The Cantona Effect

[Motterman]

Is United finally feeling the loss of Cantona?

Discuss.

[prk166]

Of course. Despite being gone for several seasons, many of which United enjoyed great success, it is only now that his presence is missed on the field. You see, since his retirement, his spirit has been roaming the pitch during the games, magically redirecting the ball at key moments....and...

my god, of course not. Was he great? yes. but he was missed the minute he retired. For the love of god.

[Unorthodox Yank]

Originally posted by Motterman
Is United finally feeling the loss of Cantona?

Discuss.

With all due respect..

say whaaaaaat?

[MikeyM]

Heck dude, the TREBLE was won after Cantona retired. If they are missing anything, it is the driving force of KEANO.

[Motterman]

OK, obviously there is either confusion or disagreement here on what I posted. I'm talking intangibles here. Attacking flair, creative playmaking, etc. It's not goals, wins, cups, etc.
You've seen examples of this before. Sometimes when coaches or players leave, the remaining team sustains a measure of success for awhile, but eventually it tends to dry up a bit. I think Fergie realised this after the year before last and bought Veron. He said we were too predictable in Europe, etc. So he brought in a "brilliant Argie" to do the job. He hasn't panned out as of yet, but shows flashes of potential. It's too bad he doesn't have Keane's desire and passion though. Keane's will to win carried the team to the Treble no doubt, and the team still had the players, experience, and drive to win it all that season. In any case, until Veron produces the goods, Keane's drive won't be enough. So, this is what I'm talking about when I say that United are finally feeling the loss of Cantona. Not so daft, now is it?

[Mac_Howard]

I think Fergie handled the loss of Cantona well when he developed the midfield of Keane, Beckham, Giggs and Scholes. The threat from wide of Beckham and Giggs and the pace through the middle of Cole and Yorke worked very well. But it was predictable - sit on Beckham and Giggs and exploit the weakness in central midfield and Utd could struggle at times.

I think Veron was brought in to sit in the middle of that midfield like this:

-------------- Scholes

Giggs------Veron------Beckham

---------------Keane

(Hope that shows up right. No it didn't. Try again :) )

This would provide him with more attacking options as well as boosting central midfield.

In my view this hasn't worked out - not yet at least - because I think the fluidity of the midfield came from Scholes' unselfish movement linking up the other three. With Scholes further forward and obviously with striking duties (with only RVN up front) the smooth operation of midfield has gone. Veron wants to dominate things not subjugate his abilities to the benefit of the others and there's just no cohesion in midfield anymore.

We finish up with lots of possession but less clear cut scoring opportunities. To a certain extent we got away with this last season because of RVN's and Solksjaer's goals but I think Premiership defences have now figured out RVN a bit more and he's being played out of the game.

I don't think that Fergie has yet figured out how to use Veron to produce a more effective midfield than the original Keane, Beckham, Giggs, Scholes foursome.

I would love to see Veron come good - there's no doubt he has ability - but I have this feeling that he needs more time to work his magic than the Premiership opposition will allow him.

[prk166]

Originally posted by Motterman
OK, obviously there is either confusion or disagreement here on what I posted. I'm talking intangibles here. Attacking flair, creative playmaking, etc. It's not goals, wins, cups, etc.
You've seen examples of this before. Sometimes when coaches or players leave, the remaining team sustains a measure of success for awhile, but eventually it tends to dry up a bit. I think Fergie realised this after the year before last and bought Veron. He said we were too predictable in Europe, etc. So he brought in a "brilliant Argie" to do the job. He hasn't panned out as of yet, but shows flashes of potential. It's too bad he doesn't have Keane's desire and passion though. Keane's will to win carried the team to the Treble no doubt, and the team still had the players, experience, and drive to win it all that season. In any case, until Veron produces the goods, Keane's drive won't be enough. So, this is what I'm talking about when I say that United are finally feeling the loss of Cantona. Not so daft, now is it?

Still a daftee. United didn't win those things when they had flair. So to say the lack of flair is the only issue is just wrong.

[Motterman]

Originally posted by prk166

Still a daftee. United didn't win those things when they had flair. So to say the lack of flair is the only issue is just wrong.

When did I say that the only issue is lack of flair? It was obviously a big enough issue for Sir Alex to spend 28 phooking million pounds on Veron to fill the role though wadn't it?

[StrikerCW]

This is an interesting thread I dug up in my bordem. ITs a good thought, though now I think Rooney has come to the front with the flair that we lost with Cantona, not quite as much yet I might say. But noone can deny it's there.

Also, this could be a good discussion on Veron, taking a page from the 50 questions thread. This thread is from back when Veron just came to the team I believe (and Motter had only been posting for 3 months :D).

Reading macho's post, I could now see Veron in the place of Keano in the 442 with four in the midfield. It might have been a little weak on the defensive side with Scholes Ronaldo and Giggs all attacking whilst Veron is more of a CM than and DCM. But he would definatelly had been able to control play now with Keane gone.

Discuss.

[shazfazam]

I believe Keane, Beckham, Scholes and Giggs getting old or leaving the club has hurt more than Cantona retiring. Those 4 combined to be one of the best midfields EVER!

I think Cantona left at the right time. He left when United could win without him, which they did.

[Invincible]

Wow, 2002..I was a high school freshman back then.. :eek:

[listen_up_fergie]

When did I say that the only issue is lack of flair? It was obviously a big enough issue for Sir Alex to spend 28 phooking million pounds on Veron to fill the role though wadn't it?

I don't think Veron was bought because of a missing Cantona factor....IIRC Cantona was never really a force in Europe anyway. I think Fergie just wanted to adapt a 4-5-1 system with two playmakers in Scholes and Veron....he thought the system would be more effective than the 4-4-2.

[StrikerCW]

Maybe he was not ther eto bring the flair, but I think we can see now he would be useful contrlling the midfield. Similiar to Ballack maybe? Maybe not as good, but you really never know how he would have done if he had had the control of the midfield instead of Keano.