Rules question: goalie picking up ball

[billreeves]

Hi everyone,

a question from my brother who is a ref in his kid's U-10 league:

Can a goalie come out of the penalty box to get a ball in play (not an intentional pass back), dribble the ball into the box, and pick it up?

My initial answer (based on watching many Earthquake games) is that this is OK, but if anyone can point me to a FIFA code or something, that would be great. I'm guessing that he was reffing a game and made a call in this situation and some parents got on his case.

Thanks!

[vabeacher]

The LOTG only talk about what a keeper can NOT do, it does not provide a listing of what he is allowed to do. It does state that while he is on the field he is treated as any other player, he only has the special priviledge of using his hands inside his own penalty area. So yes, he can collect a stray ball outside the penalty area with his feet, dribble into his own area and pick up the ball (as long as that ball was not played back toward him by a teammate).

I'm not surprised that this ruling would be questioned by U10 parents and possibly even coaches. Everytime I ref a U10 game, and a keeper comes out of the penalty area to play a ball with his feet, I hear screams from the sidelines "He's out of the area, he can't do that!" I even heard those same comments about a keeper that wandered outside of his area while his team was totally controlling play at the other end of the field. This keeper did not have a single touch of the ball for the entire half. Usually if there is a break in the action I try to educate the parents.

[Ref Flunkie]

The LOTG only talk about what a keeper can NOT do, it does not provide a listing of what he is allowed to do. It does state that while he is on the field he is treated as any other player, he only has the special priviledge of using his hands inside his own penalty area. So yes, he can collect a stray ball outside the penalty area with his feet, dribble into his own area and pick up the ball (as long as that ball was not played back toward him by a teammate).

I'm not surprised that this ruling would be questioned by U10 parents and possibly even coaches. Everytime I ref a U10 game, and a keeper comes out of the penalty area to play a ball with his feet, I hear screams from the sidelines "He's out of the area, he can't do that!" I even heard those same comments about a keeper that wandered outside of his area while his team was totally controlling play at the other end of the field. This keeper did not have a single touch of the ball for the entire half. Usually if there is a break in the action I try to educate the parents.


"Good answer good answer!!!"

[billreeves]

Thanks for the quick answer!

[NHRef]

Usually if there is a break in the action I try to educate the parents.

I try to do this as often as possible with the parents as well, I also do it as an AR during some older games, as long as the parents seem willing to listen I am willing to explain. I will probably get myself in trouble someday....

One game I did was a U10 8v8, first game these kids had seen offside, same for parents. I was the AR on the parent side and heard lots of comments and questions and discussion about what was going on. Before second half started I gave a VERY quick explanation of offside and it seemed to calm them down for the second half.

[kevbrunton]

I try to do this as often as possible with the parents as well, I also do it as an AR during some older games, as long as the parents seem willing to listen I am willing to explain. I will probably get myself in trouble someday....

One game I did was a U10 8v8, first game these kids had seen offside, same for parents. I was the AR on the parent side and heard lots of comments and questions and discussion about what was going on. Before second half started I gave a VERY quick explanation of offside and it seemed to calm them down for the second half.
Whenever I get an opportunity to do a U10/U11 game, it is usually so that I can observe/mentor a younger referee. In those cases, I nearly always take the parents side. During the course of the game, I frequently hear these kinds of questions and will explain calls and situations. 90% or more of the parents at this age are happy to have such explanations. The second reason I take the parents side is that I can make sure no unruly parent will get on the CR. Just having a senior ref anywhere on the game is generally enough to keep the coaches in line, so I take the parents side to keep them in line too.

[Ref Flunkie]

Just having a senior ref anywhere on the game is generally enough to keep the coaches in line, so I take the parents side to keep them in line too.


I totally agree with this when it comes to younger ages. Coaches seem to know better (most do) about messing with a senior center, but parents, no matter how old/polished the center is, still think they know more about the game.

[dadman]

My son's club team has just gone from playing U-16 to U-19. I figure by this level, the parents might have picked up something about the game, how it's played, and quite a few of the rules, but that's not always the case. When the CR blew the whistle for the half with a corner pending, one of the dads shouted out, "You can't do that! You can't stop before the kick!" I just told him that, aside from a PK, full time is full time. He didn't believe me and just snorted... Combined with a lot of other comments he and his cohorts made, I don't think they would have believed anything I said about how well the ref team was working, even if I'd been Colina. :rolleyes:

So thank you for your efforts in helping educate all us 'rents. :)

[Ref Flunkie]

My son's club team has just gone from playing U-16 to U-19. I figure by this level, the parents might have picked up something about the game, how it's played, and quite a few of the rules, but that's not always the case. When the CR blew the whistle for the half with a corner pending, one of the dads shouted out, "You can't do that! You can't stop before the kick!" I just told him that, aside from a PK, full time is full time. He didn't believe me and just snorted... Combined with a lot of other comments he and his cohorts made, I don't think they would have believed anything I said about how well the ref team was working, even if I'd been Colina. :rolleyes:

So thank you for your efforts in helping educate all us 'rents. :)

Apparently you haven't seen this 4 page thread debating when you should call the end of a half/game :).

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143451

[NHRef]

Combined with a lot of other comments he and his cohorts made, I don't think they would have believed anything I said about how well the ref team was working, even if I'd been Colina. :rolleyes:


That's because they have probably been WATCHING soccer for several years and that makes them much more knowledgable than us yellow shirted dummies who only took a class in it ;)

[saabrian]

That's because they have probably been WATCHING soccer for several years and that makes them much more knowledgable than us yellow shirted dummies who only took a class in it ;)

On the other hand, I had a ref allow a goal for the other team even though the goal scorer was in an offside position when the ball was played to his head. "You can't be offside on a free kick," I was told. By a yellow-shirted dummy. :-)

I argued with him until I gently persuaded him to check the rule book, which he surprisingly did. After which he disallowed the goal.

I think he was only a first-year ref and it was only modified (U-14) but jeez! Unfortunately, there've been a couple of games over the years where I've known the rules better than the ref.

[IASocFan]

I think the referee training in most areas has greatly improved. Twenty plus years ago, we drafted anyone who could blow a whistle. I remember two games when I was coaching where the CR tried to award a PK for a foul at midfield. On both occasions, I ran out on the field and questioned the CR. On the first one, he was relieved that he didn't have to award my team a PK, and even called a few more fouls after he learned that the proper restart was a DFK. On the other occasion, I even involved the other coach, who was non-committal. After being asked to leave the field, I quietly returned to my sideline, and behaved myself for the rest of the game. We ended up losing the game on the PK, 1-0. I told the kids to remember, that the ref controls the game, we didn't put the ball in the net, and it's only a game :o

[njref]

I think the referee training in most areas has greatly improved. Twenty plus years ago, we drafted anyone who could blow a whistle. I remember two games when I was coaching where the CR tried to award a PK for a foul at midfield. On both occasions, I ran out on the field and questioned the CR. On the first one, he was relieved that he didn't have to award my team a PK, and even called a few more fouls after he learned that the proper restart was a DFK. On the other occasion, I even involved the other coach, who was non-committal. After being asked to leave the field, I quietly returned to my sideline, and behaved myself for the rest of the game. We ended up losing the game on the PK, 1-0. I told the kids to remember, that the ref controls the game, we didn't put the ball in the net, and it's only a game :o

No offense, but I don't think it is a good idea for coaches to run onto the field to dispute a ref call, even if it is ridiculous. In our house league (u-10)last year, I saw a coach run onto the field to dispute a foul, followed by the other team's coach, the result was the 14 year old ref was practically in tears. I suggested to both coaches and the ref at halftime that if either coach even stepped on the sideline in the second half she should toss them immediately. (I was a referee mentor for the league).

IMHO, a coach may never venture onto the field during the game to question a call. Period. Am I too uptight about this?

[Ref Flunkie]

IMHO, a coach may never venture onto the field during the game to question a call. Period. Am I too uptight about this?


Nope, I would eject a coach if he/she did that.

[IASocFan]

No offense, but I don't think it is a good idea for coaches to run onto the field to dispute a ref call, even if it is ridiculous. In our house league (u-10)last year, I saw a coach run onto the field to dispute a foul, followed by the other team's coach, the result was the 14 year old ref was practically in tears. I suggested to both coaches and the ref at halftime that if either coach even stepped on the sideline in the second half she should toss them immediately. (I was a referee mentor for the league).

IMHO, a coach may never venture onto the field during the game to question a call. Period. Am I too uptight about this?

This was more 24 years ago, and my son was the player that the phantom ;)foul was called on. I figured that if the CR didn't know what a PK was for, he wouldn't know enough to throw me out. He did try to eject me, but I just went back to my sideline. You would probably see me on the field for a similar miscarriage of justice, however most of my fellow refs know what a PK is for. ;)

[Grizzlierbear]

[QUOTE=vabeacher] So yes, he can collect a stray ball outside the penalty area with his feet, dribble into his own area and pick up the ball (as long as that ball was not played back toward him by a teammate). QUOTE]

Just a minor point, the ball can in fact be played back just not deliberately kicked to the keeper by the teammate.

[QUOTE=njref]IMHO, a coach may never venture onto the field during the game to question a call. Period. Am I too uptight about this? QUOTE]

No not really. While it is exceedingly difficult to calm remain on the touchlines, especially if a referee is having less than a stellar day and you feel your players are injured or in danger. I tend to agree they must remain in that technical area.

It sets a very dangerous precedent even IF the actions are thought to be noble or perceived as necessary for a coach to challenge a referee ESPECIALLY a younger or inexperienced one. Us old farts would likely be sending a coach to the parking lot for such actions so too should the new puffers as we are all in the same boat when those watching suspect us of stinking.

It is important to note communication of a serious problem does not always have to lead to angry confrontation, IF a referee is receptive to the dynamics of SPECIAL circumstances and the COACH is not belittling or so upset as to render any reasonable point into an arms across the chest belligerent stare down.

It is an interesting thought as to HOW or what approach could a referee be willing to tolerate for pointing out a major gaff or serious issue? Often we make reference to reasonable dissent as a barometer of a match. It is more likely though the need to protect the referee from abuse disallows on the field actions by usually upset coaches. Still if the captain is used wisely and questions framed appropriately SOME guff can be avoided. However, sometimes you cut loose on an ugly situation and accept the consequences.

[njref]

IMHO, a coach may never venture onto the field during the game to question a call. Period. Am I too uptight about this? QUOTE]

No not really. While it is exceedingly difficult to calm remain on the touchlines, especially if a referee is having less than a stellar day and you feel your players are injured or in danger. I tend to agree they must remain in that technical area.

It sets a very dangerous precedent even IF the actions are thought to be noble or perceived as necessary for a coach to challenge a referee ESPECIALLY a younger or inexperienced one. Us old farts would likely be sending a coach to the parking lot for such actions so too should the new puffers as we are all in the same boat when those watching suspect us of stinking.

It is important to note communication of a serious problem does not always have to lead to angry confrontation, IF a referee is receptive to the dynamics of SPECIAL circumstances and the COACH is not belittling or so upset as to render any reasonable point into an arms across the chest belligerent stare down.

It is an interesting thought as to HOW or what approach could a referee be willing to tolerate for pointing out a major gaff or serious issue? Often we make reference to reasonable dissent as a barometer of a match. It is more likely though the need to protect the referee from abuse disallows on the field actions by usually upset coaches. Still if the captain is used wisely and questions framed appropriately SOME guff can be avoided. However, sometimes you cut loose on an ugly situation and accept the consequences.

I agree.

I try to avoid ripping the ref even if they blunder, but sometimes it is hard. A phrase I have picked up from UK coaches is "Unlucky," which apparently is UK shorthand for the ref is a @#$%^&* idiot, although the phrase also is used on occasion when the player actually is unlucky.