10 min. of injuries, only 3 min. injury time

[CoachCoach]

When will FIFA or someone else step up and be exact with the injury time issue.

Just about every match I watch, I see easily 5-8 minutes of injuries, time-wasting, substitutions, etc. during the second half. Yet, we rarely see more than 3 minutes added on to the match. I feel this encourages teams to waste and fake away the 2nd half.

I think awarding the exact amount of time that was "wasted" to injury time would cut down on teams trying to waste time leading up to the injury time and during injury time. And even if it didn't cut down on the wasting of time, at least the full 45 would be played with the extra minutes added on.

Am I the only one barking up this tree?

Any thoughts? Agree or Disagree? Pro's / con's to enforcing this to the letter of the law?

[eplkewell]

I think it would be good to get the amount of injury time as close as possible, but on the other hand, it could get excessive at points. I want the 90th minute to be near the end of the game. I don't want to have to wait twenty more minutes and have no idea how much time is left. Also, it would be easier for refs fo 'cheat' on the amount of time added if it was a greater amount.

[(TxT)]

Aren't the EPL refs instructed to add on 30 seconds for every sub regardless?

[bunge]

I think the solution is more fouls and cards for time wasting and unsportsmanlike conduct.

[GKbenji]

Hmm, you could fix it once and for all by having a clock that counted down, and stopped whenever the ball was out of play, and then a horn that goes off when the clock hits 00:00.... :)

Studies have shown that the ball is actually in play for only 65-75 minutes of a typical soccer match. But much of the time the ball is out of play is "normal" for the game and not counted for stoppages. Although some leagues may have directives, only "extraordinary" time lost is usually added on, for long injuries or lots of bookings.

Enforcing the letter of the Law would not only add 20+ minutes to the game, but probably isn't necessary. A few more cards for time-wasting might help, but there's still plenty of time in a match to do something about it by scoring. :D "Clock management" is a tactical feature of all sports use a game clock.

[AndyMead]

When will FIFA or someone else step up and be exact with the injury time issue.

Just about every match I watch, I see easily 5-8 minutes of injuries, time-wasting, substitutions, etc. during the second half. Yet, we rarely see more than 3 minutes added on to the match. I feel this encourages teams to waste and fake away the 2nd half.

Holy crap. You're not watching MLS this season. Every game seems to have 4-7 minutes of second half and 1-3 minutes of first half stoppage.

It's out of control. I can think of few cases where 0-0 at the half requires ANY stoppage, yet the MLS default seems to be 2 minutes. They're 45 minute halves - not 47 minute.

There is "time wasting" in every game. It doesn't mean that referees need to add 5 minutes to the end of every freakin' game.

Argentina lost to Brazil earlier this year 3-0 in a WCQ that had 3 Brazilian PKs. There was a grand total of 0 added time in the game - and the players and coaches weren't screaming at the refs over it. It was a 90 minute game.

I think referees have been way too dogmatic in MLS this season about adding time. It's way out of control. MLS games start at 7 minutes past the half hour. Add in 15 minutes for half time and that means there are 98 minutes to fit a game into a 2 hour window. I've recorded all broadcast games this season, and while I started the year giving games an extra 5 minute window, I've long since stretched that out to 15. Games don't end in 2 hours.

Unless you want to go to an MLS 1996-1999 style clock controlled by a time-keeper, then you have to accept the vagueries of added time. Legislating 30 seconds for this 60 seconds for that is just a bad substitute.

[crusio]

I think the solution is more fouls and cards for time wasting and unsportsmanlike conduct.
A combination of more cards and more accurate time added works for me. Something though, just letting teams get away with wasting these games away blows like the wind...

[sokol]

One thing that might help would be to impose a rule that said if you are injured and play is stopped, you must wait at least 5 minutes or if the 4th ref wants to keep track, then like 3 times the amount of time play was help up for your injury. I don't know what the best numbers would be, but I think a huge part of the problem is that a player can go down for like 3 minutes, get taken off in strechers then get up, walk straight to half field and come in 20 seonds later.

Obviously you don't know want to punish players who are legitimately fouled and injured, but it seems to me that if players are legitimately injured they can't usually just get back up and play anyway and need that time to recover. Maybe their could be some sort of standard, and the 4th official could be ultimately responsible and he can make a judgement call. If he thinks it was time wasting, then he can keep him off the field for a little longer.

[CoachCoach]

One thing that might help would be to impose a rule that said if you are injured and play is stopped, you must wait at least 5 minutes or if the 4th ref wants to keep track, then like 3 times the amount of time play was help up for your injury. I don't know what the best numbers would be, but I think a huge part of the problem is that a player can go down for like 3 minutes, get taken off in strechers then get up, walk straight to half field and come in 20 seonds later.

Obviously you don't know want to punish players who are legitimately fouled and injured, but it seems to me that if players are legitimately injured they can't usually just get back up and play anyway and need that time to recover. Maybe their could be some sort of standard, and the 4th official could be ultimately responsible and he can make a judgement call. If he thinks it was time wasting, then he can keep him off the field for a little longer.

I like this idea. Interesting.

[babytiger2001]

I assume this thread has to do with a recent USA WCQ? The thread seems more general to me, more across-the-board stuff, really, so I'm going to dispatch it to the Referee forum.

The mods of that forum can bring it back over to USA Men, if they wish.

[MassachusettsRef]

It might be impossible to find now, since FIFA doesn't do the best job archiving things as they change their site around every few months, but I recall a memo (previous to the 2002 WC, I believe) that gave guidance as to how stoppage time was to be arrived at.

Substitutions were 30 seconds and "major injuries" were 60 seconds, but that's all I can remember for fact. There were also other points, like timewasting and excessive delay after a goal, but I can't remember what the guidance was for that.

And, this was "guidance", it wasn't a memo that had the force of law, which makes it even less likely that it is still available anywhere.

[Ref Flunkie]

It might be impossible to find now, since FIFA doesn't do the best job archiving things as they change their site around every few months, but I recall a memo (previous to the 2002 WC, I believe) that gave guidance as to how stoppage time was to be arrived at.

Substitutions were 30 seconds and "major injuries" were 60 seconds, but that's all I can remember for fact. There were also other points, like timewasting and excessive delay after a goal, but I can't remember what the guidance was for that.

And, this was "guidance", it wasn't a memo that had the force of law, which makes it even less likely that it is still available anywhere.



Do you use this same "equation" when determining added time when you referee? Obviously since most matches have unlimited substitutions, the 30 sec/sub would not work, but I like the 60 seconds per injury guideline. Just curious how other refs determine their injury time.

[MassachusettsRef]

Do you use this same "equation" when determining added time when you referee? Obviously since most matches have unlimited substitutions, the 30 sec/sub would not work, but I like the 60 seconds per injury guideline. Just curious how other refs determine their injury time.Depends on the competition I'm in. In most high-level matches, an injured player is usually off the field within a minute or two off the stoppage for the injury, so the 1 minute makes sense and I usually apply it. Same goes for the 30 seconds in any close match I have with limited substitutions (I say "close" because there's no point in adding 3 minutes to a 6-0 match just because all 6 substitutions were used).

However, in some youth matches or tournaments, especially with serious injuries, players may spend more time on the field during injuries. In such cases--as in all cases, really--it's the referee's discretion and judgement that matters. If a U16 player is down with a head injury for 7 minutes or with a broken leg for 15 minutes in a close match in a major tournament or important league game, you have no choice but to add the time. Trying to get away with 1 minute for a such an injury is just cheating the kids. A similar standard would apply for professional and amateur matches, but, it is far less likely to occur in a pro match and in an amateur match, many times (especially if the injury is particularly serious) the players may not want the added time.

[ref47]

the intent is to add "lost" playing time back to the game. as has been stated, time is lost through the normal run of the game. what we are looking to restore is the excessive lost time; that beyond the normal. and the advice we get on that tells us we must add time, but leaves how much up to the ref. remember, each team had the same amount of time to play - be it 70 minutes or 82 minutes or 76 minutes. so no one is being disadvantaged by the length of the game. all is equal. therefore, the amount of added time is not critical and need not be religiously controlled like pointy ball or round ball games.

[Stan]

Games with limited substitutions are quite different than typical youth games with unlimited subs. I usually do not add any time for normal substitutions, though I may add some if I think that subs are being made for time-wasting purposes. However, I do try to add full time for injury or any other "unusual" delay. I remember adding 30 seconds to a game because a player on the team that had just scored the go-ahead goal with only a few minutes left decided to tie his shoe before stepping up to take the tap. I let everyone know that I was keeping track of this delay. While I could have pulled a card for time-wasting, I saw no need, since my assurance that they would get full time to try to equalize was all the trailing team wanted to hear.

I had a game last weekend where a girl fell and suffered a serious broken bone. The delay was about 35 minutes. Before we restarted, I told the coaches how much time was left and restarted the game from that point.

I tend to give the players some idea of how much time is left, particularly in the last 5 minutes of a game. I will usually announce the remaining time if there is a convenient stoppage where I can do so without unduly distracting them (or me).