Deuce
30 Nov 2004, 12:26 PM
1) Local desire/desperation vrs Regional Benifit. A Soccer Specific Stadium is beneficial to all involved and is in the best interest of the Region as well as the local area.
2) Cost of land: Because of proximity to like high rise office space nearby land is expensive and may be more valuable tax wise (and best use) in other uses. Is a $5 million to $10 Million land premium going to pay off for the teams useage and finacial return?Land that is dis-used industrial and in need of re-development is generally cheaper than "green-field" areas. The infrastructure is already in place.
The city has many ways to gain the land cheaper than an individual can aquire the same land. (Just think back to how Larry H. Miller aquired the land for the Delta Center with the help of the city) The City will re-zone, condemn, or trade (Remember the Main Street Affair) To aquire the land that it wants.
3) 10 acre city blocks may be big by Eastern and European standards but still small for a Stadium. The mimimum footprint for a stadium is 4 acres. The security/surveilance zone arround the structure will eat up 2 to 4 acres. Staff, Player, bus, Media and VIP parking will take the rest, leaving little space for the required greenspace landscaping. I am unsure of the requirements per area within the stadium zone but I am reasonable sure that a 10 acre lot can easily become a 20 acre lot by removing the thru street so it is not difficult to envision a stadium downtown.
4) Where will you find 5000 parking places (the 4:1 ratio for "suburban") or 2000 (the 10 to 1 ratio for "Urban"areas with parking available)? [NOTE: This kind of standard was required of all sites when the Blitzz looked for stadium land. Now if Rockey has ideas of changing the rules he has an opponent.]The Parking is already available in and around the dwntown area, either walk or TRAX to the stadium from a parking lot. Delta Center, both downtown Malls, The Gateway and about 30 downtown private and public lots would be plenty for a stadium that will seat approximately 1/2 - 3/4 of the Delta Center. Plus any parking built with the stadium. (If I am not mistaken this will be a 10-15 thousand seat stadium.)
5) Practice areas must be at a separate place! This costs money and time. If a $2 million payroll of players and staff are spending 2 hours a day in travel and setup/takedown time that could be spent in useful activities, it is a poor value return for the team.The Jazz have a much larger player and organizational payroll and they don't practice at the Delta Center. They practice at the Zion's Bank Facility about 6 miles away. I am reasonably certain that they would not be doing this if it were a waste of money.
6) Hiz Pub-Crawlness "vision" for Downtown is for more "lively" bars and such. Maybe he considers a stadium a really big "Party House". Absolutely the wrong idea for Utah family values and totally missing the demographics of the people who attend pro soccer in Utah. I have been to the games and looked at who was there and seen the non-profit beer sales at Freezz games.I feel that gearing your sales pitch to a specific demographic while ignoring the others is financial suicide.
What about visiting fans? Soccer is a sport that has fans that traditionally travel to 'away' games. They come from very diverse backgrounds so alienating or ignoring there needs will only hurt the team and the area, as well as businesses in and around the stadium. Not to mention the Hotel industry.
I agree that the demographics are strongly geared toward a 'family' sport, however there are countless area attractions that cater to this function.
I also realize that this is not the only demographic for the area. Having an area for other demographic groups is good common sense and financially sound business planning.
The family atmosphere can be maintained while co-existing with the rest of the demographic groups. Other cities have been pulling it off for decades... I am sure we can do it here!
7) If there is adequete land (20 to 100 acres) available cheep Downtown, why hasn't Boyer or Wall-Mart grabbed it? Maybe it is low valued for a reason, and that turns away developers.I think this is redundent with the third point but I do think that if the city had been properly motivated by Wal-Mart or a different group that wanted to build in downtown that the plans would have been drawn up.
I believe that the city would NOT subsidize a Wal-Mart but would help subsidize a stadium so this point is mute.
8) TRAX would benifit more from a suburban site with lots of parking around the stadium availabe for the worker/student/shopper who lives off the line and will take the train if there is parking close to home and at the Station. The same for all Sports Fans who want to get to a game without the nearby parking problems. FUTURE AD: "Park at ReAL Stadium for Ute Football or Jazz games and ride TRAX".Erm... this could go both ways... The TRAX does service the downtown area so having the stadium downtown would be beneficial to TRAX users as well.
9) Big fireworks shows won't go at a crowded Downtown site.Fireworks are used downtown every 4th & 24th of July at Franklin-Covey Field and Liberty Park so this point does not make sense. Unless you don't consider these areas downtown.
10) The best interests of the team should be utmost! Comprimising principle and sound stadium siteing for a dubius value "downtownism" is not tin the best interest of ReAL Salt Lake!I am more than reasonably sure that sound stadium siting will be employed wherever the stadium is homed. Of course It will benefit Real Salt Lake and the area in which it is homed or it will be built somewhere else.
2) Cost of land: Because of proximity to like high rise office space nearby land is expensive and may be more valuable tax wise (and best use) in other uses. Is a $5 million to $10 Million land premium going to pay off for the teams useage and finacial return?Land that is dis-used industrial and in need of re-development is generally cheaper than "green-field" areas. The infrastructure is already in place.
The city has many ways to gain the land cheaper than an individual can aquire the same land. (Just think back to how Larry H. Miller aquired the land for the Delta Center with the help of the city) The City will re-zone, condemn, or trade (Remember the Main Street Affair) To aquire the land that it wants.
3) 10 acre city blocks may be big by Eastern and European standards but still small for a Stadium. The mimimum footprint for a stadium is 4 acres. The security/surveilance zone arround the structure will eat up 2 to 4 acres. Staff, Player, bus, Media and VIP parking will take the rest, leaving little space for the required greenspace landscaping. I am unsure of the requirements per area within the stadium zone but I am reasonable sure that a 10 acre lot can easily become a 20 acre lot by removing the thru street so it is not difficult to envision a stadium downtown.
4) Where will you find 5000 parking places (the 4:1 ratio for "suburban") or 2000 (the 10 to 1 ratio for "Urban"areas with parking available)? [NOTE: This kind of standard was required of all sites when the Blitzz looked for stadium land. Now if Rockey has ideas of changing the rules he has an opponent.]The Parking is already available in and around the dwntown area, either walk or TRAX to the stadium from a parking lot. Delta Center, both downtown Malls, The Gateway and about 30 downtown private and public lots would be plenty for a stadium that will seat approximately 1/2 - 3/4 of the Delta Center. Plus any parking built with the stadium. (If I am not mistaken this will be a 10-15 thousand seat stadium.)
5) Practice areas must be at a separate place! This costs money and time. If a $2 million payroll of players and staff are spending 2 hours a day in travel and setup/takedown time that could be spent in useful activities, it is a poor value return for the team.The Jazz have a much larger player and organizational payroll and they don't practice at the Delta Center. They practice at the Zion's Bank Facility about 6 miles away. I am reasonably certain that they would not be doing this if it were a waste of money.
6) Hiz Pub-Crawlness "vision" for Downtown is for more "lively" bars and such. Maybe he considers a stadium a really big "Party House". Absolutely the wrong idea for Utah family values and totally missing the demographics of the people who attend pro soccer in Utah. I have been to the games and looked at who was there and seen the non-profit beer sales at Freezz games.I feel that gearing your sales pitch to a specific demographic while ignoring the others is financial suicide.
What about visiting fans? Soccer is a sport that has fans that traditionally travel to 'away' games. They come from very diverse backgrounds so alienating or ignoring there needs will only hurt the team and the area, as well as businesses in and around the stadium. Not to mention the Hotel industry.
I agree that the demographics are strongly geared toward a 'family' sport, however there are countless area attractions that cater to this function.
I also realize that this is not the only demographic for the area. Having an area for other demographic groups is good common sense and financially sound business planning.
The family atmosphere can be maintained while co-existing with the rest of the demographic groups. Other cities have been pulling it off for decades... I am sure we can do it here!
7) If there is adequete land (20 to 100 acres) available cheep Downtown, why hasn't Boyer or Wall-Mart grabbed it? Maybe it is low valued for a reason, and that turns away developers.I think this is redundent with the third point but I do think that if the city had been properly motivated by Wal-Mart or a different group that wanted to build in downtown that the plans would have been drawn up.
I believe that the city would NOT subsidize a Wal-Mart but would help subsidize a stadium so this point is mute.
8) TRAX would benifit more from a suburban site with lots of parking around the stadium availabe for the worker/student/shopper who lives off the line and will take the train if there is parking close to home and at the Station. The same for all Sports Fans who want to get to a game without the nearby parking problems. FUTURE AD: "Park at ReAL Stadium for Ute Football or Jazz games and ride TRAX".Erm... this could go both ways... The TRAX does service the downtown area so having the stadium downtown would be beneficial to TRAX users as well.
9) Big fireworks shows won't go at a crowded Downtown site.Fireworks are used downtown every 4th & 24th of July at Franklin-Covey Field and Liberty Park so this point does not make sense. Unless you don't consider these areas downtown.
10) The best interests of the team should be utmost! Comprimising principle and sound stadium siteing for a dubius value "downtownism" is not tin the best interest of ReAL Salt Lake!I am more than reasonably sure that sound stadium siting will be employed wherever the stadium is homed. Of course It will benefit Real Salt Lake and the area in which it is homed or it will be built somewhere else.