Dolo, number one rb ever

[peterm]

Clearly in US history. He is the most technicaly skilled, has the most pace, scores goals and sets them up occasionally, reminds me quite a bit of Ferriera at Chelsea. Dolo's been starting for fours years now (?) - in one of the best leagues in the world, is at his peak athletic age. Is playing the best football of his life.

The Ugly American (Arena) constantly has a blind spot (What's with all the mid thirties starting these days when there are more great young players then ever to chose from?), the only time he's ever played the best eleven are when he's forced to by injury (Korea, if not for Agoos and Armas's injuries, they would have been in the starting 11 and the US would not have gotten out of the group stage).

I vote for regime change. I beg for it, I dream of it. A proper European manager who hasn't any ties to any particular players here, but knows tactics, training and how to pick the best eleven this country has.

[Sanguine]

I vote for regime change. I beg for it, I dream of it. A proper European manager who hasn't any ties to any particular players here, but knows tactics, training and how to pick the best eleven this country has.

The thing is, there is no "best 11" in this country that are clearly better than the others for every opponent. Our current situation is that we have a bunch of players who are good at one thing, but bad at another, and it's the manager's job to get the right ones on the pitch for each match.

Has Arena always had the best combination for every given match? I certainly don't think so, but at least he recognizes that we can't just throw our "best 11" out there for every single match.

You named all of Cherundolo's good qualities, and I (and most likely Arena) agree that he's good on the ball, has good pace and is a good crosser. But he's also small and slight and can be physically dominated by some opponents. You have to take the bad with the good. Sometimes for him, the good qualities outweigh the bad, and sometimes they don't.

[afgrijselijkheid]

until dolo has a WC like sanneh had in 2002, you can absolutely drop that ever

oh and stevie scores a goal about once every three years

[mschofield]

...
You named all of Cherundolo's good qualities, and I (and most likely Arena) agree that he's good on the ball, has good pace and is a good crosser. But he's also small and slight and can be physically dominated by some opponents. You have to take the bad with the good. Sometimes for him, the good qualities outweigh the bad, and sometimes they don't.
I'll agree that BA has legit reasons to go with those he choses, even if I disagree with them.
But I have no idea where this notion that SC is a delicate flower comes from, and cannot agree that is one of BA's reasons, especially for starting frankie ahead of him. SC stands up very well in the Bund, wore the captain's armband this weekend, and isn't pushed around more than anyone else. He looks a legitimate starter in the bund, and I'd guess could move to seven or eight other teams and hold his spot quite well.
In the Bund, he is playing every week against more physical and usually more talented, attackers than those he'll see in concacaf qualies.
Is there video out there of him getting his face kicked in by girl scouts that I don't know about? ;)

[odg78]

Is there video out there of him getting his face kicked in by girl scouts that I don't know about? ;)
--What do you think finally convinced me to pony up the cash for premium membership?

[Martin Fischer]

... But I have no idea where this notion that SC is a delicate flower comes from, and cannot agree that is one of BA's reasons, especially for starting frankie ahead of him. SC stands up very well in the Bund, wore the captain's armband this weekend, and isn't pushed around more than anyone else. He looks a legitimate starter in the bund, and I'd guess could move to seven or eight other teams and hold his spot quite well.
In the Bund, he is playing every week against more physical and usually more talented, attackers than those he'll see in concacaf qualies.
Is there video out there of him getting his face kicked in by girl scouts that I don't know about? ;)

Go back and watch his performances in the last round of WC qualifiers. I agree that you would think that physical play would be something he would adjust to [and maybe he finally has] playing in Germany, but that has been his weakness with the Nats in the past. Hejduk has not had that type of problem nearly as much.

Dolo might have this problem because he is not very big. :D

[mschofield]

I don't see him getting pushed around in the bund. amybe hannover fans who go in person to the games ( i see hannover on television) do. But he's earned quite a bit of respect in this league. as to SC in the 02 runup, I can't remember being disappointed in his play, but it didn't happen very often.
And as for heydude, he was ripped to shreds by the same people SC is now marking out of games.

[Scotty]

He's no Mike Burns.

[Martin Fischer]

I don't see him getting pushed around in the bund. amybe hannover fans who go in person to the games ( i see hannover on television) do. But he's earned quite a bit of respect in this league. as to SC in the 02 runup, I can't remember being disappointed in his play, but it didn't happen very often.

Once again, never commented on his play in the Bundesliga. In my opinion in the World Cup qualifiers in the last cycle, Cherundolo had trouble defensively. Not saying that Hejduk is a better player, but Hejduk did not have that particular problem.

And as for heydude, he was ripped to shreds by the same people SC is now marking out of games.

Really? The same people? When was that?

In 2002/2003, when Hejduk played in Switzerland?

In 2001/2002, when he never got into a game for Bayer?

In 2000/2001, when he played 3 games for Bayer?

In 1999/2000 when he played 6 games in the Bundesliga for Bayer?

I know it wasn't in 1998/1999 when Hejduk started the last 10 games for Leverkusen as the right wing forward as Leverkusen shot all the way to second in the Bundesliga.

Come on, get a grip. Hejduk is not a great player, but he didn't play enough for Bayer, at least in a defensive position, to make that argument. In the few games I have seen him play, he was not ripped to shreds.

[Mr Martin]

#1 US right back EVER! Now that's saying something when the list is so, um, er, so compelling... :rolleyes:

Fernando Clavijo
Paul Caliguiri
Mike Burns
Frankie Hejduk
Tony Sanneh

bluedaddy19 has the right spin on this -- until Steve Cherundolo has a series of matches like Sanneh did during WC02, you can't say he is the best we've ever had.

Don't get me wrong. I like SC and think he should play more than he currently does. But he is far from a standout player on the current US squad.

[stopper4]

Go back and watch his performances in the last round of WC qualifiers. I agree that you would think that physical play would be something he would adjust to [and maybe he finally has] playing in Germany, but that has been his weakness with the Nats in the past. Hejduk has not had that type of problem nearly as much.

Dolo might have this problem because he is not very big. :D

I just can't get the home leg against Hounduras out of my head. He had a terrible game.

And he does seem to get manhandled by the Onandi Lowes and Wanchopes of CONCACAF.

[mschofield]

Once again, never commented on his play in the Bundesliga. In my opinion in the World Cup qualifiers in the last cycle, Cherundolo had trouble defensively. Not saying that Hejduk is a better player, but Hejduk did not have that particular problem.



Really? The same people? When was that?

In 2002/2003, when Hejduk played in Switzerland?

In 2001/2002, when he never got into a game for Bayer?

In 2000/2001, when he played 3 games for Bayer?

In 1999/2000 when he played 6 games in the Bundesliga for Bayer?

I know it wasn't in 1998/1999 when Hejduk started the last 10 games for Leverkusen as the right wing forward as Leverkusen shot all the way to second in the Bundesliga.

Come on, get a grip. Hejduk is not a great player, but he didn't play enough for Bayer, at least in a defensive position, to make that argument. In the few games I have seen him play, he was not ripped to shreds.
I was referring to his switzerland disaster, and you are correct, not the same players. I was merging his failure there with an inability to play much in the bund, so probably apples and oranges. My mistake, sloppy. :o

[Martin Fischer]

I was referring to his switzerland disaster, and you are correct, not the same players. I was merging his failure there with an inability to play much in the bund, so probably apples and oranges. My mistake, sloppy. :o

Fine. My one question -- is Leverkusen the same as Hanover?

Anyway, I don't dispute the fact that Cherundolo has been able to suceed in the Bundesliga and Hejduk never did (no other side showed interest in him after Leverkusen) makes Dolo's resume stronger. But games are not won on resumes and, despite his impressive resume, Hejduk has been better at defending against physical players in actual games the Nats have played.

[freisland]

re: Frankie - turned down an offer from B1 nurnberg before he left BL. Didn't want to take the pay cut.

re: Dolo - no one, (or nearly - I haven't checked the stats) save mebbe Pablo, has been brought into key USMNT games faster than Dolo. Dolo was second only to Sanneh on Arena's list, and Arena preferred Sanneh as RM to Dolo's RB. Dolo started in Honduras after one or two caps.

re: Dolo's skill level. Dolo's reformation has been stunning. He is by turns the worst back ever and now the most skilled ever. Dolo is a very serviceable back. He is better all around than Frankie, but not as good a role player/man marker. He is not as good as an in form Sanneh.

Bruce did not call Dolo in to this camp because he was going to start Sanneh, as he should, and did not want to piss off Lienen any more than Mathis already had (he said this in an interview recently - not the Mathis part tho, in the interest of full disclosure. Voros take note.)

Bruce has many blind spots, but Stevie is not one of them.

Now back to your regularly scheduled "call up Spector now" thread.

[DamonEsquire]

Well after review of results/line-up. Mr. Cherundolo have edge over Mr. Hejduk. They look inform and there is one thing to mention. Mr. Cherundolo halfway play for scoreless win. Although Mr. Hejduk's presence is on the field, the opponent finds the net. The same can be said about Mr. Pope. Is there a pattern? Eight goals concede out of matches. The big ones Team Haiti (Mr. POPE) and Team Grenada (MR. Hejduk).
In question, Team Jamaica saw both as well as Team Panama. Mr. Cherundolo saw neither one. In fact, Mr. Cherundolo played in the matches (3) neither one were involved.

[csctn]

I vote for regime change. I beg for it, I dream of it. A proper European manager who hasn't any ties to any particular players here, but knows tactics, training and how to pick the best eleven this country has.

This can be read to mean that you actually think that European managers don't have problems picking players. Wasn't there a European national team coach who was killed because of his callups - JUST KIDDING.
This could also be read to mean that you think coaching a national team is just the same as coaching a club team. You have to know managing a group of players that get together occasionally to play "all-star" games is soooo much harder.

BTW I really like Cherundolo, and Bruce can be the coach until that one fatal mistake - we do not make a WC Finals.

[mschofield]

re: Frankie - turned down an offer from B1 nurnberg before he left BL. Didn't want to take the pay cut.

re: Dolo - no one, (or nearly - I haven't checked the stats) save mebbe Pablo, has been brought into key USMNT games faster than Dolo. Dolo was second only to Sanneh on Arena's list, and Arena preferred Sanneh as RM to Dolo's RB. Dolo started in Honduras after one or two caps.

re: Dolo's skill level. Dolo's reformation has been stunning. He is by turns the worst back ever and now the most skilled ever. Dolo is a very serviceable back. He is better all around than Frankie, but not as good a role player/man marker. He is not as good as an in form Sanneh.

Bruce did not call Dolo in to this camp because he was going to start Sanneh, as he should, and did not want to piss off Lienen any more than Mathis already had (he said this in an interview recently - not the Mathis part tho, in the interest of full disclosure. Voros take note.)

Bruce has many blind spots, but Stevie is not one of them.

Now back to your regularly scheduled "call up Spector now" thread.
Agree, wasn't implying that SC has performed better than Sanneh, simply that he gets a bum rap, and is, IMO, much more complete than heydude.

[dcc134]

Dolo's size is a problem, there is no getting around it. Because he is only 5'6" no matter how good the other parts of his game are, as a defender he is never going to be an automatic first team selection for the US.

The only defender that size who I know of who has made an impact on the international level is Roberto Carlos. And I think we all agree that SC is no Roberto Carlos (whose defensive abilities are also limited.)

Therefore we are going to continue to see a revolving door at RB until someone else comes along to claim the position.

[mschofield]

Dolo's size is a problem, there is no getting around it. Because he is only 5'6" no matter how good the other parts of his game are, as a defender he is never going to be an automatic first team selection for the US.

The only defender that size who I know of who has made an impact on the international level is Roberto Carlos. And I think we all agree that SC is no Roberto Carlos (whose defensive abilities are also limited.)

Therefore we are going to continue to see a revolving door at RB until someone else comes along to claim the position.

Robbie Russell. Did well against arsenal, looks strong in league, adn is physically strong. SC, however, is not that different a physical presense than heydude.

[freisland]

I would choose a healthy in form Dolo over Heydude at this time. I think that Bruce is looking to play one of the two games - probably Panama at home - in a 3 back, and chose accordingly (he's not likely to play Dolo in a 3 back, so he didn't want to pull him from his club to sit. He also figured, (I hope) before the injury, that he was going to start Sanneh - although his qoutes on Sanneh's fitness suggest otherwise.

Why Heydude started the previous couple of games? I can only figure that as Dolo's season was just beginning, Arena went with Frankie because he was mid-season. Bruce never picked Frankie over Dolo before this round of Q's.

I'm hoping it doesn't become a habit. But I'm also hoping that Sanneh gets healthy enough to make the choice academic. And there is no reason not to give Russell a look - except, of course, where he went to college.