Views on worst behaved fans in Germany

[keller]

Just wanting to know what people views were on the worst behaved fans in Germany.

Have had many different reports on this, many claiming fans of clubs like Dynamo Dresden,the two Leipzig clubs, BFC, and other former east germany clubs. Then on the other hand clubs like Eintracht Frankfurt, Offenbach, Waldhof Mannheim, Schalke, Koln and Hamburg.

Any views would be appreciated.

[Mattbro]

The Germans aren't so bad compared to other countries. The security situation is very good, and the police and clubs I think do an excellent job in ensuring fan safety at games. The only problems I ever saw when I was going to games regularly in Germany were against clubs from other countries, such as Feyenoord and Red Star Belgrade.

Going on hearsay alone though, I'd have to say Frankfurt and Offenbach don't have the best reputation.

And Cologne fans are proles, but then that wasn't the question. :D

[  ]

Pretty much Eastern German fans are known to be thugs, but they remain in the lower divisions (Dynamo Dresden).

The only Bundesliga teams which I have encountered that have unruley fans are Nurnberg (Skinheads) and Schalke.

With the current unemployment rate in Germany, many feel that football hooliganism will rise.

[DanielHSV]

Braunschweig and Mannheim still have some nasty fans.
I don't know bout the Bundesliga, I've been to quite a few away games and never experienced any problems (except for Turin, but we won 3-1 there, so those italian guys were pretty pissed :D )

[F96]

There is hardly any violence in the Bundesliga anymore, it's very different though in the 2. Bundesliga and especially in the Regionalliga Nord.

Frankfurt fans like to appear tough but compared to some fan groups in Eastern Germany they really aren't.

I would say the biggest idiots are fans of Dynamo Dresden, BFC Dynamo Berlin and Rot Weiß Essen.
Dresden has really big problems with their so called "Kindermob" a bunch of kids from 14-19 who probably have no job and no real perspective and love to attack away fans.

Dresden at least admits that the club has a huge violence problem and they are working to improve the situation.

The worst experience with rival fans for me was in Cottbus.
Bunch of ugly skinheads who made jungle noises at Gerald Asamoah (he still used to play for us back then).
I never felt safe there, most fans, even the older ones and little kids were extremely aggressive and thew stones and firecrackers at us.

[96Squig]

Bad reputation do have Dresden and Essen.
To a lesser extent Frankfurt. Worst experience I had was against that club, when they shot fireworks at ppl sitting in wheel chairs!!!
But compared to Italy or Spain Germany seems to be heaven ;-)

[OP_M]

Nurnberg (Skinheads)

eh..no way.
:eek:

we are not having any sort of racicsm or nazi acting in our fan szene, not more than every other club in germany has (a very little %, just the usual dickheads)

i dunno where you got that from, but no.just not true.

[Doc_Aeppler]

To a lesser extent Frankfurt. Worst experience I had was against that club, when they shot fireworks at ppl sitting in wheel chairs!!!

I could never defend behavior like that, but i believe you are talking about the game in 2001 or 2002 and there is another side to that story:
When Frankfurt-Fans arrived in the stadium that day they found their whole section covered with signs reading stuff like "Scheiss-Frankfurt" "Juden-UF" and stuff like that. (I wasnt there but Ive seen pictures of it) That led to a lot of trouble during the game and especially after the game, and every other game vs Hannover ever since!
No doubt about it, there were some very stupid people that did very stupid stuff, espeically at that game, and as I said, I do not want to defend it, just try to explain it!
Hannover had their good share on what happened....
And btw, they have probably the worst police in germany, and i have experienced that my self when i was there in May...
I mean how can hannover fans hang those posters in our section?! and if they did it the night before, how can the police or security not have realiced that?! I have no doubt that they DID know it....


As to viloence in generall... Unfortunately we in Frankfurt do have a bit of a problem with that, but there are always two sides of a story...
Like in Essen this season:
I mean both groups are known for violent fans, so the police really should have known what awaits them...
After the game they kept all Frankfurt Fans in the Section to avoid a crash of both fangroups. Sounds good but a bunch of Essenfans (and also some guys from offenbach who were there only to make trouble) were able to stand in front of the section, and waited for the police-barrier to open.
Unfortunately a couple of FrankfurtFans who sat in another section were allowed to go out, and as they walked by the Frankfurt-Section, some Essen-Fans standing there started attacking them.
Of course the large amount of Frankfurtfans standing behind the policebarrier got even more angry than they were when they saw that and i guess they broke through the barrier. What happened then must have been anything but pretty and let to many arrests...
Of course what happened was not good, but i can understand that you lose it when you are kept in your block like animals and have to watch how a handfull of Fans of your club are being attacked by a huge crowd of hools on the other side of the barrier...
I wouldnt defend it and espeically would never participate in it, but i can kinda understand it...

[Doc_Aeppler]

Frankfurt fans like to appear tough but compared to some fan groups in Eastern Germany they really aren't.

I would say the biggest idiots are fans of Dynamo Dresden, BFC Dynamo Berlin and Rot Weiß Essen.
Dresden has really big problems with their so called "Kindermob" a bunch of kids from 14-19 who probably have no job and no real perspective and love to attack away fans.

Dresden at least admits that the club has a huge violence problem and they are working to improve the situation.


What is going on in Dresden this year is just really really bad!
I have heard from Karslruh-Fans who were there in Summer. After the game when they went out of their section, like maybe 200 people they had to be escorted to their busses by police with probably 1000 Dresdn Hools around them throwing stuff at them. They were instructed to just
enter the buses, no matter if it was another one than the oen they came with. As they drove out, the crowd followed them and threw stones at them, (severall windows were broken) and teh police didnt even manage to escort them through red traffic lights. They had to stop evera time, and the mob could catch up with them! Once they were out of town they all stopped at a gas station and transferred to their right busses!
I dont know to how much of an extend this story is true, but i have heard it severall times nw, not only in teh internet but also from my cousin who lives in Karlsruh...
This story seems like from another world, but it happened here in Germany, and i think thats kidna frightening...
Best thing is, Dresden never even got a real penalty... they have pyro at any freakin game and they dont get penalties... The german FA is just so ridiculos... i mean we in frankfurt get 30000€ penalties for a bottle thrown on the field (which is ok) but nobody cares about dresden....

There is no way in the world that i would drive up to the Dynamo-Frankfurt game in Spring! This could get really really nasty...


Nurnberg (Skinheads)

there are really many clubs in germany that have a bigger problem with skinheads than nurmeberg....

Cottbuss, Hannover, well basically just about any easterngerman team...

[hoop]

Thank god another frankfurt fan i had a simalar argument with one of the 96 fans on the thread about german rivals page3. Frankfurt are not half as bad as the eastern clubs e.g erfurt,desden,essen etc.

[96Squig]

C'mon, Frankfurt fans, this is a discussion, not an argument. The Hannover fans aren't all angels, and I actually did see pictures of what was sprayed in the section. But that can never justify shooting fireworx at handicapped ppl, common. If both Ultra groups have problems they can steal flags or so, I don't like that, but you don't get ppl from the father and son section or handicaped persons involved.
And as far as I know the Hannover fans scene really got better since 2000, besides the one Schalke game where some stupid fans of ours threw karabinerhaken (whatever that is in English) at one player who was faking being injured I never heard anything real negative about Hannover fans.
And Frankfurt does have a worse rep than Hannover, please just ask the others here at BS...

[Doc_Aeppler]

ai gude wie?! ;)

youre right, i think its close to an insult to be named in a row with some of those E-German teams... we do have some problems but nothing that big...

But Im much rather part of an individual, well-organized, fangroup, that doesnt just take any instruction they are given and that have their own culture, than of a well-behaved, commercialized "i just do what im told" group like in Freiburg and Mainz for example...
I think part of the problems we have is a response to how we are treated at many games, by the police, the security, the german FA...


btw, how do you become a Frankfurtfan in Dublin?! or are you from here?!

[Doc_Aeppler]

C'mon, Frankfurt fans, this is a discussion, not an argument. The Hannover fans aren't all angels, and I actually did see pictures of what was sprayed in the section. But that can never justify shooting fireworx at handicapped ppl, common. If both Ultra groups have problems they can steal flags or so, I don't like that, but you don't get ppl from the father and son section or handicaped persons involved.
And as far as I know the Hannover fans scene really got better since 2000, besides the one Schalke game where some stupid fans of ours threw karabinerhaken (whatever that is in English) at one player who was faking being injured I never heard anything real negative about Hannover fans.
And Frankfurt does have a worse rep than Hannover, please just ask the others here at BS...

Whos making this an argument?! just saying that hannover isnt all that nice either...
no doubt about it, shooting fireworks in the "father and son section" is probably as low as someone can get...
I would never justify that, but i can understand how people lose it when they are treated like that...
And btw, this was not a problem between the two ultra groups. If I enter a section that is covered with posters like that, than that is an insult to me, and thus a problem for me too...
And if you have 3000 angry insulted people, and one of them starts with violence, then i think the probability of the situation escalating is a lot higher than on a usual occasion were 2900 of them keep calm...

[aloisius]

What was UF suppose to mean?

[Doc_Aeppler]

What was UF suppose to mean?

sorry bout that, it means "ultras-frankfurt", which is basically the biggest and most organized fanclub here (most other teams have ultras, but here in germany the UF are one of the biggest and most-recognized groups of their kind)
They plan all the tifos and organize most of the support and busses, and stuff like that, they really do good work...
unfortunately it is easy for some "trouble-shooters" to hide in their rows, because many of them are a bit "extreme" if you want...
So everytime something bad happens, it often falls back on the UF, (which is sometimes corect and sometimes not)
Anyways, I personally am very glad that they do what they do...

[96Squig]

Thank god another frankfurt fan i had a simalar argument with one of the 96 fans on the thread about german rivals page3. Frankfurt are not half as bad as the eastern clubs e.g erfurt,desden,essen etc.

@Doc_Aeppler
I think we are discussing, not arguing, aren't we?And I think you might be treated wrong because of the bad rep. Therefor it would be asking: what was there first, the chicken or the egg? to try to find out whether it is the fan's foult or the police's(or whatever), don't you agree. it needs two to get into an argument, and I agree that the Hannover fans usually are not nice to Frankfurt fans, and actually I have no idea how our police is, but I can tell you that your's does not have that good of a rep. neither.
The spraying was clearly against the UF, but of course every other Frankfurt (better: soccer) fan would have been felt insulted. I understand that ppl get angry than, but still who's fault was it? for sure not the of the father and son+disabled ppl's in front of you, was it? I mean of course it was just a small number shooting those rockets, but nobody seemed to have tried to stop them untill the Police came into the fan block. Sorry, but If I would be on an away ride seeing some idiots doing something like that I would try to stop them.
We agree that the situation in Essen, Dresden and most other eastern german clubs is worse, but in my opinion (which is subjective of course) the Frankfurt fans are the worst behaving in Germany after the eastern German clubs+Essen...
(not saying Hannover would be number 1 in that ranking, by far not, but who wants to be like Wolfsburg ;-) )

[as roma]

gERMAN FANS ARE GENTLEMAN COMPARED TO THOSE ENGLISH OR DUTCH TROUBLEMAKERS. hOWEVER IT MAKES SENSE THAT THE EASTERN ONES ARE A BIT ROWDY.

--------------------------------------------------------
this aint no joke http://search.ebay.com/albanian-national-team_W0QQsokeywordredirectZ1QQsonewuserZ1

[hoop]

@Doc_Aeppler
I think we are discussing, not arguing,I have no idea how our police is, but I can tell you that your's does not have that good of a rep. neither.

sorry i didnt mean it like that. what is between an argument and a conversation. thats what i meant. :o
i was simply overjoyed to find another frankfurt fan as it was all hanover schalke and so on. so sorry about that.
About the frankfurt police thing you are totally correct the commisoner of the frankfurt police is on trial fpor threatning to torture someone. And if you think your police coverage is poor you ( you being germany ) should see the Irish police. :cool:

[Grizzly]

As a Canadian who is neither Ossi or Wessi but has lived in both areas this discussion reminds me of something that happened when I first went to Germany. I first lived in eastern Germany and while there I met a lot of Wessis who always complained about the blocks of concrete appartment buildings. Naturally at the time not having visited West Germany I assumed things must be different there. However, on my first trip to the West I found out that West German cities have blocks and blocks of ugly cement buildings just like East German ones do. A slightly different style of ugly cement buildings but ugly cement buildings just the same. Step out of the Kassel Hbf train station and tell me how you would know whether you were in east or west Germany.

I support Sachsen Leipzig which is a pretty peaceful team unless we are playing against one of the hooligan clubs like LOK, Halle or Dynamo. I have attended Leipzig derbies that were suspended and games like Dynamo versus LOK but the worst I have seen either away or at home is RW Essen. Threw rocks at us the whole game in Essen and in their appearance in Leipzig trashed a train before the game (which brought transportation to the match to a halt) and caused havoc both before and after attacking kids and old men. Had Dynamo acted like that it would have been on tv all over Germany. Last time I looked on the map Essen was in West Germany (shortly after that neighbouring Fortuna Dusseldorf came to Leipzig and were great guests riding on the same train and trading scarfs with us before the game). Essen is by no means the only team in West Germany with large hooligan problems. In the east there are teams that are no problem to visit and teams that are a problem just like in the west. Most of the problem clubs do tend to be 2BL or lower. I also don't agree that German fans are not as bad as in other countries. I have attended matches in many countries and Germany is among the worst I have experienced.

[hoop]

btw, how do you become a Frankfurtfan in Dublin?! or are you from here?!
My dad lives there half the time and i go often aswell. i went to my first frankfurt game last feb against bayern and I was at the LR Ahlen and unter haching matches earlier this seasaon and I Get blow by blow accounts of 50% of the matches from my dad. also Frankfurters came over to watch my team over here: Shamrock rovers. My dads apartment is in saxonhausen. and i've been around frankfurt often e.g klappergasse, schifer strasse, saxonhausen, bembletown, etc. if you'd like to learn more about shamrock rovers go to www.shamrock rovers.ie or the main rovers fan scene www.srfc ultras.com Rovers fans are in my opinion the best in ireland frankfurt have far greater numbers. :cool: