Celtic/Rangers rivalry vs. Hibs/Hearts rivalry

Discussion in 'Scotland' started by Roscoe P Coldchain, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Roscoe P Coldchain

    Sep 14, 2004
    Westside St. Louis
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Hey all semi newbie from America who is a Celtic admirer/fan but I have a quick question about another rivalry (at least I would think it is and forgive me very little is known about anyone else other than Celtic and Rangers). I am almost sure that Hiberinan (sp?) and Hearts are both out of Edinburgh (wasn't Ewan McGregor a Hibs fan in Trainspotting?) and from what I seen Hibs looks to be an historically-Catholic backed team and I am assuming that Hearts is a historically-Protestant team. It sounds and looks alot like the Celtic/Rangers rivalry but it is a larger city and I think Hibs has been around longer than Celtic also. How come this, I am assuming, rivalry doesn't get a much publiticy as Celtic/Rangers. Please forgive me of any butchering of names and if I may have misstated things. Any information would help. Thank ya now...Roscoe
     
  2. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh

    Glasgow is actually a bigger city than Edinburgh. I don't have the figures to hand but I think Glasgow has about 750,000 and Edinburgh has around 500,000. You also have to consider that Glasgow has a huge urban connurbation around it with very large towns like East Kilbride, Paisly, Airdrie, Coatbridge etc, whereas Edinburgh has no real connurbation.

    Hibernian and Heart of Midlothian, or Hibs and Hearts are both from Edinburgh. I think Ewna McGregor's character was a Hibs fan, they have a reputation for being junkies:rolleyes:.

    Hibs were founded by Irish immigrants, I beleive. Hibernian is actually the latin(?) name for Ireland, I think. They were founded by Irish who happend to mostly be Catholic as opposed to Celtic who were originally founded as a Catholic club. So Hibs do have Catholic roots but it's not on the same level as Celtic at all. Hearts do have a Protestant element, from what I've seen and heard, they do have a bunch of absolute idiots who use Hearts to abuse what they see as the 'catholic' teams, Hibs and Celtic. I've heard a lot of people say that these idiots are only really prominant at games at Easter Road and Parkhead. It's for this reason that many OF fans call Hearts things like 'The Wee Huns' or 'The Cousins of William'.

    The Hibs/Hearts rivalry is older and I know that Hibs are an older club than Celtic as Celtic 'stole' most of the Hibs team of the time when they were formed.

    The Celtic/Rangers rivalry is undoutedly the higher profile rivalry as the two clubs involved are 'bigger'.

    The OF rivalry undoutedly gained much weight because in the early days (and it could be argued that they still do it) the clubs played up the catholic/protestant rivalry, which is much, much more prevalent in the West of Scotland, due to more Irish immigrants settling in the West. This all adds up and results in the OF having more fans (from all over Scotland) and much more media coverage. The two of them are too big for Scotland and Glasgow but the sectarian nature of the rivalry has undeniably helped them to do that. The Edinburgh rivalry is not seen as a particularly sectarian rivalry.

    I hope that helps a little.
     
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  3. manic jambo

    manic jambo New Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Edinburgh
    Hearts have a 'very small' element of anti catholic / BNP type followers. I would number them in the dozens, no more than that. The biggest problem is they only go to certain games (Hibs or Celtic) to abuse the opposing fans, this gives the media the ammunition they need to slag us off.
    The 'Cousins Of William' reference originates from fans in the West Of Scotland, in my opinion,eager to deflect the Rangers/Celtic hatred away from themselves . The Rangers fans desperate for an ally in Hearts / the Celtic fans looking to put us beside the Rangers fans as another enemy.

    The truth is that 99.9% of Hearts fans have a passionate dislike for Rangers and 99.95% for Celtic. Such is the bias of the Scottish media towards the Glasgow teams that any apparent trouble involving Hearts fans is exaggerated in order to make us seem worse than the cute little Gers/'Tic fans.


    The Hearts/Hibs rivalry is strong but not as hate-filled as in Glasgow. Our relationship with Hibs is more one of pity :) (although I may regret saying this after Sunday) :)

    Hearts do NOT have a primarily protestant history in the sense that we were not founded as one and we have never had a problem over who plays for us. This is a fallacy borne out of the fact that Hibs were started as an Irish immigrant club, therefore, incorrectly, "if Hibs are Catholic,Hearts must be protestant".
     
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  4. Roscoe P Coldchain

    Sep 14, 2004
    Westside St. Louis
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Thanks Gordon and Manic for the information. I was wondering if there was a Glasgow/Edin beef much like New York/L.A. beef....Watching baseball as we speak everyone and their ancestors are talking about the NY Yankees and Boston Red Sox...The Celtic/Rangers of baseball if you will... :rolleyes: But no one is talking about the St. Louis Cardinals and Houston Astros...Not as romantic or having much of the history but we are screaming East Coast (N.Y.) Bias. I guess it is the same anywhere on Earth. But thanks for the insight. Thank ya now...Roscoe
     
  5. Burkies Ginger Mop

    Burkies Ginger Mop New Member

    May 20, 2004
    London
    Shame about Celtic last night! HAHAHAHA!
     
  6. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    That's not why they do it at all. They all say that because they are trying ti give off the impression that the OF are bigger and more important than they realy are. By always trying to make out that Hearts /Hibs fans see themselves as the Rangers/Celtic they're trying to say that these people define who they support by the OF. It's ridiculous and a little pathetic. Of course, they say it as a wind up too.;)
     
  7. manic jambo

    manic jambo New Member

    Jul 16, 2001
    Edinburgh
    I agree with your reasoning. The truth is probably a bit of both but not being a bigot brother I cannot comment on what really goes on in their heads.
     
  8. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    I suppose there is a bit of rivalry between Glasgow and Edinburgh and West/East in general.

    There is a bit of a West coast bias in the Scottish media as most of the papers etc are based in Glasgow. Although people from the North will say that it's a Central Belt bias.
     
  9. Bobbybhoy

    Bobbybhoy New Member

    Apr 29, 2003
    your wrong.Hibernian is the latin term for Irishmen,Hibernia is latin for Ireland,Hibs were created as a "Catholics only" club out of the Cowgate section of Edinburgh(in ST.Pat's Chruch)Hibs later folded up shop,and later reformed without the "Catholics only"policy.Celtic was never a catholics only club(i.e Celtic=Irish as well as Scottish).
    http://www.stpatricksparish.co.uk/
     
  10. Gordon EF

    Gordon EF Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jan 15, 2004
    Edinburgh
    Fair enough, I did make it clear I wasn't certain on all the points.
     
  11. Bobbybhoy

    Bobbybhoy New Member

    Apr 29, 2003
    well done humping a Pub team....sure your going all the way in the uefa cup now ...
     
  12. Burkies Ginger Mop

    Burkies Ginger Mop New Member

    May 20, 2004
    London
    Where as it looks like Sellick will not even make the uefa cup now. Shame!
     
  13. Bobbybhoy

    Bobbybhoy New Member

    Apr 29, 2003
    ya there go's the league as well...broken crest in Daily Ranger MON get's the sack..Gers are world beaters now!!!!!
     
  14. Burkies Ginger Mop

    Burkies Ginger Mop New Member

    May 20, 2004
    London
    Now now. No need to go to pieces. Yet.
     
  15. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    Take it elsewhere lads. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Michael-A-UK

    Michael-A-UK New Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    Glasgow, Scotland
    You also have to remember that both Celtic and Rangers have supporters based all over the country, while followers of Hearts and Hibs are more restricted to Edinburgh. I think that in the past few years, the Hearts-Hibs games have been better to watch that Celtic-Rangers. The main reason for this is the growth in foreign players in Celtic and Rangers, while the Edinburgh sides rely more on homegrown talent. The foreigners don't play these derbys with the passion than the lads who ahve grown up supporting the team they now play for. Celtic-Rangers games certainly aren't the passionate affairs they used to be.
     
  17. SteveW

    SteveW New Member

    Apr 11, 2004
    I think the wee-Huns thing also originated because for a while there was a steady trade of players backwards and forwards between Hearts and Rangers. There have been quite a few players who have played for both teams in the last 20 or so years.

    I think Dave McPherson alone counts for 465 transfers between the two teams ;)
     

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