2004-05 NBA thread

[Val1]

Man, do I love Bill Simmons. Maybe next year we'll just have a Bill Simmons thread...

Plus, it is time for me to admit just how wrong I was about Ben Gordon. I thought he was too small and just not that good a shooter, but he's as exciting as the Microwave...

[TheSlipperyOne]

Look, I'm not going to argue that trading away Marbury is the key to success, but each team upgraded its point guard and saw immediate results.

I would.

[TheSlipperyOne]

- Lakers had an aging original Dream Teamer starting at PF. Heat have an original coming off the bench at PF. Granted, it's only Christain Laettner, but I'll take Laettner + Haslem + Mourning + Doleac over Medvedenko + Gimpy Malone any day.

I'd take Haslem alone. One of the most underrated players in the NBA right now. He's averaging 11 PPG, 9 RPG and shooting 53% from the field.

[Microwave]

It's interesting to see that Bill Simmons put Allen Iverson at the #2 for the MVP. From what I've read on this board AI doesn't have many fans but I truly think that Simmons is right about this season, AI has been fantastic and he's the reason why the 76ers are challenging Boston for the Atlantic.


they won without against a wizards team that's probably better than the sixers. Iverson has the sixers playing barely over .500 in the worst division in the entire league and he's an MVP candidate? He has the two highest turnover games this year (12 turnovers in one game and 11 in another) and he's an MVP candidate? He routinely shoots 9 for 27 and he's an MVP candidate? In fact I think the Sixers are 29-38 all time without Iverson, which isn't that much lower than their percentage with iverson.

Bill Simmons article was tongue in cheek, he had Reggie Miller number 8. Reggie is a legend but he's averaging about 14 points a game.


The real MVP candidates this year are 1) Tim Duncan....with him the Spurs were far and away the best team in the league, without him they look mediocre........2) Shaq, same as with Duncan plus he has his team far ahead of where they were last year........3) Nash.....same reasoning as 1 and 2, Nash is the glue that holds the Suns together.........4) Lebron James........was a possible MVPO winner til the cavs went into the tank, but stil without him the cavs are nowhere near the playoffs, a 20 year old dominating games is rare, this guy is amazing 5) Tracy Mcgrady....come on, the Rockets have looked damn good as time this year with a terrible team outside of Yao and Sura........6) Dirk Nowitzki.......one of the top offensive players in the business and has the mavs near the top of the league.........7) Ben Wallace.....ok maybe people won't agree with me here but he does as much on defense as Dirk does on offense so why not? Take him away from Detroit and they suck. 8) Ray Allen.....again I'm going by what the team would be like without him and the Sonics probably suck without a guy running all those screens and disrupting the defense......9) Dwayne Wade.....even when shaq isn't there he has skills.....10) amare stoudimire....hard to argue with the stats........11) Kevin Garnett.....you drop this far when your team is this much worse than the year before. Great player but winning plays a huge part in the MVP to me.........

[Microwave]

Plus, it is time for me to admit just how wrong I was about Ben Gordon. I thought he was too small and just not that good a shooter, but he's as exciting as the Microwave...

thanks

[TheSlipperyOne]

These are all HS players who skipped college and have absolutely nothing in the NBA.


I agree with alot of what you have to say but you got a bit name-happy with your list.


Eddy Curry


This season:

16 PPG
5.5 RPG
54% Shooting

His past seasons were good also.


Shaun Livingston


Injured most of the year. Playing the hardest position in the NBA for a rookie.

Started his first game on March 23 and has started every game since.

In those games he have averaged:

8.7 PPG
6.5 APG

Not bad at all for a rookie PG out of highschool who has been injured all season. Most rookie PGs that played 4 years of college don't get numbers like that.


Sebastian Telfair


Also playing the hardest position in the NBA for a rookie.

Didn't start his first game of the season until the Trailblazers got a new coach. Since his first start on March 4 he has started every game for the Blazers and only played less than 30 minutes in 3 of those games (one of which Damon Stoudamire was too good to take out; he had a triple-double).

Since taking over the starting position Telfair has averaged:

11 PPG
5 APG

Alot of teams would like a PG that could do that for them.

--------

Of course Eddy Curry hasn't had the best attitude since entering the NBA but it has changed for the better this year. Who's to say college would have given him a better attitude. It actually could have gotten worse.

Would going to college have helped Telfair and Livingston? Probably. But they are so much above the norm for their position that it would have been like telling Eddie Johnson to go to college.

[TheSlipperyOne]

It's interesting to see that Bill Simmons put Allen Iverson at the #2 for the MVP. From what I've read on this board AI doesn't have many fans but I truly think that Simmons is right about this season, AI has been fantastic and he's the reason why the 76ers are challenging Boston for the Atlantic.

I'm not an AI fan but he's actually second on my list also with Shaq being first.

But I don't agree with Simmons that the balance of power is shifting to the East.

[Microwave]

I'm not an AI fan but he's actually second on my list also with Shaq being first.

But I don't agree with Simmons that the balance of power is shifting to the East.


how? how is iverson second on your list? what world do you live in?

again he has the sixers barely over .500 in the worst division in the NBA.

How on earth is he more valuable than Tim Duncan or Steve nash? Or Mcgrady even?

[Microwave]

I agree with alot of what you have to say but you got a bit name-happy with your list.



This season:

16 PPG
5.5 RPG
54% Shooting

His past seasons were good also.



Injured most of the year. Playing the hardest position in the NBA for a rookie.

Started his first game on March 23 and has started every game since.

In those games he have averaged:

8.7 PPG
6.5 APG

Not bad at all for a rookie PG out of highschool who has been injured all season. Most rookie PGs that played 4 years of college don't get numbers like that.



Also playing the hardest position in the NBA for a rookie.

Didn't start his first game of the season until the Trailblazers got a new coach. Since his first start on March 4 he has started every game for the Blazers and only played less than 30 minutes in 3 of those games (one of which Damon Stoudamire was too good to take out; he had a triple-double).

Since taking over the starting position Telfair has averaged:

11 PPG
5 APG

Alot of teams would like a PG that could do that for them.

--------

Of course Eddy Curry hasn't had the best attitude since entering the NBA but it has changed for the better this year. Who's to say college would have given him a better attitude. It actually could have gotten worse.

Would going to college have helped Telfair and Livingston? Probably. But they are so much above the norm for their position that it would have been like telling Eddie Johnson to go to college.


some of those guys made me scratch my head but then again, Myhouse is correct in that Curry and Livingston and Telfair would be even better had they went to college and sculpted their game. Curry is a nice player but think about how polished his game would be had he gone to college for 3 or 4 years.

[hangthadj]

Bill Simmons article was tongue in cheek, he had Reggie Miller number 8. Reggie is a legend but he's averaging about 14 points a game.


Yeah, but you watch enough basketaball to know that with all the injuries and suspensions that the Pacers have dealt with, if you take Reggie off that team this year, there is no chance they are anywhere near a playoff spot. Even in the East. Reggie is definately one of the top 10 most "valuable" players in the league this year.

[skipshady]

Yeah, but you watch enough basketaball to know that with all the injuries and suspensions that the Pacers have dealt with, if you take Reggie off that team this year, there is no chance they are anywhere near a playoff spot. Even in the East. Reggie is definately one of the top 10 most "valuable" players in the league this year.
The Pacers are an amazing story and what Reggie has done is nothing short of amazing. Coming into the season, this was the Pacers' starting lineup:
C Foster
PF O'Neal
SF Artest
SG Miller
PG Tinsley

Miller is the only who's been able to play anything close to a full season, and he's carried them. A month ago, they were on the outside looking in. Now they're challenging for the 4th seed in the East. It's not all Reggie, but he's kept the ship from sinking.

[skipshady]

how? how is iverson second on your list? what world do you live in?

again he has the sixers barely over .500 in the worst division in the NBA.

How on earth is he more valuable than Tim Duncan or Steve nash? Or Mcgrady even?In terms of value to the team, he's definitely ahead, possibly ahead of Duncan and not too far behind Nash.

McGrady - remember how the Rockets were struggling early this season and how they've bounced back? It's not because of McGrady. It's because they went out and traded for David Wesley, Jon Barry and Mike James, and Bob Sura came back from injury.

Duncan - He is the best player in the league. I will not debate this point because since it's laughable that anyone else is better. BUT, the Spurs wouldn't be where they are without Parker and Manu, and great bench contributors like Devin Brown and Robert Horry. Yes, Duncan is the best player on the league's best team, but has the team achieved beyond expectations? No (and yes, I realize it's hard for the title favorites to overachieve).

Nash - he's a joy to watch. And he's done exactly what he's paid to do, raise the level of his teammates' game. But really, Shawn Marion has been an all-star for a while and Stoudemire was due for a breakout. If I were voting for MVP, I'd put him just an inch behind Shaq.

Now, we come to Iverson. Look at his teammates - Iguodala, Korver, Dalembert, Green, Salmons. All nice young players, but hardly the makings of a contender. Oh, and Webber. Could Lebron make the playoffs with this team? Maybe, maybe not. Nash? Pierce? Wade? Who knows, but Iverson does have this team in the 8 spot while playing point guard.

He's not the MVP and I know people will always have issues with his style, but you can't deny what he has accomplished for his team this season.

[TheSlipperyOne]

Now, we come to Iverson. Look at his teammates - Iguodala, Korver, Dalembert, Green, Salmons. All nice young players, but hardly the makings of a contender. Oh, and Webber. Could Lebron make the playoffs with this team? Maybe, maybe not. Nash? Pierce? Wade? Who knows, but Iverson does have this team in the 8 spot while playing point guard.

He's not the MVP and I know people will always have issues with his style, but you can't deny what he has accomplished for his team this season.

A 6-0 PG averaging 30.5 PPG, 8 APG, 2.5 SPG and 4 RPG.

[hangthadj]

People will always have issues with Iverson, and this season won't ever change any minds. But, this is by far his best season. Even better than when the Sixers went to the finals. Point to the 12 turnover game, fine. But also point to the 15 assist game.

Point to the fact that as much of a ball hog as he supposedly is, he has been near or in the top 5 in assists all season. That's with Igo and Daulembert dropping about 50% of the balls they are passed this season. tow pairs of stone hands if I've ever seen them,

Point towards the fact that the Sixers rarely blow anyone out, and usually they need every single one of his 30ppg to get victories.

He's gotta be taken into consideration for MVP. McGrady at this point really isn't even close, and how people can respect McGrady but hate AI is something I'll never understand.

[TheSlipperyOne]

some of those guys made me scratch my head but then again, Myhouse is correct in that Curry and Livingston and Telfair would be even better had they went to college and sculpted their game. Curry is a nice player but think about how polished his game would be had he gone to college for 3 or 4 years.

MyHouse! said those guys have done "absolutely nothing in the NBA". Obviously my post refuted that. He threw in those 3 players (all lottery picks) with guys who actually have done nothing in the NBA and who really should have gone to college.

I then said that college probably would have been nice for Curry, Telfair and Livingston but not required using my Eddie Johnson analogy.

As I've said before I have no problem with the 20 year age rule and I have no problem pointing out guys that should have gone to college but there are obviously some that college wouldn't have been necessary for.

If you want to look at numbers of their rookie years then Kobe, Jermaine and KG should have gone to college and not straight to the NBA.

[Eddie26]

People will always have issues with Iverson, and this season won't ever change any minds. But, this is by far his best season. Even better than when the Sixers went to the finals. Point to the 12 turnover game, fine. But also point to the 15 assist game.

Point to the fact that as much of a ball hog as he supposedly is, he has been near or in the top 5 in assists all season. That's with Igo and Daulembert dropping about 50% of the balls they are passed this season. tow pairs of stone hands if I've ever seen them,

Point towards the fact that the Sixers rarely blow anyone out, and usually they need every single one of his 30ppg to get victories.

He's gotta be taken into consideration for MVP. McGrady at this point really isn't even close, and how people can respect McGrady but hate AI is something I'll never understand.

Handthedj, we agree FAR too often...,must be the Philly influence. Anyone who has seen Iverson play this year, all year, would have to say he's top 2 for MVP. Even Stephen A would agree.

[hangthadj]

Handthedj, we agree FAR too often...,must be the Philly influence. Anyone who has seen Iverson play this year, all year, would have to say he's top 2 for MVP. Even Stephen A would agree.


That's gotta be it.

Can we agree also that Stephen A Smith sucks, and we wish he would just stop writing for the Inquirer and fall off the planet completely?

[Eddie26]

That's gotta be it.

Can we agree also that Stephen A Smith sucks, and we wish he would just stop writing for the Inquirer and fall off the planet completely?

I totally agree...as long as we can also agree that me+Stoli and coke+Chelsea vs Bayern on ESPN2 in the CL = me not getting done my history paper tonight before the Phillies game!

[simon99]

Yes AI must be at least in the top 5 of everyone who follow the NBA, but he isn't good enough for Microwave top 11.

Microwave, you are pointing at AI TO per games, but two players in your top 11 would have appoximately the same TO numbers as AI if they would play the same amount of minutes (Wade and Nash). And they are playing with better players.

[ibreak4coffee]

FWIW, they don't allow players to turn pro until 14, and even then, they can only play a limited number of events until they turn 18. I believe Hingis and Venus Williams were the last big names to turn pro before they put in the limits.

Yes I know this... my point was that they still allow 14 year old girls to play in major tournaments... but your clarification is valid.