Stupid

[johnfitz55]

Why does everyone leave out Houston for Expansion cities. The city has over 5 million in the metro area and a large mexican population. Plus Texas is one of the most popular states for youth soccer. It is the most logical choice. Think about it.

[FlashMan]

there have been numerous threads talking about houston for expansion and extolling its many virtues. some may have died in the BS craash of 2002, others may still be around. but houston's definitely in everyone's radar.

[NACIONAL]

the city has spended a lot in the new NFL team... i think that more expenses are out of they way by now... i think..

[Rocket]

Originally posted by johnfitz55
Why does everyone leave out Houston for Expansion cities. The city has over 5 million in the metro area and a large mexican population. Plus Texas is one of the most popular states for youth soccer. It is the most logical choice. Think about it.
Houston is periodically mentioned by MLS officials and team executives as a possible expansion location.

Here're a couple of links that show that MLS is on MLS' "short list" of serious expansion candidates:

Garber's 2001 State of the League address:

http://www.mlsnet.com/content/01/mls0727sotl.html

Interview with Chicago Fire executive Peter Wilt:

http://www.soccerloop.com/interview.php#4

[anderson]

Originally posted by NACIONAL
the city has spended a lot in the new NFL team... i think that more expenses are out of they way by now... i think..Just in case you're interested - and I'm sure you must be... ;)

The governmental entity in the Houston area that handles public financing of pro sports (and perhaps other) venues is the Harris County-Houston Sports Authority- as the name implies, a joint authority of the City of Houston and Harris County.

Financing for new projects requires voter approval, but no new venue would need to be built in Houston for a soccer team. The Houston thread in this forum has some discussion about both Reliant Stadium (a Sports Authority project; the new NFL stadium) and Robertson Stadium (not a Sports Authority project; a facility on the campus of a local state university) and their relative suitabilities for an MLS team.

Here's the site for the Sports Authority:
www.hchsa.org

Btw, the Sports Authority site has a couple of soccer bits. The Links page includes a link to the South Texas Youth Soccer Association, even though it has nothing in particular to do with the Sports Authority.

And the "Latest News" section on the front page has an announcement for an upcoming WUSA exhibition in Houston at the Rice Univeristy Track and Soccer Stadium, even though that facility is not a Sports Authority project and the game has nothing to do with the Authority.

[NACIONAL]

Originally posted by anderson
Just in case you're interested - and I'm sure you must be... ;)

...

Btw, the Sports Authority site has a couple of soccer bits. The Links page includes a link to the South Texas Youth Soccer Association, even though it has nothing in particular to do with the Sports Authority.

And the "Latest News" section on the front page has an announcement for an upcoming WUSA exhibition in Houston at the Rice Univeristy Track and Soccer Stadium, even though that facility is not a Sports Authority project and the game has nothing to do with the Authority.

Well you thinked right... i was interested... and even more when you are putting those soccer references... i will research some...

[NACIONAL]

Originally posted by Mike Segroves


Wow. That's certainly translated into 30K attendance, week in and week out in DC, New York, KC, Denver and Dallas, hasn't it?


It has, hasn't it?

i have to agree with you.... every fan of their city says that they are the soccer-hotbed of USA... but when a game is there no one shows up there...

[jasontoon]

First of all, Texas has a team, and it's not one of the stronger franchises. Second, pretty much every discussion of expansion I've ever seen mentions Houston.

[CeltTexan]

What needs to be done for Houston to be succesful is for someone that has the knowledge of running a club, knows how to give the fans what they want, dosn't sell out to the latino market (they what un-purchased loyalty) and can bring all cultures that live here in H-Town into the fold.
IMHO Reliant is a perfect choice, A/C all summer in the Texas heat gives fans of the beautiful game a chance to enjoy it indoors, plus the Texnas web site already mentions that the stadium diminsions are all set to MLS specs!

[anderson]

Yes, Houston gets mentioned everywhere. And it's likely that MLS keeps up with news items like the recent poll that found that soccer was the fifth most popular spectator sport in Houston (see Houston thread in this forum or the thread in the B&M - Links and Articles forum).

And everyone's probably well aware of the significance of the Hispanic audience to MLS. See here just for grins if you like:
http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/stories/2000/12/04/newscolumn8.html.

The question isn't whether Hispanics would make an MLS market into a weekly 30k+ market. So far nothing has made any MLS market into a weekly 30k+ market. Hispanics aren't the only piece of the puzzle, obviously. But they can be - and have been - a critical piece in certain markets.

As far as the "soccer hotbed" rhetoric goes, well, it's about as meaningful as most rhetoric and bombastic posturing. We're better off going with marketing data that MLS has actually stumbled across during its existence. One of those nuggets is that Hispanics are a good audience for MLS.

Houston probably gets brought up often enough at Phil's ranch when the ol' boys are chatting about expansion.

[houstonmls]

Houston has the set-up, but like every other city in the United States, needs an investor.

Nobody can say how many of the 5million will go to a match. D3 games can't give you a measurement, neither can the Pre-Libertadores Cup matches (even though we love to refer to them).

About the only quality argument one can present about Houston's interest in MLS is that it is receives some of the highest Neilsen ratings for MLS in the country.

[anderson]

Originally posted by houstonmls
...

About the only quality argument one can present about Houston's interest in MLS is that it is receives some of the highest Neilsen ratings for MLS in the country.Great, spoil a potentially absurd thread with a perfectly sensible observation. Is that what they're teaching you up at SMU?

You're right, of course, but also it's reasonable to keep in mind that the demographics of Houston and of MLS' fan base mesh well. When about 25% of the MLS fan base is Hispanic and up to 50% of MLS attendance in certain markets is Hispanic, Houston offers MLS an attractive market with 1.6 million Hispanics and growth in the area's Hispanic percentage from 21% in 1990 to 33% in 2000. Depending on how you count people and measure places, Houston is usually ranked as the third to fifth largest Hispanic (or Latino) city (or metro area) in the US.

None of us know how much of that population would show up for MLS games, but Hispanics provide a key fan segment in several MLS markets. It's educated and reasonable guessing based on what we know about who supports MLS and where, not baseless speculation, to conclude that Houston's huge and rapidly growing Hispanic population would probably provide a nice starting point for an MLS fan base.

[houstonmls]

Originally posted by anderson
Great, spoil a potentially absurd thread with a perfectly sensible observation. Is that what they're teaching you up at SMU?

You're right, of course, but also it's reasonable to keep in mind that the demographics of Houston and of MLS' fan base mesh well. When about 25% of the MLS fan base is Hispanic and up to 50% of MLS attendance in certain markets is Hispanic, Houston offers MLS an attractive market with 1.6 million Hispanics and growth in the area's Hispanic percentage from 21% in 1990 to 33% in 2000. Depending on how you count people and measure places, Houston is usually ranked as the third to fifth largest Hispanic (or Latino) city (or metro area) in the US.

None of us know how much of that population would show up for MLS games, but Hispanics provide a key fan segment in several MLS markets. It's educated and reasonable guessing based on what we know about who supports MLS and where, not baseless speculation, to conclude that Houston's huge and rapidly growing Hispanic population would probably provide a nice starting point for an MLS fan base.

Sure it's reasonable to make those assumptions. Unless you throw in the Miami trump card. I would pull up some stats, but I'm lazy and don't really feel like it...so correct me if I'm wrong. Miami's attendance was anything but impressive and look at their Latino population.

Now of course there were other factors in the Miami deal. 1. they weren't in Miami. 2. The management couldn't market porno to truckers if their life depended on it.

But who wants to listen to my logic...I never knew anything about expansion...i'll just go back to freeforall.

[NACIONAL]

Originally posted by houstonmls

.... 2. The management couldn't market porno to truckers if their life depended on it......


hehehehehe.... that was really funny!!!

and sad.... but true...

[anderson]

Originally posted by houstonmls
Now of course there were other factors in the Miami deal. 1. they weren't in Miami. 2. The management couldn't market porno to truckers if their life depended on it.Well, I think you state the main issue in Miami in your point 2 above. The Fusion's first few home attendances during March and April of 98 were: 20,450; 14,653; 11,132; and 11,247. They had to turn people away for the inaugural game and, IIRC, then-GM Leo Stillitano said something needlessly impolitic to the effect that fans couldn't just expect to show up and get tickets. They finished the season with only a 10,284 average and some four-figure attendances, but then pulled in 13,128 for their only home playoff game. There's probably more potential in that market than management was ever able to realize.

FWIW, the national origins of the Hispanic/Latino population in Miami are also a bit different than in Houston (or Dallas, LA, or Chicago). My understanding is that about half the 1.7 million Hispanic population in that area traces its origins to a country that doesn't have strong soccer traditions (e.g., Cuba, PR, DR). That gives you a very different potential Hispanic fan base than you would find in Texas, California, or Chicago.

[houstonmls]

Originally posted by anderson
Well, I think you state the main issue in Miami in your point 2 above. The Fusion's first few home attendances during March and April of 98 were: 20,450; 14,653; 11,132; and 11,247. They had to turn people away for the inaugural game and, IIRC, then-GM Leo Stillitano said something needlessly impolitic to the effect that fans couldn't just expect to show up and get tickets. They finished the season with only a 10,284 average and some four-figure attendances, but then pulled in 13,128 for their only home playoff game. There's probably more potential in that market than management was ever able to realize.

FWIW, the national origins of the Hispanic/Latino population in Miami are also a bit different than in Houston (or Dallas, LA, or Chicago). My understanding is that about half the 1.7 million Hispanic population in that area traces its origins to a country that doesn't have strong soccer traditions (e.g., Cuba, PR, DR). That gives you a very different potential Hispanic fan base than you would find in Texas, California, or Chicago.

You are right. Youth soccer participation, Hispanic population, etc do play a bit of a role in predicting how well a city will fare with a team.

I'm just trying to look at what factors show without a doubt interest in MLS.

There are just too many posters who assume that NASL attendance, youth participation, big tournaments, USL matches, College attendance, has anything to do with MLS. It doesn't really.

[anderson]

Originally posted by houstonmls
There are just too many posters who assume that NASL attendance, youth participation, big tournaments, USL matches, College attendance, has anything to do with MLS. It doesn't really.To the extent that we’re saying there’s no talisman that will ensure MLS success in any given market, then I agree completely.

But I think it’s also true that we’re not entirely in the dark about the MLS fan base. MLS has gained a fair amount of understanding about attendance - who attends where and in what proportions. When analyzing how a specific market may support an MLS team, it only makes sense to apply that learning. Obviously, there are no guarantees about the fan base in a new market. But the fact that there are no guarantees doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t make reasonable assessments based on your experience.

I agree that ratings for MLS games in a particular market provide a direct and valuable measure of interest in MLS in that market. I'm just adding that MLS also has some understanding of Hispanic attendance that's far more meaningful and analytically valuable than the mere rhetoric about the other things that people toss out from time to time.

So, I think this just takes us to a suggestion that MLS should consider all meaningful factors that may apply in a given market - not solely the without a doubt factors - when analyzing potential markets.

[rymannryan]

I heard in a previous thread that heat would be a problem with having a team in Houston.

[houstonmls]

Originally posted by rymannryan
I heard in a previous thread that heat would be a problem with having a team in Houston.

whatever.

Just like the high elevation is a problem in Azteca and cold winters are a problem at St. Johns, its a home field advantage.

Plus. MLS games are at night.

Whoever said that presents a pretty worthless argument.

[BenReilly]

Originally posted by houstonmls


Sure it's reasonable to make those assumptions. Unless you throw in the Miami trump card. I would pull up some stats, but I'm lazy and don't really feel like it...so correct me if I'm wrong. Miami's attendance was anything but impressive and look at their Latino population.

Now of course there were other factors in the Miami deal. 1. they weren't in Miami. 2. The management couldn't market porno to truckers if their life depended on it.

But who wants to listen to my logic...I never knew anything about expansion...i'll just go back to freeforall.

Miami is a totally different situation. You must subtract all the Cubans from the list of "latinos"