Montreal?

[Gioca]

I was talking about Real Salt Lake.

Ah OK, but only the name is Spanish. I don't see the big deal, the name sounds better than most MLS teams. I'm enjoying the creativity of the new names as opposed to the cheesy names the league started off with.

[crumpitgunner]

I personally hae no problem with a canadian city having an MLS team, canucks are great footy fans.

Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto would all be worthy cities to host teams. The NHL, NBA, and MLB have teams in canada (the expo's are a REALLY bad example). Any city that can support an A-League team is worthy at least of consideration for an MLS expansion bid. The Blue Jays are followed across canada and I know people who live in windsor who wouldn't piss on a redwings ticket; candian fans are crazy

I am all for whatever all for whatever it takes to increase the quality of MLS soccer on the field and for the fans be it through having a hispanic themed team who people hate then so be it. Passion is what makes sports great. Yankees Red Sox, Arsenal Man United, Redwings Avs

[murtaugh29]

I would think maybe a long term goal for MLS would be having a north american superleague. I can see a scenario where Mexican, American, and Canadian teams compete in the same league not too far down the road.

[THOMA GOL]

Help me Holy Ghost, but the last time Canada went to the World Cup, didn't they have their OWN LEAGUE??? Point being, the BIG picture i.e. how MLS has helped the US National team. Canada take note, start a CANADA Premier League or something, then you too can play with da big dawgs.

[mls2atl]

i still think that canada should have their own league. if they are soccer crazy up there they should have their own league. i stated before they have plently of cities that could support a team. if we do decide to add canadian teams i hope it isnt until the mls has been in the usa for at least 20 years.

[Arisrules]

The arguments for Canada not being able to join MLS are moot. Wales is the perfect example. The NASL is another example. Finally, the fact that there are so many canadian teams that play in the A-League.

Now, as to whether we want to further dilute the so called "americaness" of the league. I'll say this, Montreal is a superb sports town. The Expos, before their owners basically tried to rip them out of their home, were one of the best supported franchises in MLB, despite being in that barn of a stadium. The Canadiens are also well supported.

I don't know. Obviously if an owner with deep pockets comes along, and wants to build a SSS, they are in.

[SportBoy333]

i still think that canada should have their own league. if they are soccer crazy up there they should have their own league.



Canada is most certainly not "soccer crazy".

[Jimjamesak]

Ok couple of pints to make:

Wales=Country in FIFA's mind but they want to keep Rangers and Celtic out oif England right? If they let a Canadian team in MLS they weaken their own argument further.

NASL was not recognized by FIFA, it was an outlaw league.

USL is not technically a US only league, they use Canadian officials and some of the first teams were Canadian.

That said Canada should start their own league instead of piggybacking off of MLS.

[UlyssesGWashington]

I remember that the Montreal Manic of the NASL got a few really big crowds, and they had some hard-core fans. A lot of the claims here that Canada shouldn't have a team in MLS appear to be based on nothing other than superstition. If they can achieve the ownership and stadium criteria that all the other cities are subject to, then bring 'em in.

[swedcrip34]

The arguments for Canada not being able to join MLS are moot. Wales is the perfect example. The NASL is another example. Finally, the fact that there are so many canadian teams that play in the A-League.

Now, as to whether we want to further dilute the so called "americaness" of the league. I'll say this, Montreal is a superb sports town. The Expos, before their owners basically tried to rip them out of their home, were one of the best supported franchises in MLB, despite being in that barn of a stadium. The Canadiens are also well supported.

I don't know. Obviously if an owner with deep pockets comes along, and wants to build a SSS, they are in.

Your argument would make more sense if Wales had it's own parliament for something like 600 years until sometime after 1999. That'd be more of an argument for allowing a Puerto Rican team into MLS, which I think FIFA would have no problem with. I don't know if FIFA would or wouldn't allow it, but I don't really see how this benefits MLS. I just don't think they need it and with so many US markets vacant, it'll be hard to convince me otherwise. Even with a Toronto SSS I just didn't see it happening.

I think a 4 team Canadian league could work if some investors were found (any billionaires in Canada?).

Think about currency exchange, taxes, border crossings - it's just probably a complication not worth it for MLS right now.

[Clint Eastwood]

All Canada needs to do is look at the US game versus Panama.

9 of the 11 starters played in MLS.

McBride
Wolff
Donovan
Zavagnin
Lewis
Beasley
Pope
Hejduk
Bocanegra

Keller had moved to Europe prior to MLS, and Berhalter never has. Virtually all of these players owe their careers to the fact that a US league was built up so they could develop their talent. The US decided it wanted to be good at soccer, and put it's money where it's mouth is. Canada needs to do the same if they expect to make any progress.

A-league success doesn't mean much to me, outside of Rochester's prolonged growth and development. Look at the history of the A-league. See the incredible turnover as teams come and go. Cincinnati averaged less than 400 fans a game. Syracuse finished 3rd in attendance. I don't hear anybody clamoring for them in MLS.

[swedcrip34]

All Canada needs to do is look at the US game versus Panama.

9 of the 11 starters played in MLS.

McBride
Wolff
Donovan
Zavagnin
Lewis
Beasley
Pope
Hejduk
Bocanegra

Keller had moved to Europe prior to MLS, and Berhalter never has. Virtually all of these players owe their careers to the fact that a US league was built up so they could develop their talent. The US decided it wanted to be good at soccer, and put it's money where it's mouth is. Canada needs to do the same if they expect to make any progress.

A-league success doesn't mean much to me, outside of Rochester's prolonged growth and development. Look at the history of the A-league. See the incredible turnover as teams come and go. Cincinnati averaged less than 400 fans a game. Syracuse finished 3rd in attendance. I don't hear anybody clamoring for them in MLS.

I think all would still have pro careers without MLS but maybe not as successful and might be lesser players today. Zavagnin might have left soccer but MLS waived him so MLS can't claim complete credit. McBride was already in Europe before MLS. Beasley and Donovan would easily be in Europe somewhere. Pope too. Hejduk I'm 80% certain cause he might have went into surfing or something else but he did easily land a European job after WC98. Bocanegra - don't know if he would have stuck with soccer and don't know how good he was his rookie season. Lewis might be your best argument cause I don't remember much from him until a few seasons into MLS. The USMNT had a near full squad of European-based players before MLS but no depth past that. MLS has given the USMNT great depth. I just don't think we'll ever know how these players would have developed in Europe but I do think most would be in Europe if for no MLS (Canada has a near full squad from Europe). O'Brien and Spector seem to be developing fine in Europe. MLS may get credit for developing players like Donovan sooner but I don't know when he would have cracked a starting European lineup and his talent would probably have shown through anyway.

Canada's biggest problem to me is the lack of games together. US players in MLS know each other and the USMNT plays more friendlies than most all teams out there.

I still agree that you're right that Canada needs its own league (or 2-3 MLS teams) to really progress but where is Canada going to get the money.

I wouldn't have said so much, but am not sure how strongly you mean "owe".

[THOMA GOL]

I still agree that you're right that Canada needs its own league (or 2-3 MLS teams) to really progress but where is Canada going to get the money.



Okay I need some understanding from a hard-core but wise Canadian supporter. What does the supporter of Canadian soccer expect?? Do they want a league?? Do they want to progress to and in a World Cup??? Or do they just want a team in MLS or other just for bragging rights (if they beat American sides, like the Impact has done)??? Are there realistic expectations especially in terms of collective growth??

[ElJefe]

NASL was not recognized by FIFA, it was an outlaw league.
Incorrect. It was approved by the USSF, the CSA, and FIFA. The only phase in the NASL's history where anyone was renegade was in 1967, when two leagues existed, the FIFA-recognized United Soccer Association (USA) and the renegade National Professional Soccer League (NPSL). The two leagues merged for the 1968 season, became the NASL, and enjoyed FIFA recognition for the rest of its history.

FIFA has no problems with cross-border leagues, provided that both FAs approve of the arrangement. The USSF's and CSA's approval is the reason why the NASL was allowed to have Canadian teams, why the APSL had was allowed to have Canadian teams, why the USL is allowed to have Canadian teams, and why MLS would likely be allowed to have Canadian teams. The reason why Rangers and Celtic aren't allowed to join the English league is because the Scottish FA opposes it. After all, without Rangers and Celtic, the Scottish league pretty much collapses.

[DoyleG]

Incorrect. It was approved by the USSF, the CSA, and FIFA. The only phase in the NASL's history where anyone was renegade was in 1967, when two leagues existed, the FIFA-recognized United Soccer Association (USA) and the renegade National Professional Soccer League (NPSL). The two leagues merged for the 1968 season, became the NASL, and enjoyed FIFA recognition for the rest of its history.

FIFA has no problems with cross-border leagues, provided that both FAs approve of the arrangement. The USSF's and CSA's approval is the reason why the NASL was allowed to have Canadian teams, why the APSL had was allowed to have Canadian teams, why the USL is allowed to have Canadian teams, and why MLS would likely be allowed to have Canadian teams. The reason why Rangers and Celtic aren't allowed to join the English league is because the Scottish FA opposes it. After all, without Rangers and Celtic, the Scottish league pretty much collapses.

The benefit is that the SPL would be more worth watching without the Glasgow rich boys.

The problem is that there isn't much of an ownership possibility in Montreal. Saputo has stated in the past that he wasn't interested in MLS. Similar talk showed that Kerrfoot in Vancouver isn't interested either. The reason: MLS loses too much money.

[ElJefe]

The benefit is that the SPL would be more worth watching without the Glasgow rich boys.
This is true, but the all the other teams in the Scottish league benefit greatly in the area of ticket sales and TV revenue from Rangers and Celtic being in the league. Without them, attendance is down across the league and the TV contract is not worth nearly as much.

And without that revenue, suddenly a lot of teams' financial prospects look significantly worse. Even if they do survive, they're not able to bring in the same quality of players that they once did.

[prk166]

I don't have any problems with the arguments for Montreal over Toronto. I do take issue with a Canadian team in the MLS in general. At the end of the day I'm not convinced that it makes business sense. The largest problem is currency fluctuations. What are today's rates? 80 cents US for a Canadian dollar? And it was only a few years ago that it was a lot less than that, 60-somethin' cents US for a Canadian dollar. That alone presents huge issues for a league that's fightin' for profitability. Obviously that problem can help from year to year. And big companies expand into foreign markets despite these issues. But just that issue seems a bit too much for me to stomach when the MLS is trying to grow and attain profitibility south of the 49th.

I'd like to see FIFA specifically give an OK for a Canadian team or two in the MLS. And if they did that, I'd like to see the MLS do that once they've expanded more in the US and become more established in their current markets. There's still a lot of growth potential for the MLS on this side of the border. No need to go stick their neck out until they've got a foothold south fo the 49th.

[Clint Eastwood]

I think all would still have pro careers without MLS but maybe not as successful and might be lesser players today. Zavagnin might have left soccer but MLS waived him so MLS can't claim complete credit. McBride was already in Europe before MLS. Beasley and Donovan would easily be in Europe somewhere. Pope too. Hejduk I'm 80% certain cause he might have went into surfing or something else but he did easily land a European job after WC98. Bocanegra - don't know if he would have stuck with soccer and don't know how good he was his rookie season. Lewis might be your best argument cause I don't remember much from him until a few seasons into MLS. The USMNT had a near full squad of European-based players before MLS but no depth past that. MLS has given the USMNT great depth. I just don't think we'll ever know how these players would have developed in Europe but I do think most would be in Europe if for no MLS (Canada has a near full squad from Europe). O'Brien and Spector seem to be developing fine in Europe. MLS may get credit for developing players like Donovan sooner but I don't know when he would have cracked a starting European lineup and his talent would probably have shown through anyway.

Canada's biggest problem to me is the lack of games together. US players in MLS know each other and the USMNT plays more friendlies than most all teams out there.

I still agree that you're right that Canada needs its own league (or 2-3 MLS teams) to really progress but where is Canada going to get the money.

I wouldn't have said so much, but am not sure how strongly you mean "owe".


I somewhat agree with your assessment. I'm just not sure players like Beasley would be around without MLS. He's been completely nurtured in the US youth system and with the Fire. Was he on your radar screen as a susperstar when he was drafted? He certainly wasn't on mine. What about Wolff?

I'd say Canada needs it's own league, but look at the problems their A-league teams other than Montreal and Toronto are having. Edmonton looks like it's gone under and Calgary will soon follow. I'm not fully up to date on these situations, so if a Canadian fan could update us it would help.

We have plenty of potential markets in the US to feel out first before we go to Canada (Rochester, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Oklahoma City, Charleston, etc. etc. etc). Every US Sport has tried to tap the Canadian market. Baseball looks like it's in bad shape there. Montreal moved and the Blue Jay's attendance has gone thru a free fall. Basketball? Vancouver moved to Memphis and the Raptors are having a tough time getting players. Why all of a sudden are we clamoring to bring them into MLS? This is an American league. I don't care if a Mexican owner puts a hispanic team in LA, but we're not letting him put it in Monterrey. If a Canadian owner wants to buy a franchise and put it in Minnesota, I wouldn't care if he stocks it with some Canadian players. Would you?

[swedcrip34]

I somewhat agree with your assessment. I'm just not sure players like Beasley would be around without MLS. He's been completely nurtured in the US youth system and with the Fire. Was he on your radar screen as a susperstar when he was drafted? He certainly wasn't on mine. What about Wolff?

I'd say Canada needs it's own league, but look at the problems their A-league teams other than Montreal and Toronto are having. Edmonton looks like it's gone under and Calgary will soon follow. I'm not fully up to date on these situations, so if a Canadian fan could update us it would help.

We have plenty of potential markets in the US to feel out first before we go to Canada (Rochester, Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Oklahoma City, Charleston, etc. etc. etc). Every US Sport has tried to tap the Canadian market. Baseball looks like it's in bad shape there. Montreal moved and the Blue Jay's attendance has gone thru a free fall. Basketball? Vancouver moved to Memphis and the Raptors are having a tough time getting players. Why all of a sudden are we clamoring to bring them into MLS? This is an American league. I don't care if a Mexican owner puts a hispanic team in LA, but we're not letting him put it in Monterrey. If a Canadian owner wants to buy a franchise and put it in Minnesota, I wouldn't care if he stocks it with some Canadian players. Would you?

Beasley was absolutely on my radar when he was a rookie. Thanks to Jamar Beasley he had a lot of hype. Wolff was scoring something like a goal per 10 minutes as a sub at the end of every game as a rookie. New he was special to. Beasley I'm sure would have had offers from Europe. Not sure about Wolff but I think he would've landed somewhere (exceptional quickness that's just starting to come back). How patient Europe would have been with Wolff's injuries I'm not sure.

Maybe a Canadian team in Detroit? Closer to Canada's population than Minnesota I'd guess. Rochester might not be too far from the border either. 2-3 cities in hockey are the only markets that any US sport probably NEED to be in. Raptors and Blue Jays do ok but aren't great franchises. The smaller NHL markets have been relocation targets despite good attendance. 10 years from now the Blue Jays may very well be a relocation target (threat to get new stadium). Sounds like the Toronto SSS may be on again but I'm wary it's more of a CFL SS and unless the right ownership comes along I'm skeptical about MLS in Canada.

[wandering soccerdog]

Canadian teams should NEVER be allowed in MLS no matter how many fans they have.

See: World Cup 1986.

CONCACAF had two slots. The U.S. didn't qualify, but Canada did, largely with talented players developed in the NASL (where the Canadians counted as "North Americans").

U.S. Soccer should keep a steel boot on Canada's throat and keep them in their place -- a place that doesn't allow them to develop players at a first division level.

The U.S. has enough trouble getting past Costa Rica, Jamaica, and Trinidad. Why on earth would we want to empower Canada by letting them play in our league, where their players would only get better and better?

Hey Canada, take your hockey, your mounties, and your SCTV rejects, and form your own first division soccer league, if you care.