Olympic candidates this YEAR (final reg seasons stats)

[Sandon Mibut]

Here they are, boys and girls, the final numbers for the regular season. These are for MLS games only and don't include the US Open Cup or any games someone played in the A-League.

Nelson Akwari, NY/NJ
7 games, 3 starts, 325 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Devin Barclay, San Jose
12 games, 2 starts, 321 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

DaMarcus Beasley, Chicago
19 games, 19 starts, 1719 minutes, 3 goals, 4 assists

Kyle Beckerman, Colorado
14 games, 5 starts, 477 minutes, 0 goals, 1 assist

Edson Buddle, Columbus
21 games, 13 starts, 1304 minutes, 9 goals, 5 assists

Jose Burciaga, Kansas City
Did Not Play (injured all season)

Craig Capano, Chicago
4 games, 1 start, 92 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Bobby Convey, D.C.
26 games, 25 starts, 2248 minutes, 5 goals, 3 assists

D.J. Countess, Dallas
1 game, 1 start, 100 minutes, 6 saves, 0.90 g.a.a.

Brad Davis, NY/NJ
24 games, 12 starts, 1246 minutes, 4 goals, 3 assists

Landon Donova, San Jose
20 games, 18 starts, 1681 minutes, 7 goals, 3 assists

Kelly Gray, Chicago
25 games, 20 starts, 1780 minutes, 2 goals, 5 assists

Eddie Johnson, Dallas
11 games, 2 starts, 326 minutes, 2 goals, 1 assist

Justin Mapp, D.C.
3 games, 0 starts, 28 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Kyle Martino, Columbus
22 games, 15 starts, 1444 minutes, 2 goals, 5 assists

Jesus Ochoa, Los Angeles
9 games, 4 starts, 352 minutes, 0 goals, 1 assist

Santino Quaranta, D.C.
11 games, 11 starts, 949 minutes, 3 goals, 4 assists

Miguel Saavedra, Chicago
Did Not Play

Jordan Stone, Dallas
4 games, 1 start, 91 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Seth Trembly, Colorado
4 games, 0 starts, 43 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Players who helped their standing compared to where they were in the beginning of March -

Martino (showed he's a real candidate to be the Olympic team's playmaker), Gray (showed he's a real option at either D-mid or center back), Buddle (showed he will really push to be one of the starting forwards, Donovan (used the WC to reaffirm his status as one of the world's great young players), Davis (showed he's a real option on either flank), Beasley (used the WC to show he can play with the best in the world), Convey (finally showed he can play consistently well with the big boys) and Akwari (just by turning pro and getting games he vaults back into serious Olympic contention).

Everyone else, I'd say, either held where they were or lost some ground.

[DigitalTron]

Great list Sandon, Thanks!

I agree with most of your analysis, but disagree on a few points. I was far less impressed with Akwari than Gray, but in all fairness Akwari joined late in the season.

There was a lot of talk in this forum about how Martino was the next big thing and how he had surpassed Convey as the best attacking central midfielder. At the time I stated that while no one has ever doubted Martino's skills, his consistency was the one thing that prevented him from making that leap. Despite a white-hot start, Martino was inconsistent. Most young players are, but Martino didn't really shake off that concern this season. Hopefully he will in the future.

Also, I faithfully re-asserted my firm belief that Convey is THE best attacking central midfield prospect in the US. In the second half of the MLS season he did very very well. Despite DC United's cataclysmic finishing (right there at the worst in MLS history and the next-worst MLS team this season had double the finishing that United had), Convey consistently provided scoring opportunities. When he was finally moved into the center of the park for the last three games, he was on fire.

Convey finished with 5 goals and 3 assists. Realizing how inept his forwards were, those 3 assists need to have an asterik by them, because they could have been 13 if he had good finishing.

Martino had 2 goals and 5 assists on a team flush with finishers and always playing attacking soccer including from the wingbacks. IMHO, Convey was more effective.

Also, Edson Buddle deserves more publicity. This guy played fantastically this season, particularly at the end. While Buddle wasn't as highly regarded as Eddie Johnson, Johnson produced similar numbers if projected over the same amount of minutes. Only Johnson's injury and Jefferies decision to keep Johnson on the bench prevented a break-through season for EJ. In 1300 minutes Buddle had 9 goals and 5 assists. In one quarter of the time, EJ had 2 goals and 1 assist, which would project to 8 goals and 4 assists in the same time. Still not as effective as Buddle, but worthy of mention nonetheless.

-Tron

[fidlerre]

Originally posted by DigitalTron


Also, Edson Buddle deserves more publicity. This guy played fantastically this season, particularly at the end. While Buddle wasn't as highly regarded as Eddie Johnson, Johnson produced similar numbers if projected over the same amount of minutes. Only Johnson's injury and Jefferies decision to keep Johnson on the bench prevented a break-through season for EJ. In 1300 minutes Buddle had 9 goals and 5 assists. In one quarter of the time, EJ had 2 goals and 1 assist, which would project to 8 goals and 4 assists in the same time. Still not as effective as Buddle, but worthy of mention nonetheless.

agreed with what you said about buddle. i dont know what to do with all of the strikers but i cannot even imagine a strike tandom of buddle and johnson, with donovan just slighty behind them in the AM role (in reality he would be a 3rd striker) wow. talk about a nose for the goal. should be interesting...

[Karl K]

Sandon, thank again for the yeoman work in putting this together.

My first reaction going down the list was "Wow, we could have QUITE a team, especially on the attack."

But looking at this group, clearly the weakness is in defense, defensive midfield, and at keeper.

And once again, I will get on my soapbox for Edson Buddle. The numbers -- gaudy as they are -- belie what REALLY makes him special in my mind -- namely, his ability to hold the ball under pressure with back to goal.

To me, unless Conor Casey's development has REALLY skyrocketed, he has GOT to be in the mix, if not starting, for this group.

[metroflip73]

Originally posted by Karl Keller
But looking at this group, clearly the weakness is in defense, defensive midfield, and at keeper.

We have the talent in areas where we haven't had as much (striker, a-mid) but the areas mentioned above have me a bit worried.

[Sandon Mibut]

Regarding the perceived deficiencies of our Olympic pool at GK, the back and D-mid...

I'm not at all worried about goal. DJ Countess is a special GK and next year (assuming he's healthy) he's gonna play a lot. Mike Jeffries didn't give up a No. 1 pick and a left-footed senior international to get Countess and have him sit. He's gonna play and he'll be fine.

As for a backup, Doug Warren, Curt Spiteri, Jason White and Mitchell Watson are all seniors and they should all be in MLS or the A-League (or Europe) next spring so there will be some depth there. And, who knows what Steve Cronin will do after the WYC but he'll likely have offers from MLS and Europe.

In the back, you have to remember that we have several U23 backs in Europe - Alex Yi, Oguchi Onyewu, Phil Salyer, Frankie Simek, Aaron Shepherd, Ian Joy, Charles Kazlauskas and, of course, my good friend Zak Whitbred.

Also, hopefully Jose Burciaga will be healthy and get some minutes for KC next year.

And then you have the college underclassmen like Ricky Lewis, David Stokes, Chris Wingert, Chefik Simo, Chad Marshall, CJ Klaas and Ryan Cochrane. If, at minimum 2-3 of these guys turn pro this winter, there will be a lot more depth in the back.

On top of that, you've got seniors like Dustin Branan, Scot Thompson, Guy Abrahamson, Will Thornton and Jacob Ward who are all age-eligible for Athens and should move more into the U23 picture once they're with a pro team.

As for D-mid, it's hard to argue that there's depth there. That said, Jordan Stone should play a lot more next year as should Jesus Ochoa. And, Kyle Beckerman showed this year he could play there in a pinch.

As for underclassmen, hopefully Ricardo Clark and Brian Caroll turn pro this winter and Kenny Arena and Frankie Sanfilipo are seniors so they should be pros next year as well. So, while it still won't be that deep, it should be much deeper in March than it is right now.

So, while I think it's valid to say that we're much deeper at the attacking positions, I think it's wrong to say we have no prospects in the defensive ones.

[Sachin]

Thanks for all your hard work.

I wonder if we will see Donovan and Beasley going to Athens. They've already "graduated" to the senior side and will have to get getting ready for World Cup Qualification, which begins in the Fall of 2004.

Sachin

[Mason16]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
...Kyle Beckerman showed this year he could play there in a pinch.

I really like Beckerman at d-mid. Where are you suggesting he normally plays? He did get some time on the wing with the Fusion but I like him in the center of the pitch. He also has a rocket shot and has shown talent in starting attacks.

I would really like to see our programs go to more "defensively solid, offensive minded" dmids instead of the "destroyer" mode that has been popularized by Armas and Williams. I think players like Beckerman and Gray (although he should be a center back in my mind) fit this new mold. Not to take away from the significant contributions of Armas but he killed attacks on both sides of the ball.

[Karl K]

Sandon, once again, great work on the list of players in the areas of ostensible weakness.

I think it is really critical that a lot of the college guys -- Klaas, Simo, Clark -- go pro immediately after this year. Either that, or the Europe contingent has to round into some serious form.

I also think Countess has got to get some important minutes soon. You're right about Jeffries opinion of him, but that has to translate into playing.

After him, it seems to me there is somewhat of a gaping whole at the keeper position.

Right now, clearly, if we were to pick overage players, it would be at keeper, defense, and defensive mid.

It would be a shame to put out a professionally seasoned lineup at the attacking positions, and not have similar experience levels in the back. It could all work out, but it is a concern.

[ursula]

Originally posted by Karl Keller
[B
Right now, clearly, if we were to pick overage players, it would be at keeper, defense, and defensive mid.

It would be a shame to put out a professionally seasoned lineup at the attacking positions, and not have similar experience levels in the back. It could all work out, but it is a concern. [/B]

...much like we did last go around (remembering that Chris Armas was an original pick by Clive Charles). But come to think of it I'd say that most of the time (not always but most of the time) our overage picks will center around the defense.

[beineke]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
Craig Capano, Chicago
4 games, 1 start, 92 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Miguel Saavedra, Chicago
Did Not Play


Incidentally, Saavedra has become a starter for the Milwaukee Rampage down the stretch. He still doesn't play the full 90 minutes, though. Capano also joined the Rampage and was a late-game sub on Saturday.

While neither player has been a star, they both have a good chance to appear in the A-League final this Saturday. I can't imagine that many teenagers have done that before.

[DigitalTron]

I agree with Sandon's assessment regarding DJ Countess as our goalie and Ricardo Clark as our Dmid. Unless those guys are injured, we're strong at both positions. Also, with Steve Cronin in goal and Jordan Stone at Dmid, we have cover that's competent.

My fear is the back line. I don't have as much faith in most of those guys as many other people do. While all have some good skills, defensive lines work best as a team, and I don't know that we've really shown much as a team. I think a guy like Jose Burciaga may be the glue that we need back there, though I'm probably the only person here who thinks so.

Sandon has championed the cause for several players who previously had been un-recognized by the USSF. I'd like to think he's at least partially responsible for them getting a look. Two of these are Frankie Simek and Zak Whitbred.

Simek (Arsenal Youth Academy) will play for us. Whitbred (Liverpool Youth Academy) may or may not. From what I've been told, Whitbred is as good as anyone at this level, and could be a difference maker if he chooses to be cap-tied to the US with this team.

The other guys are a mismash of defenders who get caught upfield attacking (i.e. Onyewu), guys lacking some tactical knowledge (i.e. Alex Yi), and a bunch of guys that just are not accustomed to playing together.

Guarding someone like Maccarone (Middlesborough First Team Striker) isn't going to be easy, and unless your back line is working as a well oiled machine ... you're in trouble.

I wouldn't mind bringing in a Carlos Bocanegra as an overage player once the final round comes and letting him organize our back line.

-Tron

[TheSlipperyOne]

Originally posted by fidlerre

i cannot even imagine a strike tandom of buddle and johnson, with donovan just slighty behind them in the AM role (in reality he would be a 3rd striker) wow. talk about a nose for the goal. should be interesting...

You can also throw in Conor Casey up top for either of the 2 you mentioned. Then think about Beasley and Quaranta as the wide mids. :D Makes me happy just thinking about it.

[Pagefan]

I realize this may not be the place for this discussion but my choices for the over-age players:

Pope, mostly for leadership; and Keller and Armas, to sort of make amends for the fact they didn't participate in the World Cup. Those are the players I'd choose as things stand now, though maybe someone like Mastroeni instead of Armas, 'cuz Armas was on the team in Sydney, IIRC.

[Nutmeg]

Originally posted by ursula


...much like we did last go around (remembering that Chris Armas was an original pick by Clive Charles). But come to think of it I'd say that most of the time (not always but most of the time) our overage picks will center around the defense.

As they should. Look across the world, and typically your best defenders are a bit older than your best attackers. The ability to read and adjust to the development of a game is something very few young players can do on instinct alone. Those that can are truly remarkable (I'm thinking of Rafa Marquez, in particular). Youth tournaments will always be both exciting and nerve racking because of the inexperience and mistakes in the back.

Coach Charles' best move was his selection of Hejduk and Agoos to anchor what was to be a suspect back line. I fully expect to see a similar pattern this time around. Mastroeni and Pope, IMO, will be two of the overage players in the Olys.

[Preston North End]

Originally posted by Sandon Mibut
Here they are, boys and girls, the final numbers for the regular season. These are for MLS games only and don't include the US Open Cup or any games someone played in the A-League.

Nelson Akwari, NY/NJ
7 games, 3 starts, 325 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Devin Barclay, San Jose
12 games, 2 starts, 321 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

DaMarcus Beasley, Chicago
19 games, 19 starts, 1719 minutes, 3 goals, 4 assists

Kyle Beckerman, Colorado
14 games, 5 starts, 477 minutes, 0 goals, 1 assist

Edson Buddle, Columbus
21 games, 13 starts, 1304 minutes, 9 goals, 5 assists

Jose Burciaga, Kansas City
Did Not Play (injured all season)

Craig Capano, Chicago
4 games, 1 start, 92 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Bobby Convey, D.C.
26 games, 25 starts, 2248 minutes, 5 goals, 3 assists

D.J. Countess, Dallas
1 game, 1 start, 100 minutes, 6 saves, 0.90 g.a.a.

Brad Davis, NY/NJ
24 games, 12 starts, 1246 minutes, 4 goals, 3 assists

Landon Donova, San Jose
20 games, 18 starts, 1681 minutes, 7 goals, 3 assists

Kelly Gray, Chicago
25 games, 20 starts, 1780 minutes, 2 goals, 5 assists

Eddie Johnson, Dallas
11 games, 2 starts, 326 minutes, 2 goals, 1 assist

Justin Mapp, D.C.
3 games, 0 starts, 28 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Kyle Martino, Columbus
22 games, 15 starts, 1444 minutes, 2 goals, 5 assists

Jesus Ochoa, Los Angeles
9 games, 4 starts, 352 minutes, 0 goals, 1 assist

Santino Quaranta, D.C.
11 games, 11 starts, 949 minutes, 3 goals, 4 assists

Miguel Saavedra, Chicago
Did Not Play

Jordan Stone, Dallas
4 games, 1 start, 91 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists

Seth Trembly, Colorado
4 games, 0 starts, 43 minutes, 0 goals, 0 assists...

Great work!

BTW, why do you list Jesus Ochoa? He was born in Mexico. Are you assuming he will have citizenship by early 2004? Does he have it already? He has to have a green card, otherwise he couldn't play pro soccer.

Now for comparison sakes so people can stop worrying about the current crop lacking pro experience...Here are the CAREER playing stats - in a pro 1st team - for the 2000 U23 squad at the same time frame (roughly two years prior to the Oly's)...

G - Napolean: 4 GP, 360 MINS; 3.00 GAA, 32 Saves.
G - Howard: 1 GP, 90 MINS; 1.00 GAA, 5 Saves.
G - A. Brown: No Pro Experience.
D - Califf: No Pro Experience.
D - Cherundolo: No Pro Experience.
D - Corrales: 31 GP, 1870 MINS; 1 Goal, 2 Assists.
D - Dunseth: 24 GP, 1691 MINS; 0 Goals, 0 Assists.
D - McCarty: 6 GP, 540 MINS; 0 Goals, 0 Assists.
D - Whitfield: No Pro Experience.
M - D. Beasley: No Pro Experience
M - DiGiamarino: 23 GP, 1554 MINS; 3 Goals, 2 Assists.
M - O'Brien: No Pro Experience. (19 games with Utrecht in 1998-99).
M - Olsen: 37 GP, 2582 MINS; 4 Goals, 9 Assists.
M - Thorrington: No Pro Experience.
M - Vagenas: No Pro Experience.
M - Victorine: No Pro Experience.
M - Winters: No Pro Experience.
F - Albright: No Pro Experience.
F - C. Brown: No Pro Experience.
F - Casey: No Pro Experience.
F - Donovan: No Pro Experience.
F - Wolff: 19 GP, 913 MINS; 8 Goals, 3 Assists.

The squad listed by Sandon has more experience in ONE YEAR than the squad that went to Sydney. The numbers above are the career stats through the 1998 MLS regular season and playoffs. Sandon's numbers are through the 2002 MLS regular season.

[Sandon Mibut]

Originally posted by Pagefan
I realize this may not be the place for this discussion but my choices for the over-age players:

I've said it several times on any threads but I think it's way too early for speculation on the overage slots. A lot can happen between now and July of 2004.

First off, we have the U20 qualifying in November that will give us our first glimpse in real competition of several prospects. If, say, Ricardo Clark or Jordan Stone (or both) totally man-up and play great, perhaps D-mid won't be the concern many think it is now.

The we have, assuming the US qualifies, the World Youth Championships, in the UAE next March. That's an ever bigger stage to evaluate the 83s and 84s. That should be a very good gauge of who can or can not contribute to the Olympic team. Who knows? Maybe Chefik Simo will be a revelation at left back and Chad Marshall and Zak Whitbred will be rocks in the middle. It's a bit of a stretch but not impossible and if it happens, then we aren't nearly as worried about the back line.

Then, next August, we have the Pan-Am games in the Dominican Republic, which will be a U23 event for men. (It has been since 91). That will be the first real competition for the U23 team and it will be the first time the 83s and 84s will be matriculated together. While we likely won't have our ideal best 18 together because of various club commitments, it should give us a good idea of what the team's strenghts and weaknesses are.

And then, sometime in the spring of 2004 is CONCACAF's Olympic Qualifying Tournament, for which no over-age players are allowed. That tournament will really expose the holes of the team and let us know what areas need to be patched up the most.

And while all this is going on, the U23 pro player pool will be growing dramatically. This spring a lot of 81's will be joining the pro ranks after 4 years of college ball and I bet at least 8 and perhaps more underclassmen turn pro next year as well. A lot of those will be D-mids, backs and GKs and it's not impossible for a real Olympic candidate or 2 to emerge from this group that will turn a weakness into a stength.

So, let's let the process play out. Who knows? Perhaps when all is said and done a position like right mid, which right now wouldn't seem like one where we need an overage spot, becomes the biggest candidate.

[Sandon Mibut]

Originally posted by Preston North End
BTW, why do you list Jesus Ochoa? He was born in Mexico. Are you assuming he will have citizenship by early 2004? Does he have it already? He has to have a green card, otherwise he couldn't play pro soccer.
Ochoa has lived in the US since he was a kid and he has a Green Card. I called the Galaxy a couple of monts ago and one of their PR people told me he has started the citizenship process and hopes to become a US citizen in the next year or so.

I figure if his development continues - and at D-mid, he has as good a chance as anyone else - and the USSF sees him as a real option in the back, they can pull a few strings to expidite the citizenship process. I mean, you think Unlce Phil doesn't have a few friends in high places?!?!

[Karl K]

Originally posted by Preston North End
The squad listed by Sandon has more experience in ONE YEAR than the squad that went to Sydney. The numbers above are the career stats through the 1998 MLS regular season and playoffs. Sandon's numbers are through the 2002 MLS regular season.

PNE, thanks for that, it certainly is a helpful palliative.

Everything is relative, and compared to where we were four years ago, it can be argued, as you do so well, that we are in much better shape.

And as Sandon points out, a lot can happen as the younger teams form for the various tournaments coming up on the calendar.

In my view, this next Olympics is another critical milestone in the progress of soccer in this country. The stars continue to align -- we have the five year committment to MLS, some improving attendance figures, the success of the senior team. Things are falling into place.

The Olympics are the next critical stage. Frankly, other than guys like us and the USSF braintrust, no one really gives a hoot about the U17s or U20s. Those teams give new meaning to the phrase "under the radar screen" when it comes to overall visibility and impact on the public at large.

But the Olympics...ah, that's ANOTHER story. Were we to medal there, and -- can we hope? -- win gold, well, BIG TIME PR and visibility.

As a result, we need to get the most professionally seasoned group of guys together, at qualifying and beyond, to really make the high level impact that we all know we can. Failure won't be all that troubling, but success, that is MEDAL success, can have a significant long-term benefits. We have to seize this opportunity and make the most of it.

[Sandon Mibut]

I agree, which is why you can bet the farm that Donovan and Beasley WILL play. The PR that the Olympics provide in this country is too big to not send the 2 best age-eligible players in the pool.

Plus, I really think Landon and Beas want to be there. I mean, these players in this age group are their boys, their friends that they've grown up with and developed together. I think they want to be part of - in fact, lead - this group to Olympic glory on a stage that, in this country (and only in this country) is bigger than the World Cup.