)
FS: Ronnie Lott (Paul Krause, Gary Fencik)
SS: Ken Houston (Nolan Cromwell)

Coach: Tom Landry
Owner: Bill Veeck
Home Field: Texas Stadium

Team Rules:
Anyone dancing like Deion Sanders will be shot.
After touchdowns, either flip the ball to the ref (Barry Sanders) or let one of your linemen spike it (Walter.)
There will be no Mark Gastineau sack dances. Angry glowers, bloodstains and missing teeth are encouraged.

...

I made some changes. Took Derrick Brooks as my modern reach (who covers AND pursues better?) Moss is the best player in the L now, and merits a mention as one of the best deep threats ever, start the hating, but he doesnt do anything that other players in the league do (take plays off...T.O.?!?!?!). Match up Moss to a corner from the past and he burns them, only Deion has the speed to keep up and even he would lose the jump ball. Blount was a CB, and Lott played MOST of his career at safety. Slater was a highly dubious HoFer and does not belong on this list. Sacks are overrated and few players can rise above them to define a career see Chris Doleman, Kevin Greene, Bruce Smith. Perhaps Smith less so, but Reggie White and LT are the only players in my mind who had lots of sacks but that doesnt define them as a player. Jimmy Johnson is up there with Haynes and Sanders as a cover corner. I understand that most of the linebackers that are in the HoF are indside/middle, and while most of them could cover, some very well, I just like "The Mad Stork" in there. Dont hate too much on Larry Allen, he deserves a backup spot, and so does Bruce Matthews, but Jim Parker belongs in the starting lineup. Flutie is flat out not one of the greatest NFL players of all time, but arguably the best CFLer ever and I think he a perfect back up to spark a come back if needed. Elway could do that too, but he isnt 5' 10". Charles Woodson is overrated now, he hasnt been that good for a couple years and if he doesnt get his career back on track, he will never approach this list. A good football team needs a fullback, and while many consider Jim Brown a fullback, I will put Motley there. He lead the league in rushing from there and had a great career while being one of the first to break the color barrier in the NFL. Heck Payton would make an HoF caliber FB, but I'll keep the sanctity of positions with Motley. Tell me Im not the only one who wonders what Veeck would do with a Football Franchise. Greg Lloyd was not good enough for long enough, but in his time he was awesome, but not quite HoF material. Strahan has had some dominant years, but he needs a couple more. Marchetti belongs there over Strahan.