Our next Scab line-up

[jelliot]

I curious if anyone knows what the rules are with being a scab.
Could we field a U-17 team or would it be a college team. And is anybody familar with any of the players that would play on our scab team.

[ttrevett]

I don't think there are hard and fast rules. Although the PA says it represents anyone who has ever played with the USMNT or has been called into camp. Any youth players who think they may have a shot at the USMNT in the future would certainly not play with a "scab" team. I would say lower division players plying their trade in Europe or the A league who would love the idea of playing in a qualifier for the US may consider playing. God knows if the USSF asked me, I would go in an instant. Although, I don't think they've gotten desperate enough to take a 32 year old out of shape desk jockey like myself.

[Stan Collins]

Right. The only example we have was late 96, after one season of MLS.

http://www.sams-army.com/index.php?Mlist=match&Mid=25

That time around you had Eddie Lewis when he was 22 (as in, before he was a serious NT prospect but after he'd shown some potential), Mark Dodd (the MLS GK of the eyar that season), and then mostly MLS scrubs (Ramiro Corrales was subbed into the game).

It doesn't seem to have hurt Lewis's rapoir with other NT players that we know of, but I would think player unionism would be a disincentive to most youngsters who know they have a serious NT shot, like a Clint Dempsey. (Eddie really didn't yet--he didn't get another cap for two years. In fact, the guy on the team with the most recognized potential was probably Corrales, who was 19 at the time.) Though that doesn't necessarily mean we absolutely couldn't get one or two guys like that to walk.

I think the 'battle' will focus on two categories:

1. MLS players who are long-shots to ever have much more than a cup of coffee with the NT (as in, they'd have to show something that no one expected). There are a *lot* of MLS players like this to choose from, so it would not surprise me terribly if we could convince enough of them to field a fully first division team.

2. Guys who have had NT caps before, but for whom it's pretty clear they're not NT material.

The '96 team was pretty close to what I just described, the only exception I see is that Leonetti was playing for Seattle Sounders at the time of the game. Several (Eck, Leonetti, Dodd, Brose, Ibsen, Lozzano, Harbor), had previous NT experience. What you see, though, is that a lot of them wouldn't stay in MLS much longer, suggesting they were mostly borderline guys.

Look for guys whose names you know now, but probably won't remember in most cases 8 years from now, if the last team is anything to go buy.

The consolation, I think, is that that first year in MLS, the league still had a lot to figure out, and the NT still had a lot to figure out about the league. If we got the same type of players this time around, the team would be a lot better. I don't know that we couldn't field a scrub team and still get some kind of result against T&T.

[Dave Marino-Nachison]

I don't know that we couldn't field a scrub team and still get some kind of result against T&T.

Perhaps. But I would like to think that CONCACAF competition, particularly at the Hex stage, is beyond the point where we could get a point with a replacement team. If it isn't, I sure as wouldn't want to see T&T in Germany -- I remember a few years back when a ridiculously undermanned DCU team beat the Revs on the road. It was nice for United, but in my opinion somewhat embarassing for the league.

[Stan Collins]

Well, my bias is, I haven't seen much of T&T lately, but I don't think much of them traditionally. They produce a couple of special attacking players but have been generally lacking in discipline, teamwork, and well-roundedness (there's usually a legitimately non-MLS-level player or two to be found somewhere on the pitch for them, if you can find and exploit him). Unless they have improved, I think there's little chance we'll be seeing them in Germany (barring unforeseen events such as lockouts ;)).

It's by no means a guarantee, but if we played a defensive, counterattack game, they could possibly be caught with their pants down the once or twice we come forward with numbers, which if we put one away out of that, would probably enough if we have enough defenders to man-mark their all their attackers. That's just my thought, though.

[Dave Marino-Nachison]

No argument there. To be honest, I guess I'm just a little concerned about the quality of the 2005 Hex pool not only from the perspective of the U.S. team but with regard to the strength of the teams CONCACAF will send to Germany. Qualification will be tough because it is always tough, but it's difficult to imagine the region being well-represented if the unthinkable happens and we send, say, Panama, Guatemala, T&T and Costa Rica.

This is not to deride the accomplishments of the countries that did make it this far. I guess I'm just somewhat surprised by the grouping. Well, that's why the play the games!

[tab5g]

No argument there. To be honest, I guess I'm just a little concerned about the quality of the 2005 Hex pool not only from the perspective of the U.S. team but with regard to the strength of the teams CONCACAF will send to Germany. Qualification will be tough because it is always tough, but it's difficult to imagine the region being well-represented if the unthinkable happens and we send, say, Panama, Guatemala, T&T and Costa Rica.

This is not to deride the accomplishments of the countries that did make it this far. I guess I'm just somewhat surprised by the grouping. Well, that's why the play the games!

yes, if by some circumstances the traditional top two teams fail to qualify from Concacaf, it is hard to imagine that the region will be all that well-represented in Germany06.

but the same can be said of the Asian region and to a lesser extent the African and South American regions. only UEFA has real depth, plus the added advantage of home soil in 2006.

[Stan Collins]

To be honest, I guess I'm just a little concerned about the quality of the 2005 Hex pool not only from the perspective of the U.S. team but with regard to the strength of the teams CONCACAF will send to Germany. Me too. I want us to send four teams who all look better than the weakest Asian qualifier (last time around, we certainly sent three teams that all looked better than China and Saudi Arabia). I think this Hex has lowered our chances of doing that, as it doesn't seem to me to represent our best six teams.

[sidefootsitter]

Me too. I want us to send four teams who all look better than the weakest Asian qualifier (last time around, we certainly sent three teams that all looked better than China and Saudi Arabia). I think this Hex has lowered our chances of doing that, as it doesn't seem to me to represent our best six teams.
China was truly bad. Saidi Arabia sort of recovered a bit after that demolition by Germany.

But without the 2 guaranteed seats for Asia, its 2,006 participants are likely to be without the world weaklings.

[LeeS]

Getting back to the issue at hand, I think in this day & age, the negative impact on a players reputation from his peers is pretty minimal.
Like was mentioned earlier Eddie Lewis' reputation wasn't damaged in any apparent way. And for a greater example, how many players that crossed the lines in the NFL strike of the mid-80s do you even remember, let alone still see being looked porrly on about it? I know one was 49er QB Joe Montana, I don't think anyone gives him a hard time about it.

I just think at this point, players realize its a business and that each individual player has to do whatever is best for himself, based on his needs and goals. I think few players who might cross will be too worried about what Greg Vanney or Conor Casey (just to use examples) will think, nor do I think Vanney or Casey will worry about it too much in the first place.
No current players who choose to not play can reasonably think that no other US players on the planet would step in.

That being said, I hope it doesn't come to that point. And I truly don't it will. I can't imagine a more wreckless & disasterous scenario for US soccer.

Lee

[Adam Zebrowski]

Let's assume scabs get used in t&t...

once you've used them, at what point do you stop using them??

so the ussf MUST have the players BLINK first, once they start using the scabs....

and the disharmony evident in france 1998, could easily fester in the 2005 hex campaign....

so we have a lot of anti-union posters who'll cross the picket line due to their philosophic predilection.....

I guess this means ussf can cut a harder deal with the players now...

after all, it's the managers job to max the ussf coffers isn't it....

or is it to promote the development of the game here....

or maybe it's a plot between Warner and ussf to get T&T to germany???

[Stan Collins]

I did a web search on the NFL strike, and didn't find a whole heckuvalot. A few facts:

--The strike lasted four weeks. After a one week delay, the replacement plaeyrs played 3 games.
--It at first involved about 1,000 replacements and about 90 "real" NFL players.
--The "real" players included Howie Long
-- Teams like the Cowboys sent letters out saying that players couldn't fulfill their incentive clauses if they continued striking, and this motivated Tony Dorsett and Ed "Too Tall" Jones (among others) to walk the line.
-- The players decertified the Union in 1987. They did not agree with the league on a new CB until 1993.

[Stan Collins]

A couple of related links I found:

http://www.jaguars.com/Story/3489.asp
http://espn.go.com/classic/s/moment011004_nfl_strike_scabs.html

But this generally seems to be an almost forgotten part of NFL history.

[USvsIRELAND]

China was truly bad. Saidi Arabia sort of recovered a bit after that demolition by Germany.

But without the 2 guaranteed seats for Asia, its 2,006 participants are likely to be without the world weaklings.

8-0 loss to Germany
3-0 loss to Ireland
2-0 loss to Cameroon (I think)

Saudi Arabia didnt score a goal all tournament, neither did China. I cant believe they have 3 (?) World Cup Places.

Apart from Japan and Korea, Asia is crap at soccer, football, calcio, voetbal.

[Stan Collins]

Meanwhile, our third best, CR, scored twice on Brazil. The only team in the tournament to do that, IIRC. (And they tied a good Turkey team and creamed China).

[scaryice]

Saudi Arabia didnt score a goal all tournament, neither did China. I cant believe they have 3 (?) World Cup Places.


Try 4 and a half.

[Chesco United]

2-0 loss to Cameroon (I think)

Saudi Arabia didnt score a goal all tournament, neither did China. I cant believe they have 3 (?) World Cup Places.



Cameroon beat Saudi Arabia 1-0. (http://worldcup.espnsoccernet.com/results?date=20020606&lang=en)

[jamison]

If this lineup does happen, I would expect more guys like Joe Enochs, maybe Thorrington, Hanhemann, etc. Guys hoping to stick a foot in the door, but with little repercussions should it not work out.

John Wolyniec fits into the categories previously discussed above (a cap or two, a camp or two, etc, but not serious Nats material by any stretch), but can you imagine him taking a scab cap and then going home to play 32 club games with Agoos & Pope his lockeroom? Me neither. Would not Robin Fraser and Tony Sanneh get on a Chad Marshall for taking this call up? Could guys like Petke, Matt Jordan, Berckerman et all be on the list? Possibly, but I'd be surprised.

You also have some USMNT has beens (CJ Brown, Victorine, etc) too, but I can't imagine very many Yanks making a living stateside that would want to be party to this.

[Various Styles]

The Mexican forum USMNT Scab pick of the month is :

Andrew Shue :) :cool:

http://web.telia.com/~u87727183/shue.gif

[jamison]

That reminds me of someone who plays in South Texas (aka Mexico)...

Daniel Hernandez?