2004-05 NBA thread

[Metros Striker10]

This statement smacks of a lot of denial... do you think the Knicks are the only team that's had injury problems? What about Indiana, San Antonio, or even Orlando? Can you imagine where this edition of the Knicks would be if they lost all their best players. Actually, that might not be a bad thing. Step and Crawford will never run a successful team... up front you gave up your most consistent front court man for Malik Rose, who won't bring anything to the Knicks that you dont already have... and all this was overseen until recently by a coach who should have never been hired by Toronto in 1999, let alone the Knicks in 2003. Where's the young talent too that will take over from the overpaid old men? Ariza and Sweeney may be NBA worthy, but they arent going to take a team deep in the playoffs...

One remark...Nazr Mohammed was consistant? Thanks...

[ibreak4coffee]

One remark...Nazr Mohammed was consistant? Thanks...

No he wasnt. That's the point though... he was still the best option. That's why San Antonio wanted him and not Thomas.

[Metros Striker10]

No, Kurt Thomas was the guy that everyone wanted, but Isiah didn't want to trade because he is without a doubt better then Nazr is. Since Sprewell left, KT has been the best defender on the Knicks. That comment of yours was exactly what the media was saying after the trade. Once the games were played, a complete 180 turn.

I told you guys the Cavs were going to go downhill after the firing of Silas. He should have finished the year.

[BorrachoNJ]

hudson river matchup tonite, baby!

[Microwave]

So I now know what it's like to get old. When you see the beginning of a players career all the way to the end (if it's a long career) then you start to feel old.

I remember Ewing, Malone, Stockton, Jordan, Pippen all as rookies and all retire. Now Reggie Miller is the last of that generation (players who started in the 80's) and once he's done it's the end of my generation. Ok Kevin Willis is still playing I guess but that's about it.

There is something comforting though to see so many guys I grew up watching now on TV (mark jackson, greg anthony, barkley) or involved in management (joe dumars, danny ainge, larry bird, isiah thomas) or coaching (kevin mchale, byron scott, herb williams).

[BorrachoNJ]

when is kurt rambis gonna coach again?

[Ian McCracken]

Eastern Conference Finals preview tomorrow (ABC, 1 ET): Detroit at Miami

I'm predicting the Pistons send a little message the Heat's way.

[Microwave]

Eastern Conference Finals preview tomorrow (ABC, 1 ET): Detroit at Miami

I'm predicting the Pistons send a little message the Heat's way.


It doesn't really matter though, Shaq might not even play due to a stomach virus. The HEat have the number 1 seed and Detroit virtually has the number 2 seed locked up so I doubt the two teams will go full out.

I do think Detroit will beat Miami in the playoffs though.

[Ian McCracken]

Pistons beat Miami, 80-72. One thing this game showed me, despite Shaq not playing, is that Miami has NO shot in a seven game series against Detroit. Other than Shaq and Wade, Miami is horrible. The Lakers tried a two man game against the Pistons last year and were destroyed, and Kobe is a better player than Wade. In fact, I would not be surprised to see Miami crash out against either Chicago or Indiana in the second round.

[skipshady]

Bill Simmons ranks the MVP candidates from 425 to 1: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050408&num=0
135. Lamar Odom
Remember the SNL sketch about the Time-Life series for videos of family dysfunction, when every vignette (Thanksgiving, Easter, birthday, etc.) ended with Will Ferrell suddenly flipping over the dinner table and screaming, "That's it, [bleep] this, I'm out of here!" From January to March, after watching Kobe go one-on-three one too many times, I kept waiting for Odom to do this – just flip over the press table and scream, "That's it, [bleep] this, I'm out of here!" Instead, he went on the DL with a fake injury. Wise move. I wouldn't want to be his bong right now.

[ibreak4coffee]

Bill Simmons ranks the MVP candidates from 425 to 1: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/050408&num=0

These are pretty good too

30. Jalen Rose
Provided an insane amount of comedy over these past few months, including these classics:

"There's always going to be criticism when your name is Jalen. You have to wear a bulletproof vest and be ready for it."
– Jalen on himself

"Was it for Richard Jefferson?"
– Jalen after hearing that Carter had been traded to New Jersey

"I'm a GM in fantasy basketball and I'm a GM on PlayStation, so on PlayStation I probably would have got a little more, but this is real life, so I don't know."
– Jalen on the Vince Carter trade

"He probably was a little tired from All-Star Weekend. While he was running up and down the court throwing it off the backboard, I was laying on the beach drinking a fruity drink with an umbrella. So I probably gave myself an unfair advantage on that one."
– Jalen explaining why he outplayed Carter two days after the All-Star Game

"I've got to stop this. My entourages are getting entourages."
– Jalen on the trouble of finding tickets for everyone when he returns to Detroit

(And my personal favorite ... )

"Like I told the guys earlier, once he turns 21 and is able to drink, it's over."
– Jalen after LeBron scored 56 on the Raptors

[biggyv]

Pistons beat Miami, 80-72. One thing this game showed me, despite Shaq not playing, is that Miami has NO shot in a seven game series against Detroit. Other than Shaq and Wade, Miami is horrible. The Lakers tried a two man game against the Pistons last year and were destroyed, and Kobe is a better player than Wade. In fact, I would not be surprised to see Miami crash out against either Chicago or Indiana in the second round.
Making an assessment of the Heat without Shaq playing is absurd.

[dark knight]

In fact, I would not be surprised to see Miami crash out against either Chicago or Indiana in the second round.

Wow - that's a pretty bold statement -- I'll be really shocked if it's not Pistons vs. Heat in the East. I'm really looking forward to it. The reason this year's two-man game is better than last year's is because there is good chemistry between the two players -- Dwyane Wade isn't going to pull a Cobi and stop passing to particular players. I'm also betting that Miami's supporting cast is more competent than the Lakers stiffs were last year.

[skipshady]

Wow - that's a pretty bold statement -- I'll be really shocked if it's not Pistons vs. Heat in the East. I'm really looking forward to it. The reason this year's two-man game is better than last year's is because there is good chemistry between the two players -- Dwyane Wade isn't going to pull a Cobi and stop passing to particular players. I'm also betting that Miami's supporting cast is more competent than the Lakers stiffs were last year.
That's what I'm thinking too. Here are the factors that put the 2005 Heat over the 2004 Lakers:
- Wade isn't afraid to take the big shot but looks to get others involved. Kobe looks for every shot and is afraid to get others involved.

- Gary Payton was absolutely miserable out there, completely left out of the triangle offense. Damon Jones is just happy to be on a playoff team, left out open outside the 3-point line.

- Lakers had an aging original Dream Teamer starting at PF. Heat have an original coming off the bench at PF. Granted, it's only Christain Laettner, but I'll take Laettner + Haslem + Mourning + Doleac over Medvedenko + Gimpy Malone any day.

[Eddie26]

Anyone see the quotes from Jermaine O'Neal about an age limit in the NBA being racist??

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2035132

Here's one quote, "There were seven high school players in the All-Star Game, so why we even talking an age limit?" O'Neal said."

Maybe young Jermaine, there should be an age limit so you can go to college and take remedial English. It's just rediculous to think that the NBA of all leagues, is racist. They cater to the black fan more than any other league and embrace the "hip-hop" lifestyle that is tainting the black youths of America by giving the impression that hard work doesn't pay, school sucks, make money fast and by any means necessary, women are hoes, you don't need anyone but yourself, demand respect and don't earn it, etc.

Sorry to get all sociological on you all. The article just bugged me. Jermain O'Neal is everything that's wrong with the NBA. We need more Kevin Garnett's in this world. The league is filled with black players who are stand up, classy individuals (and great role models) but they don't get marketed by the league.

Sorry, rant over.

[skipshady]

Jermain O'Neal is everything that's wrong with the NBA.I don't agree with a word JO said, but I should point out that he is one of the good guys in the NBA. Other than that punch he threw against the Ben Wallace entourage member (which was well deserved, imho), O'Neal has been an excellent role model.

And while he's dead wrong about the age limit being racist, I do see why he might think that. No one bats an eye when a teenagers go pro in golf, tennis or baseball, or most sports where black players aren't the overwhelming majority.

But of course, it's not a perfect comparison - tennis players and golf players get their shot right away. There's no Darko Milicic riding the bench in figure skating. And baseball players can come up slowly in the minor leagues - and what JO doesn't realize is that the NBA does plan to have a full fledged NBDL. Players can learn the trade and get paid legally. They even plan to keep a rookie scale comparable to the current one.

Ultimately, it's (more or less) not racist and all about money. NBA wants to minimize the cost of developing players. It used to be that colleges would do it for free, and make household names of players before they got to the league.

Now, the league wants the NCAA to shoulder the costs again, and with players who don't go to college, the NBA wants a more effective development program than bench warming. Minimize costs, maximize investments.

[MyHouse!]

No, Jermaine here are the top reasons for the NBA Age limit

Taj McDavid
Korleone Young
Ellis Richardson
Leon Smith
DeShawn Stevenson
Kwame Brown
Eddy Curry
DeSagana Diop
Ousmane Cisse
Tony Key
DeAngelo Collins
Lenny Cooke
Travis Outlaw
Ndudi Ebi
Kendrick Perkins
James Lang
Shaun Livingston
Sebastian Telfair
Robert Swift
Jackie Butler

These are all HS players who skipped college and have absolutely nothing in the NBA. For every Kobe, Jermaine and LeBron we have the guys on this list

I remember a time when good rookies came out of college and were ready to contribute because they had skills that they were taught to them on the college level. That's simply not the case anymore. Kids seem to be willing to come out of HS (and early out of college) and ride the pine because they're getting paid. What it's done is lower the skill level of the NBA. Jermaine thinks that the fact that there were several All-Stars who skipped college points to the fact that the league is all right. No. they have lowered the skill level and have allowed players who 10 years ago wouldn't even be drafted let alone play, develop into all stars. As good as LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony were in the NBA they got a rude awakening as to how far they need to go when they found themselves on the bench during the Olympics.

What Jermaine and others needs to recognize is that in professional basketball in this country there is no developmental system. There are no minor leagues where players can develop the skills and understanding of the game necessary to become top pros, unlike in baseball or tennis (junior circuit) or soccer (internationally at least). It's either NBA or bust. What 20 year old who has not made it in the NBA is going to Istanbul to play? In college not only did you have a chance to learn from some of the best teaching coaches in the game but you also had a chance to help prepare for life after basketball. Yes, college is not for everyone, but quite frankly you have the opportunity to get life skills as well as basketball skills, you're almost crazy for not taking advantage of it As a Black attorney, I would certainly like to see more young brothers make an effort to achieve academically as well as athletically.

No Jermaine, it's not about racism. It's about raising the game back to the level it was when NBA was THE game in America. Back when centers had skills like Ewing, and Olajuwaon, guards could shoot like Glen Rice and Mark Price and even athletic players like Drexler knew how to win. That's the game I miss and loved more than anything, even more than I love soccer now.

But even more, it's about giving these kids a chance to actually make a career and have a chance to do more than play 3 years and go do something else.

I remember Stephon Marbury once saying, "4 years of college didn't do anything for Randolph Childress." Maybe, but it did a world of good for Tim Duncan and quite frankly, Marbury wishes he has the career Duncan has.

[simon99]

It's interesting to see that Bill Simmons put Allen Iverson at the #2 for the MVP. From what I've read on this board AI doesn't have many fans but I truly think that Simmons is right about this season, AI has been fantastic and he's the reason why the 76ers are challenging Boston for the Atlantic.

[ibreak4coffee]

I don't agree with a word JO said, but I should point out that he is one of the good guys in the NBA. Other than that punch he threw against the Ben Wallace entourage member (which was well deserved, imho), O'Neal has been an excellent role model.

And while he's dead wrong about the age limit being racist, I do see why he might think that. No one bats an eye when a teenagers go pro in golf, tennis or baseball, or most sports where black players aren't the overwhelming majority.

But of course, it's not a perfect comparison - tennis players and golf players get their shot right away. There's no Darko Milicic riding the bench in figure skating. And baseball players can come up slowly in the minor leagues - and what JO doesn't realize is that the NBA does plan to have a full fledged NBDL. Players can learn the trade and get paid legally. They even plan to keep a rookie scale comparable to the current one.

Ultimately, it's (more or less) not racist and all about money. NBA wants to minimize the cost of developing players. It used to be that colleges would do it for free, and make household names of players before they got to the league.

Now, the league wants the NCAA to shoulder the costs again, and with players who don't go to college, the NBA wants a more effective development program than bench warming. Minimize costs, maximize investments.

Tennis has talked for a long time about imposing age limits, mostly though because women (girls) are turning pro at 12 and 13... unfortunately, old men like staring at young girls under 18, it has helped ratings, so nothing's been done... but you do see people like Martina Hingis ending their careers at 21 because they started so young. Something should be done in this case...

Hockey is a bad example. Few guys are ready to jump into the league at 18. Generally, even first round picks go to the minors or juniors until they are 22 or 23... it isnt the same as in basketball, where guys are thrown straight into the league, and in many cases where they are asked to shoulder a big load. Of course in b-ball there are no real minors, so this isnt an option.

I can see where Jermaine is coming from - its documented how black coaches get a shorter leash than white ones - but I think he's wrong here. The reason that more black guys will get the short end of this stick is simply because they represent a disproportionate amount of players entering the NBA. Other posts here have shown the amount of flops in the league. For every Lebron or Garnett there are 20 DeSagana Diop's.

[skipshady]

Tennis has talked for a long time about imposing age limits, mostly though because women (girls) are turning pro at 12 and 13... unfortunately, old men like staring at young girls under 18, it has helped ratings, so nothing's been done... but you do see people like Martina Hingis ending their careers at 21 because they started so young. Something should be done in this case...FWIW, they don't allow players to turn pro until 14, and even then, they can only play a limited number of events until they turn 18. I believe Hingis and Venus Williams were the last big names to turn pro before they put in the limits.
Hockey is a bad example. Few guys are ready to jump into the league at 18. Generally, even first round picks go to the minors or juniors until they are 22 or 23... it isnt the same as in basketball, where guys are thrown straight into the league, and in many cases where they are asked to shoulder a big load. Of course in b-ball there are no real minors, so this isnt an option.Eventually, the NBA will expand the NBDL to 15 teams, with each team roster shared by two NBA teams. Drafted players will earn NBA salaries but play in the NBDL until they're ready. This is a good first step IMHO.

What I would like to see is NBA and NCAA working something out so a drafted player can play in college while the team retains his rights. It works for NBA because teams don't have to pay the player until he's ready, and the NCAA doesn't have to worry about a player turning pro just because he's projected too high, like Devin Harris in last year's draft.
The reason that more black guys will get the short end of this stick is simply because they represent a disproportionate amount of players entering the NBA. Other posts here have shown the amount of flops in the league. For every Lebron or Garnett there are 20 DeSagana Diop's.Yep. In a perfect world, players and teams will make the decisions that are right for them. But it's clear that the NBA needs to protect them from themselves.