Kevin Stott:: NY/NJ vs DC United (playoff Match 1) :: Referee Thread [R][N&A]

[JayRockers!]

Thanks to mutinywxgirl who found this even though we've all been looking all day!

METROSTARS v D.C. UNITED
Sat., Oct. 23, Giants Stadium (7:30 p.m. ET; FSW; MSG, CSN-DC)

REFEREE: Kevin Stott.
SAR (bench): Chris Strickland; JAR (opposite): Nate Clement; 4th: Erich Simmons

INJURY REPORT: METROSTARS - OUT: MD Mark Lisi (R ankle sprain); DF Tenywa Bonseu (L Achilles tendon tear); DOUBTFUL: MD Michael Bradley (R foot stress fracture) ... D.C. UNITED - OUT: FW Thiago Martins (L knee surgery)
INTERNATIONAL ABSENCES: none
SUSPENDED: MET: Craig Ziadie (through Oct. 23)
YELLOW PERIL: none

LEAGUE HEAD-TO-HEAD: MET 14 wins, 55 gls; DC 20 wins, 72 gls; 2 ties
2004 HEAD-TO-HEAD: DC 3 wins, 12 gls; MET 1 win, 7 gls; 0 ties
AT GIANTS STADIUM:
4/17: MET 3 - 2 DC (Taylor 50, 63; Wolyniec 57 - Olsen 26, Adu 75)
10/2: MET 0 - 1 NE (Adu 16)
MLS CUP PLAYOFFS: MET 1 win, 3 gls; DC 2 wins, 5 gls

Game Preview (http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_events_news.jsp?ymd=20041022&content_id=17440&vkey=mlscup2004&fext=.jsp)

Ref Index

Stott's DC games this season

SJ @ DC, 4/3/04
DC @ CH, 6/5/04
LA @ DC, 7/17/04
DC @ NY, 10/02/04

Thx,

Jay!

[mutinywxgirl]

My pleasure! I had been told that if the Metros ended up in 3rd, that several of these folks were coming back. If they were in 2nd, then I didn't know the crew....just one of the quirks of having worked with referees in the past - I know quite a few of them...and it just depends on how the assignments go whether or not I know about them in advance.

Here's to a great game by all the officials!

Oh, and btw - I still want you guys to win!

[revelation]

Just a word of encouragement...

I'm blind
I'm deaf
I wanna be a ref...
I'm blind
I'm deaf
I wanna be a ref...

:)

[Footer Phooter]

Stotts OK.

[Primate]

As an aside, I encourage anyone who hates refs, or think they suck to try and seriously be one for a season at least and see what it's like.
I've done so this fall and it's opened my eyes a great deal and I'm mostly doing U11-14 games with a few girl JV and varsity games thrown in.

It's not an easy job by any means and you really have to enjoy it to put up with the BS coaches and parents throw your way.

[Section106]

As an aside, I encourage anyone who hates refs, or think they suck to try and seriously be one for a season at least and see what it's like.
I've done so this fall and it's opened my eyes a great deal and I'm mostly doing U11-14 games with a few girl JV and varsity games thrown in.

It's not an easy job by any means and you really have to enjoy it to put up with the BS coaches and parents throw your way.


You're a better man than I, Primate.

[pablo1neum]

As an aside, I encourage anyone who hates refs, or think they suck to try and seriously be one for a season at least and see what it's like.
I've done so this fall and it's opened my eyes a great deal and I'm mostly doing U11-14 games with a few girl JV and varsity games thrown in.

It's not an easy job by any means and you really have to enjoy it to put up with the BS coaches and parents throw your way.

Amen brother. After my knees sent me to the sidelines I tried officiating for a few seasons (girls also). Unblievable what the parents do. Every ref is gonna blow some calls, but the reactions now are way over the top.

Overall I thought Stott had a pretty good game tonight.
1) I'm still not sure if Stewart was onsides even after seeing the Comcast replay, but that was the side judge call.
2)I was a little annoyed with the NY embelishments on the fouls, but hey, that's part of the game.
3) Guevarra seemed to really be mouthy tonight. Seemed like he was hollering at Stott after every play.

[Section106]

Can someone explain to me why Stott didn't give any Metrodonkeys a card tonight? Guevara deserved a couple, IMO, for protesting, for grabbing jerseys and for simply being a Scum. How Stott could show a card to any of our guys without doing the same to the Scum just goes to show you how inconsistent he and the rest of MLS refs are. Why did Gros get a card when he was jumping for a 50/50 ball in a scoring situation? Dema didn't do anything more than the Metropukes had done all game up until that point. And how did Cornell Glen's theatrics buy Nellie a card? Glen should have been carded for simulation.

[eltico]

Dema's card got no argument here (nor from Dema, surprisingly enough).

Pretty much the same with Nelsen's card. Glen was getting in behind, Nelsen had to foul him. Glen embellished and acted like a chump, but it was clearly a professional foul.

Gros didn't get a card. Regan did for dissent. I was confused by that because it seemed that Stott showed the card to Regan but CSN posted Gros as having received the card. However, MLSnet has Regan listed as receiving a card for dissent.

Guevara could have arguably been booked for dissent, and Glen for unsporting behavior. However, Guevara did seem to know where Stott had drawn the invisible line, and he managed not to cross it. Every time he was complaining and Stott began to glare at him, he stopped. Additionally, I thought Glen embellished numerous fouls, but I can only remember one that could have merited a card -- midway through the second half, 25 yards from goal, he tried to split Nelsen and Namoff or Carroll (I don't remember which), Nelsen touched him, and Glen fell as if Olsen had come swooping in and hit him in the back of the head with a two-by-four. But Stott bought it and called the foul; that's how life goes.

[mutinywxgirl]

Johnny Walker was carded right after Stewart's goal.....it was probably not shown because of the celebration down in front of the DCU fans. Guaranteed it was for dissent.

Also, at the end of the game, Guevara was restrained from coming towards the officials. It was NOT a pretty sight.

[Section106]

I still don't like Stott.

[BudWiser]

Just saw the replay.

????????Stewart was offisdes by 10 yards????????

I don't get why it wasn't called. Nobody does!!! :D

[Lowecifer]

Just saw the replay.

????????Stewart was offisdes by 10 yards????????

I don't get why it wasn't called. Nobody does!!! :D

What broadcast were you watching? The one I watched never showed a decent replay.

[BudWiser]

What broadcast were you watching? The one I watched never showed a decent replay.

Shootout. MSG. Anybody can get a replay. Put it in slo-mo.

Earnie's offsides by 10 yards. I just looked at it in slo-mo.

And I don't feel like arguing about it-it's my feeling it was offsides, it's my feeling anybody who looks at the replay would make that conclusion, it's my feeling it was blatantly obvious, and it's my feeling DC played a good game and deserved a 0-0 score. I could be wrong I suppose, but I'd like to know about it.

That's all I've got, carry on.......

[Sanguine]

Shootout. MSG. Anybody can get a replay. Put it in slo-mo.


Stewart and the ball being played weren't on the screen at the same time. Slo-mo doesn't help one iota.

[Real Ray]

Stewart and the ball being played weren't on the screen at the same time. Slo-mo doesn't help one iota.
http://www.geocities.com/castmind/st3.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/castmind/ste4.JPG

It's true, that he's not in the picture at the moment he strikes the ball, but from the earliest moment, when you break down the tape, it's hard to see how he could been onside.

[Sanguine]

http://www.geocities.com/castmind/st3.JPG
http://www.geocities.com/castmind/ste4.JPG

It's true, that he's not in the picture at the moment he strikes the ball, but from the earliest moment, when you break down the tape, it's hard to see how he could been onside.

I've seen it happen where players get that far behind the defense legitimately. Just because he looks way offside a second later, doesn't mean he was way offside when the ball was played. If he's running to the right, and the last defender was running left at the time the ball was played, he very well could have been onside. We just can't tell from those pictures.

What is more telling is that in post-game comments, Stewart himself said this:

"In all honesty with the four [offside] calls I had all game I thought the first one was offside and the other two I felt they weren't offside, and this one I did feel, or somebody said I was off, but in the end you get some and you don't get some. I don't know I would have to see, I have a feeling it would be very close, but in the end, we'll take it."

he thought it was close but that he was maybe a little bit off. From those pictures, it doesn't look like it was any kind of close, but I'm willing to bet that with a proper angle it was within a yard or 2 either way.

[Father Ted]

Stewart and the ball being played weren't on the screen at the same time.

Thats because he was so far offside he wasnt even in the same screen frame.

[eltico]

I disagree wholeheartedly.

In the first frame, there is a Metro player at the 34 1/2 yard line. The ball is already in the air. They were all moving forward. So, when the ball was played (and let's give them the benefit of the doubt that they were moving slowly, as it was the second half) let's say they were at the 31 or 32 when it was played. In the second frame, Stewart is at the 23. Could he have done those 8 or 9 yards in the time the ball left Nelsen's foot until we see the second frame? Yes, yes he most certainly could have.

In instances like that, when the ball hangs in the air for a year and a half, a player running full speed toward the goal while the defenders are moving (even jogging) away from the goal can create a situation in which the player is 10, 20, even 30 yards behind where the defenders currently are as he receives the ball.

May he have been offside? Yes. He definitely could have been offside. But saying that because he was out of the screen frame when the ball was in the air or that because he received the ball 30 yards behind defenders makes it clear that he was offside when the ball was played is jumping to conclusions.

[Daniel le Rouge]

The last defender on the extreme far side is lagging a bit behind the others.

I've seen three or four replays, including one that was almost definitive, but I only got one look at it, and that was briefly. None of the TV replays are of much use.

The play was MUCH closer than it looked. The ball had to travel 30 yards just to get to the offside line. That takes about a second and a half to two seconds. At a full sprint, Earnie can cover between 15 and 18 yards in that time (world-class sprinters can get close to 22 yards). It is quite possible that the run was timed perfectly so that he was passing the offside line when the ball was struck.

At any rate, the flight of the ball was about forty yards, and took approximately three seconds. The distance from the offside line to the point where Earnie met the ball was a touch less than 20 yards. Earnie could quite easily have covered 20 yards in 3 seconds. To be blunt, I think he was probably slightly off, but it was nowhere near as egregiously bad as Mutts fans would have you believe.

Besides, it's not like they're giving us the '98 MLS Cup back, so what's the beef? At least the Mutts get another chance.