Are the fans that exp'd the 70's and 80's too nostalgic regarding..

[Dark Savante]

Our crop of O.T legends who are on the wane?

Let me explain. I know some of the fans here have experienced the truly dire periods of the 70's and 80's when Man U were really in the shadow of a number of English teams namely Liverpool and Everton and when we started to win things in the early 90's it was, at the time, as shocking as say the current Liverpool team coming 1st this season.

There was a huge rejoice and sense of relief and eventually the team settled down into a model that carried us to tremendous success in the later 90's.

3key figures in this rise to the top of Europe were Keane, Giggs and Scholes. As everyone knows they were intergral figures in what was one of the best midfields in the world for a number of years.

Now that Keane and Giggs have started to wane slightly alot of the newer generation of fans have started to call for their heads. Whilst alot of the old guard see this as sacrilege. I find it unfathomable to force any of the clubs true patrons out instead of have them either retire or Fergie drawing a natural conclusion to their careers. Personally I'd rather have them call time themselves and have us finish in a lower position then maybe expected that season then have them booted.

I know many others who feel the same way and they, like me find it quite mortifying when people call for the heads of Giggs and/or Keane.

I realise this may be nostalgia but seriously, the club owes these guys more than you can imagine. It's almost sacrilege to have them deleted as if they were nothing but pawns.

Erm, thoughts to this old timers? :) Anyone elese share my view on these boards?

I cannot believe people want Giggs out in January. :confused:

[prk166]

Some folks get confused and see a slip in form, look at the date of Birth and say "aha! Over the hill!". Or, in Keane's case, they see his play and think "geeze, he played a different game when he was 22", look at his DOB and then make that same conclusion. These folks should concentrate on reviewing prawn sandwiches, not players.

[Motterman]

Seriously, if people think Keane is past it, go ahead and let him know - to his face. (if you dare)

None of these LEGENDS are at their best all of the time, but each can turn a game at the drop of a hat. People doubt Keane, then he bosses the Liverpool match, and has been masterful at playing the holding midfield position this whole season. People doubted Scholes, and we've seen what he's done the last 5 or 6 games. People doubted Giggs and we've seen his form return the last 3 or 4 games as well. Any of these players can still instill terror in the opposition in many more ways than one...

Would I take a Giggs from 5 or 6 years ago over the Giggs of today? Maybe, but there are so many other areas of his game that has improved, even if he doesn't blow by every right back in the league every week.

Keane of 5 or 6 years ago? Yes. He's not the same player he was. But he's also not asked to do the same job. What we ask of him, he does with skill, smarts and plenty of drive, fire and leadership. He's still the engine, but he just turns over the driving forward aspect to Scholes, Giggs, Ronaldo, Rooney and Ruud now.

Scholes had a tough start to the season, and we've heard Fergie defend him noting his improper pre-season preparation due to the US Tour. He's also looked a bit jaded since retiring from England and I'm sure the last 4 or 5 months haven't been easy on him. But look at how much different he's been since the first goal. You could see it coming as his game was improving for a few games and then the goal came and now he's flying.

We'd get more out of these players if we could rest them more often and not suffer a great drop in quality.

Fegie's taken some chances on buying some younger players on the cheap and hoping they pan out - you can't buy a Cantona for 1.5 mil every day.
People (who I think are muppets but can't really say that to them here) like to point the acusing finger at Sir Alex for not having a ready-made replacement for Ryan Giggs. Of course not, he's Ryan ********ing Giggs! Same goes for Keano and Scholes.

End of. :mad:

[Cou5]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Motterman again.

[Father Ted]

United under Fergie keeps reinventing every few years. I thought he was nuts when he let Paul McGrath(one of my all time favoutire players) and Gordon Strachan go. But he was right. I thought the world would fall when he got rid of Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis in 1995. And the same feeling when Cantona prematurally retired. But the team and even the style is constantly changing. At some point Keane/Giggs/Scholes will leave or retire. As a boss said to me once, noone is indispensible.

Having said that each of the 3 players are very important to the team.

To get the true value of Keane, you have to see him live. I've seen him live 4 times with United and 3 times with Ireland. The way he orchestrates the team is like no other player I've seen. He is truely the one who pulls the strings and makes the team tick. (pardon the cliches please!)

To see Scholes and Giggs play well the last few games show that they are still important to the team. Giggs in the past has been a streaky player. There has been many times when his form was poor. So I'm not surprised that he is coming back now.

It bodes well for the rest of the season. Fergie knows how to pace the team and when it is important to be playing well. How many times in the past have we seen other team be leading the first half of the season and then United goes on a run after Christmas and end up winning? I think we're in better shape this year than we were last year.

[van_da_man]

At this point in time...getting rid of the ''old'' guard, would not be a good move. All have proven that they can still perform, when required to do so. Lots of fans say that keano is finished, but i feel that he is performing the task required to a high standard, we dont need him to instigate attacks. scholes and giggs have both shown of late, that they can pull top notch performances out of the bag. The only thing that would not sit well with me, would be if, when keane/scholes/giggs are no longer able to perform to a high standard, and they remain fixtures in the first team, simply because it would be ''rude'' to ditch them. Fergie's motto: ''no one player is bigger than manchester united. but i feel that this day will not come, as they will know when they are no longer able to perform, and most likely step down themselves.

Also motterman's point of replacements for these players, is very true...you cant replace these players, sure you can replace their positions, but the way they play, what they bring to the game will always be different.

[Motterman]

I'd like to add that I'm not sold on the players coming through at the moment. They are young and inexperienced and may never duplicate (or more importantly surpass) the accomplishments of the Manchester United squad of recent times.

Of course, that's what makes it all so fun to watch. :)

There is nothing like seeing kids from our youth setup break into the first team and make their mark.

We've been hampered by that bollocks rule about the distance youth players can travel to training, so we've resorted to short buys on potential players. We see players from our youth system playing for other Premiership teams and have decent careers, just like we never see some of them ever again. Buying these younger players with potential is little different from giving your youth system players chances to succeed or fail... the fact is - they don't all pan out.

All that being said, I'm not worried at all as we still have a formidable squad and can still beat any team on our day. And there are so many bright spots to our team, and even though some key players are getting older we still have a very strong nucleus of a squad that is still quite young and will only get better as well. We are still about 1 or 2 players away from being truly solid going into the future, but that's better than 4 or 5. We're still deeper than most squads and our cover is pretty good too IMO...

I'd like to see an heir apparent for Ryan Giggs come along, but the change there may be as dramatic as Ronaldo was for David Beckham. Totally different player Ronaldo is from Becks, but he brings another dimension and changes the game in so many ways that Becks does not.

(Similarly, Rooney's play is different from anybody else we've tried to partner with Ruud too. That's a firecracker waiting to go off big time if you ask me....)

I'd really like to see somebody come in and challenge Keane for first team minutes as our central midfielder, but, again, finding that box-to-box mentality and physicality may not be really possible. Keane is a one-off, as good as two world class players in what he brought to the game when he was in his prime. Now we just have to settle for one, fine with me. Time for somebody else to step up and provide that driving force forward then, that's all.

"Sell Giggs for 4 million...."
"Keane is past it...."
"Scholes is past it..."

:confused:

******** OFF.

[Motterman]

Scholes is past it:

http://skysports.planetfootball.com/images/multimedia/1/scholes_1024.jpg

[50 Euro]

Good thread, agree with most of what others have posted, only thing to add is I think people calling for the heads of legends is also symptomatic of the Fantasy Football/Championship Manager culture. A player goes through a rough patch-BANG!-time to sell and bring in the flavor of the month. One thing about Keano, Giggs and Scholes is that I have faith in them to acknowledge when it's fitting to call time on their careers. Maybe that's unrealistic, but IMHO they've earned that right. Keano has always been his own harshest critic, and it must get old (no pun intended :) ) constantly answering questions about the end of one's career. What's surprising is that some seem to insinuate that any of these three wouldn't always want what's best for the club. I don't think they're holding anyone back or retarding anyone's growth, it's a matter of new players settling in and pushing hard for their place in the side.

[Dark Savante]

"Sell Giggs for 4 million...."
"Keane is past it...."
"Scholes is past it..."

:confused:

******** OFF.

I'm sure this is the belief of many of those who know what these players mean to the club and the absolute legacy they've helped us create. I do believe that the more modern fan (not neccesarily a glory hunter) would not gauge what they are saying or how it would rile those who went thru the shite years.

My fear is once these 3 go our team may fall apart or go through some serious hard times. Because even though you can find people with talent, the never say die, 100% winning attitude of the 3players who know nothing other than success, is not going to be reproduced easily, if at all, imo.

How wierd will it be to have seen the start and end of the career of the club's most successful player ever? (Giggs) I'm not looking forward to the day when he is no longer at the club that's for sure.

[jammybastard]

Think about this conversation 10 years ago...

Irwin?
Bruce?
Hughes?
Sharpe?
Robson?
Kanchelskis?

etc...

Granted not all of them were as old as Giggs, Scholes and Keane, but they were on their way out 10 years ago. Some sooner than others!

All three mentioned here are leaders, and a link to the Treble team and the winning tradition of the 90's. The kids and new players need to know this, and feel it.

As we can see by the recent weeks Scholes and Giggs are far from done.

Keane's been injured for most of his career with United and played through it for better or for worse. Major knee op in '97?
********, I'm surprsed he's still walking let alone playing.

As for Giggs...
well that pass to Rooney proves his touch yet again.
Sure he's slowing down and playing more conservative.
Is he going to shake down 3-5 defenders like he did at the FA Cup semi-final between Arsenal at Villa Park on April 4, 1999?
http://cache.gettyimages.com/comp/2883630.jpg?x=x&dasite=MS_GINS&ef=2&ev=1&dareq=3EED17B4E06360C0BD226A5176900BF2A9C30E9B9B114CE8

Not likely, but he can teach kids like Ronaldo how to do it or at least be more consitant about it.

All three of these players have earned the right to retire at United.
I know that's not a popular sentiment in sport anymore, but for me that is what United is about. Honoring those who have given and sacrificed for the cause week in a week out. Players, coaches, fans, etc...
after all, that's what tradition is all about.
Granted, they might not like being on the bench as much and choose to go.
That's their option.

[Rei de Boston]

This is a great thread. I have liked reading everyone's thoughts. I am not afraid to admit that I have thought that Giggs is passed it. Last season I didn't think he played really well. However, this season has been different. I will say that even last season I didn't like the idea of selling him. I didn't like the idea of selling Becks. Even though I see the good that came of it. In his way he was on the same level as Keane, Scholes, and Giggs. But things have turned out right in that situation and I trust them and Sir Alex to do what is right for the team.