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Gregoriak
22 Oct 2004, 04:37 PM
I found this article at planetworldcup http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/ruud20010525.html

The author is Dutch, and he comes to the conclusion 'yes'...

Johan Cruijff cost Holland two World Cups

Holland has been known for an attacking, entertaining style of football throughout the last 30 years. One of the masterminds behind their style was Johan Cruijff, the elegant dribbler and good finisher, who also set up attacks while showing his teammates where to go. What a blessing to have him around? By no means! The presence of Cruijff, and most of all his struggle for power behind the scenes, cost Holland dear. To be more exact, two World Cup titles! On the field, Johan Cruijff has been one of the best things that could ever happen to Dutch football, off the field he has been the worst by far.

Jan van Beveren, the extremely talented PSV-goalkeeper, was a man who played for the crowd. A wizard, capable of doing magical things between the posts. The best Holland had ever had, by a mile. Cruijff and Van Beveren, the biggest row in Dutch football history. With the most dramatic consequences. They must have been enemies since they first met. The tall and flexible Van Beveren opposed very heavily to all privileges Cruijff had in the Dutch squad: arriving late for trainingcamps, not having to play at all because of business-affaires, smoking in the dressingroom. And, like so often in Holland, it was about money. Van Beveren, not afraid of standing up against the emancipated Ajax-players, said: we're in it together, everyone has to work for a good result, so we all have the same rights and the same duties. But that was not the case in the Holland-team, Cruijff was the "animal to be created equal, but a little more equal than the others".

When Van Beveren got injured badly in 1973, Cruijff immediately took his chance to get rid of this powerthreatening teammate. With his big influence on coaches, he talked Amsterdam-born Jan Jongbloed into the squad for the World Cup 1974. He was a rather mediocre, elderly goalkeeper who previously had played just one cap, as a substitute in 1962. Of course Jongbloed, who never in his life had expected this invitation, gladly accepted a role in Cruijff's shadow, where Van Beveren - with the world at his feet - wanted to win the title and to get global recognition for the superb goalie he was. With both Cruijff and Van Beveren in the team, it had been to be seen who would have been considered as the greatest star in the Dutch team. Cruijff knew it, couldn't accept another superman beside him and persuaded coach Rinus Michels to draft in Jongbloed. Van Beveren still could have made it to the finals, since he had recovered in may. He just needed one or two weeks to regain match-fitness. But Michels urged him to play a meaningless testgame against Hamburger SV, or to stay at home. Other more or less injured players got the chance to prove their fitness until a couple of days before travelling to Germany. Van Beveren, had he gotten the same opportunity, would have been fit for the first match against Uruguay. It wasn't to be, Holland lost the final after conceding two soft goals.

Between 1974 and 1978, Cruijff again managed to keep his big rival out of the team. Because Van Beveren was in his best form they just couldn't ignore him, again the were some quarrels (Van Beveren left the team in 1975 but came back later) and in the end he was left on the bench behind three different goalkeepers. When he asked Jan Zwartkruis why he had been picked at all when it was clear that he would never play, the coach said: "Jan, don't blame, I am being manipulated. I have no chance." Cruijff had threatened never to play for Holland again, with Van Beveren in the same team. And the Dutch people would never have forgiven the coach, who let Cruijff go. Van Beveren knew enough, withdrew from the Dutch team after 32 caps. It was 1977, the world's best goalkeeper was just 29 years of age.

Jan van Beveren is the best goalkeeper the world has ever seen. But he's never recognized as the best, and that is mainly because he never made it to the stage of the World Cup. And that is because he wasn't a part of the Ajax-clan of the seventies. Everybody may say I'm crazy, I don't mind. I can judge him, I've seen many games of him, I can compare him to other goalies and .... I have a sense of soccer. He could stop shots like I've never seen anybody doing, and in a majestical style. He would have saved Müllers soft shot easily, with both eyes closed and with his left hand bound on his back. He would have had a fair chance to save Breitner's weak penalty-kick. Don't ever think that Van Beveren would have allowed Kempes and Bertoni to squeeze through and take Argentina to the worldtitle. With Jan van Beveren as their goalkeeper, Holland would have been World Cup winners in 1974 and 1978. Cruijff also wanted to be a world champion, but only if he could be the one and only star himself. And it proved to be not enough.

Teso Dos Bichos
22 Oct 2004, 05:08 PM
That's a very interesting article. If all of the facts are true, then that puts Cruijff down a few rungs in my estimation. I've heard of Jan van Beveren, but I haven't seen enough of him to say whether he was the best or not. Let's see what others have to say.

unclesox
22 Oct 2004, 05:08 PM
FYI, here's a link to (what I think is) a neat web page I found by accident. It's dedicated to the '74 Dutch World Cup squad. On the left side of the page is a link to similar page on the '78 World Cup squad.

http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~goldkeep/Holland74/index.htm

In the "qualification" section, the author briefly mentions van Beveren's absence from the squad that went to Germany:

"Of those who played in the qualifiers, several would not appear in the tournament proper.... Regular goalkeeper Jan van Beveren of PSV Eindhoven would also be absent during the tournament for reasons which partly involved injury but were allegedly more to do with his uncomfortable relationship with Cruyff."

Dr. Wankler
22 Oct 2004, 05:16 PM
I think having the misfortune of running into the host nation in back-to-back World Cup Championship matches had a lot more to do with it.

tpmazembe
22 Oct 2004, 05:29 PM
I found this article at planetworldcup http://www.planetworldcup.com/GUESTS/ruud20010525.html

The author is Dutch, and he comes to the conclusion 'yes'...

Johan Cruijff cost Holland two World CupsVery interesting article indeed. If - big "if" -this is so, it could not have helped Holland; whether it explains their defeats is another matter.

We see time and again that many of the greats had big egos and that these sort of "crowd-outs" of potential teammates have occured through footballing history (DiStefano/Didi, Beckenbauer/Netzer, Maradona/Pasarella).

As we discussed in the Draft of Drafts thread, Johan is culpable for letting his teammates down at WC'78 by pulling out under some rather dubious pretext.

tedwar
22 Oct 2004, 05:46 PM
How is 'I don't want to go to Argentina' dubious?

He helped them qualify and from what I understand, was always clear (for Cruyff) that he wasn't going to Argentina.

I think Dr Wankler is a lot closer to the truth here.

If Rep's (??) shot from a tough angle goes in, do they even get out of the stadium alive?

Tony

tpmazembe
22 Oct 2004, 05:55 PM
How is 'I don't want to go to Argentina' dubious? TonyIts dubious because he intially claimed it was as a protest against the dictatorship, and several years later articles came out citing his wife's unhapiness with "shenanigans" on the team being the real reason. Someone with more insight should jump in and help clarify; but either way, did he go through the qualifications with the forewarning "If we qualify, I will not serve" ?

If your best player and captain leaves prior to the cup it has to have an effect on your team. I don't think it was positive...but who knows...

tpmazembe
22 Oct 2004, 06:44 PM
It becomes more fascinating the closer you look. Cryuff did indeed participate in the WC'78 Qualifiers http://www.rsssf.com/tables/78qual.html.

Did he really indicate that his participation stopped at the qualifiers? If he did, why on earth would the Dutch federation go along with that? Would it not have been better to wean the team away from him sooner rather than later?

Any Dutch football experts out there to help enlighten?

OmiKell
22 Oct 2004, 06:53 PM
Netherlands national sport: blaming each other.

Holland arrogance DID cost 4 World Cups and few other Euros. Successively, Gullit/Koeman/Rijkaard and Davids/Seedorf/De Boer(s) teams were the best in the world. They never managed to win anything big (Except Euro 88) and they even not qualified for Japan 2002.

I'm always disappointed by dutch team's lack of professionalism.

ruudboy
22 Oct 2004, 07:19 PM
The 88 team was better,with better stars and better attitudes.

dor02
22 Oct 2004, 10:01 PM
The 88 team was better,with better stars and better attitudes.

That's true. They looked like a team that wanted to win.

dor02
22 Oct 2004, 10:07 PM
Cruyff is just a guy with too many problems. He is just plain nuts. Jongbloed was a dud. It wouldn't have made a difference if Van Beveren was in. Every Dutch player wants things to go his way and they all have an idiotic mentality. That's what had cost them in 74. In 1978 it was just bad luck that Rensenbrink's shot hit a post.

Excape Goat
23 Oct 2004, 10:57 AM
[QUOTE=OmiKell]Netherlands national sport: blaming each other.

Holland arrogance DID cost 4 World Cups and few other Euros. Successively, Gullit/Koeman/Rijkaard and Davids/Seedorf/De Boer(s) teams were the best in the world. They never managed to win anything big (Except Euro 88) and they even not qualified for Japan 2002.



Yep, the Dutch teams never seemed to get along.

BongartzUndRivera
29 Apr 2005, 05:52 PM
Based on the article my conclusion was NO for WC74, because I have no idea how the author could judge the gaols to be a goalie's mistake.
The autho probably never played football himself.

For WC78, YES not because of van Beveren, but because Krrayffy boycotted the WC. But who knows like at EM76, the Dutch might not even made the final with Krrayffy.

No doubt van Beveren was a great goalie (for myself, he was the best goalie I've ever seen), but there wasn't a huge problem with Jongblood at the World Cups.

Sempre
29 Apr 2005, 06:03 PM
There is actually a long history of talented Dutch players
spurning the national team. Simon Kuper writes about it in
his book Football Against the Enemy.

There he says it is a trait of Holland, an opnionated Calvinist
country, to have much in-fighting and arguing on the NT.
In the words of Cruyff himself: "The Dutch are pig-headed."

So what has cost Holland so much glory, I think, is the
extreme individuality of the players, who seem to have
little interest in uniting for the sake of the country.

Real Ray
29 Apr 2005, 06:34 PM
I'll have to watch Muller's goal again to see if the keeper could have done better. You can't blame him for not stopping the penalty.

I do think some of the blame does fall on Cryuff for 1974-but because of what transpired in the match.

After the penalty which he set up, Vogts took him out of the match physically and mentally. Those who have the match tape, watch the end of the first half where as the go off the pitch, he chases down the referee, going on and on.

Bertje
30 Apr 2005, 05:40 AM
But who needs cups when you allready know you are the best?

Dead Fingers
30 Apr 2005, 05:47 PM
But who needs cups when you allready know you are the best?

You keep telling yourself that. :p

arthur d
30 Apr 2005, 08:46 PM
But who needs cups when you allready know you are the best?

Exactly. That's what we Germans think. We won so many things, so we don't have to prove anything anymore. We can just take it easy for a while, not stressing about winning tournaments, just picking them up when they come along. :)

Dead Fingers
30 Apr 2005, 09:53 PM
Exactly. That's what we Germans think. We won so many things, so we don't have to prove anything anymore. We can just take it easy for a while, not stressing about winning tournaments, just picking them up when they come along. :)

All we got is a lousy Gold Cup. I don't think we can brag on that one :rolleyes: But you know, jrod is starting to persuade me that US dominance is in the works :D