Euro-based Player Status...looking poor

[Pyro]

I'm limiting this to frequent national teamers:
Friedel - Unquestioned Starter at Blackburn
Cherundolo - Starter for bottom feeder Hannover
Mathis - Just returning to starting status @ Hannover
Lewis - Starter for Mid Table team
McBride - Occasional starter for Fulham
Boca - Nursing Injury
Reyna - Nursing Injury
Beasley - Pine
Howard - Pine
Keller - Pine
Casey - Pine
Convey - Pine


How exactly do U.S. players get better by heading to Europe? :confused: :mad:

At least Beasley can relate to his buddy Donovan now. I still don't think the stigma of being an American footballer in Europe has been erased by World Cup 2002, as evidenced by the corp that is riding the bench and how quickly they were sent to it! As for the Americans that are regularly starting overseas, at least half the MLS teams, IMHO, are in the same class as their respective teams (with the notable exception of Fulham and Man City who are slightly better than the best teams in MLS.)

I think a clear message has gone out to potential Euro-hoppers in MLS, you can get the cash, but it may be at the expense of playing time or it could be short-term (see Zach Thornton.) Thornton is the worst case scenario, because not only did he not see any PT int Europe, but he was returned to the pine stateside too!

The short message is ..... long live MLS!!!

[Goodfella]

I'm limiting this to frequent national teamers:
Friedel - Unquestioned Starter at Blackburn
Cherundolo - Starter for bottom feeder Hannover
Mathis - Just returning to starting status @ Hannover
Lewis - Starter for Mid Table team
McBride - Occasional starter for Fulham
Boca - Nursing Injury
Reyna - Nursing Injury
Beasley - Pine
Howard - Pine
Keller - Pine
Casey - Pine
Convey - Pine


How exactly do U.S. players get better by heading to Europe? :confused: :mad:

At least Beasley can relate to his buddy Donovan now. I still don't think the stigma of being an American footballer in Europe has been erased by World Cup 2002, as evidenced by the corp that is riding the bench and how quickly they were sent to it! As for the Americans that are regularly starting overseas, at least half the MLS teams, IMHO, are in the same class as their respective teams (with the notable exception of Fulham and Man City who are slightly better than the best teams in MLS.)

I think a clear message has gone out to potential Euro-hoppers in MLS, you can get the cash, but it may be at the expense of playing time or it could be short-term (see Zach Thornton.) Thornton is the worst case scenario, because not only did he not see any PT int Europe, but he was returned to the pine stateside too!

The short message is ..... long live MLS!!!
Stigma on Americans????? Have you ever thought that these players aren't playing because they're not good enough!!!! It's not like MLS when underperforming players play based on their reputation!!!There is pressure to perform every game in Europe and if your not... then you're out. Contrary to what people think in America players don't move to Europe solely for money, yeah they get paid more but most of them move to Europe so can be around better players, thus become better players themselves case in point Michael Owen taking a pay cut to go to Madrid. To say these clubs are comparitive to MLS is an insult!!!

[onefineesq]

Pyro, you just don't know the can of worms that you opened.

[Treetaliano]

Cheese is good.

Really good.

Try Fondue sometime.

[fidlerre]

Cheese is good.

Really good.

Try Fondue sometime.
I prefer...

http://www.ciadvertising.org/SA/fall_02/adv382j/balongnecker/life/bologna1.jpg

Yummm.

[freisland]

Anyone who thinks they go to a PSV, ManU, even Spurs, ManCity or soon to be EPL Reading and get an automatic start simply doesn't understand football, or even reality, really.

If you're going to make a point about MLS, you should make a list involving MLS players. And you should put in minutes played and monies earned. Bease has played plenty of minutes at PSV so far. He has played against Red Star Belgrade in Belgrade (sure, it's no DC United, but still). He has played against Arsenal. He played 20 minutes on Saturday for heavens sake. There is NO midweek game in the MLS at all - saving of course, the Open Cup.

So here are players who are starting/playing regularly (at the moment. At clubs with real payrolls and long rosters it changes frequently) - I'll leave injured players off completely, tho what they have to do with anything I don't know. Is there a "no injury rule" in MLS?

STARTED LAST LEAGUE GAME:
Russell
Gooch
Brad
Marcus
Lewis
Dolo
Mathis
West
Barrett
McBride

PLAYED LAST LEAGUE GAME:
Bease (20 mins)
Convey (10 mins)

STARTED RESERVES:
Spector
JOB
(there are more, I'm sure but I'm too lazy to look them up.)

PLAYED IN CL MATCHES IN THE PAST MONTH TO SIX WEEKS:
Howard
Bease
Russell

START WHEN HEALTHY:
Boca
Reyna
JOB

So really the point is -

1) Surprise of the Year 2003-04 Howard lost his spot on one of the biggest clubs in the world.
2) DaMarcus, replacing 25 million dollar man Robbens lost his start to Peruvian Farfan, but still got minutes
3) Convey can't break D2 #1 side Reading.

And that is somehow a cautionary tale against going to Europe?? Maybe. But I would bet that if you add competitive minutes at the end of one of the Euro seasons and compare to competitive minutes of MLS, MLS will lose in many cases. Convey may see a serious drop off. DeBease might as well, tho PSV have a lot of soccer to play (with any luck).

Which is not so say that you don't take a chance going to Europe (or South America or Mexico or whereever.) Ned Grabavoy would probably be an automatic stater for the Calgary whatevertherenameisthisyear's. That is not exactly a ringing endorsement for the A-league.

[tacos]

The short message is ..... long live MLS!!!

I'll give you some love, Pyro. I wouldn't say to any of those players, "See, you should have stayed in MLS!" but the current Yank Abroad situation does manifest that you've got it made once you get to Europe.

With admittedly rose-colored glasses tinting my view, I expected our boys, especially the recent additions, to make more of an impact than they are making right now.

If anyone were to imply that any of these guys are not getting the playing time they deserve (whether due to being a Yank or any other reason,) I would certainly call BS on that. No one is in the business of paying a bunch of money for someone and THEN discriminating against them. Our boys simply aren't making the impact that we all expected them to or, perhaps more accurately, hoped they would.

Too tired for a cohesive finish. We're in a lull, we'll pull out of it. Go Twins.

[LittleMaradona]

Pyro, you just don't know the can of worms that you opened.
I think that this is the sixth "the sky is falling" thread posted in the past couple of weeks hearlding the demise of the American player in Europe

[appoo]

How about this. These players just aren't that good yet? I'm glad each and everyone of them is going through adversity. Thats how you get better. I'd lose respect for the players that just came crying home because *gasp* they have to fight for their stgartig spots.

And I seriously doubt any single one of these players has any kind of bias against them from the coaches. Thats just an easy excuse. I mean there are some extenuating circumstances. Convey came to Reading injured, and during his earlier appereances seemed to have a bit of trouble adapting. While this is going on, Reading has gone on a tear and is currently sitting on top of the table.

I have no idea why Beaser is on the bench.

Howard deserves to be on the bench. But I have faith that Sir Alex will give him another chance, and in fact am even betting that Sir Alex really wants Timmy to succeed at Old Trafford.

Casey gets regular minutes I thought. Just not as a starter?

[Kansassoccer]

I'm limiting this to frequent national teamers:
Friedel - Unquestioned Starter at Blackburn
Cherundolo - Starter for bottom feeder Hannover
Mathis - Just returning to starting status @ Hannover
Lewis - Starter for Mid Table team
McBride - Occasional starter for Fulham
Boca - Nursing Injury
Reyna - Nursing Injury
Beasley - Pine
Howard - Pine
Keller - Pine
Casey - Pine
Convey - Pine


How exactly do U.S. players get better by heading to Europe? :confused: :mad:

At least Beasley can relate to his buddy Donovan now. I still don't think the stigma of being an American footballer in Europe has been erased by World Cup 2002, as evidenced by the corp that is riding the bench and how quickly they were sent to it! As for the Americans that are regularly starting overseas, at least half the MLS teams, IMHO, are in the same class as their respective teams (with the notable exception of Fulham and Man City who are slightly better than the best teams in MLS.)

I think a clear message has gone out to potential Euro-hoppers in MLS, you can get the cash, but it may be at the expense of playing time or it could be short-term (see Zach Thornton.) Thornton is the worst case scenario, because not only did he not see any PT int Europe, but he was returned to the pine stateside too!

The short message is ..... long live MLS!!!

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. If Convey plays for a team that isn't better than an mls team why is he riding the bench, because he was a consistent starter at D.C. I mena come on Beasely has been with PSV for two months, way to early to say hes riding the bench. And saying that fulham and Man City are slighlty better than the best mls team is ignorant. You could put together a team of the best players in the MLS and they would still lose to either one of these teams. I love the MLS but the only way for U.S soccer to get better is for it to serve as a developmental or a feeder league like Argentina or Brazils leagues.

[Martin Fischer]

This is one of the dumbest posts ever. If Convey plays for a team that isn't better than an mls team why is he riding the bench, because he was a consistent starter at D.C. I mena come on Beasely has been with PSV for two months, way to early to say hes riding the bench. And saying that fulham and Man City are slighlty better than the best mls team is ignorant. You could put together a team of the best players in the MLS and they would still lose to either one of these teams. I love the MLS but the only way for U.S soccer to get better is for it to serve as a developmental or a feeder league like Argentina or Brazils leagues.

So the Metrostars are better than Charlton because Shawn Bartlett bombed with the Metros but did well with Charlton.

How about the Metrostars are way, way better than Once Caladas because Sergio Galvan Rey is like fifth on their depth chart compared to 2nd or 3rd for the Copa Libertadores runnerups.

It's just not that simple, though right now Reading is a better team than DCU, but that doesn't tell you that the entire Coca Cola league is better than every side in MLS. It's really an argument that's impossible to do anything with other than get angry, so I really don't see the point.

[isolde]

Looking poor ? Depends on who to look at it...

Would you prefer to make 1.5 million a year even as a bench wamer in Europe, or to make $200,000 a year to be the MLS starting 11?

[OmiKell]

How exactly do U.S. players get better by heading to Europe? :confused: :mad:

The short message is ..... long live MLS!!!


I agree with 1 thing: long live MLS..... BUT....... A player in any european FIRST LEAGUE EUROPEAN QUALIFIED (Please don't speak about Charlton nor Reading) has a serious advantage against any MLS player.
There is a big difference, principaly in speed and agressivity.

I follow MetroStars for 4 years now, I saw live around 15 games, and I can tell you that Pope, even if I like him (I even have his jersey when I go to Standard Liege), is not match for Onyewu. It's another dimension in marking, technical and physical abilities.

[Treetaliano]

I agree with 1 thing: long live MLS..... BUT....... A player in any european FIRST LEAGUE EUROPEAN QUALIFIED (Please don't speak about Charlton nor Reading) has a serious advantage against any MLS player.
There is a big difference, principaly in speed and agressivity.

I follow MetroStars for 4 years now, I saw live around 15 games, and I can tell you that Pope, even if I like him (I even have his jersey when I go to Standard Liege), is not match for Onyewu. It's another dimension in marking, technical and physical abilities.
Onyewu couldnt hold Pope's jock man.

seriously, try the fondue!

[afgrijselijkheid]

one time, i was eating a burger with my swiss friend mela - i asked he "could you pass me the swiss cheese?" - she said "huh? what is swiss cheese?" - i said "the one with the holes" - she said "ohhhhhhh, in switzerland we just call that cheese"

http://www.mcpasd.k12.wi.us/KMS/Web_Clip_Art/images/CHEESE.jpg

[Martin Fischer]

Still looking for that article where Hiddnick said Beasley looked bigger in Korea. :D

[StillKickin]

Looking poor ? Depends on who to look at it...

Would you prefer to make 1.5 million a year even as a bench wamer in Europe, or to make $200,000 a year to be the MLS starting 11?

Give me that $200,000 where I'm starting and playing any day. These guys become professionals why? Because they love the game and they love playing, the key word being playing. Why, in many interviews, if asked about their lives as a professional soccer player and what's great about it, many reply, "Getting paid to do something that I would do for free." Players deep down, bottom line, just want to play.

[Wahoo]

Give me that $200,000 where I'm starting and playing any day. These guys become professionals why? Because they love the game and they love playing, the key word being playing. Why, in many interviews, if asked about their lives as a professional soccer player and what's great about it, many reply, "Getting paid to do something that I would do for free." Players deep down, bottom line, just want to play.

Yes players want to play, but lets not forget, these are professionals... they are there to make money. An athlete's career is a short one.... they need to make what they can when they can. All those players who say they'd play for free... suppose the team was in a complete financial crisis and needed new players... how many will take a pay cut so the club can bring in new talent (assuming the unions would allow it)? Darn few.

Put it this way, suppose you have a normal business job in marketing which you love and it pays you about $100,000 per year. Suddenly you're offerered an accounting job which you find terribly boring... but will pay you $750,000 a year. What would you do?

It's easy to sit back and say I'd take a lot lesser money to do something I loved (playing every day) but when the opportunity is really there... it's hard to turn it down. I dont' know if I could.

[afgrijselijkheid]

Players deep down, bottom line, just want to play.


more accurately, they like to compete... and that includes for playing time when you are on one of the best 25-30 squads in the world

[freisland]

Still looking for that article where Hiddnick said Beasley looked bigger in Korea. :D

It's too bad the link broke, because it was a beautiful interview, full of empathy and pathos, humor and real, moving emotion. Beside Hiddink's surprise (and it sounded genuine) that Bease was not only small, but really light (and didn't have as good balance as he remembered) he was also amazed that Claudio Reyna, who he had thought was a rather competent CM, is actually terrible. Hiddink took the full blame for the Bease mistake. He explained that he thought Steve Cherundolo was Roberto Carlos - and when he saw Bease standing next to him he figured Bease to be 5-11, 160 or so. Hiddink admitted he should have had them measure and weigh him during the physical, but since PSV is not a big club, they had to save money somewhere.

Anyway, it's a shame the link is lost. I'll see if it is archived somewhere...

Also, I can't believe some of the posts. I mean, look, you've got a guy like Herzog. He's the go to guy at Bremen - one of the elite of the Bund and he can't even get on the field in MLS. I think it's clear where MLS stands in the alleged "big 4"