Bretos does La Liga....

[Trojan]

This is purely a matter of taste. I can't believe people think there's a right answer.

[monop_poly]

Originally posted by Northside Rovers


Yeah, where does he get off trying to pronounce player names correctly. The nerve! The arrogance!

Exactly - that has to be the zenith (nadir??) of announcer criticisms. Let's look at the whole deal here: look at the ads during an FSW broadcast. I can't imagine how the network makes any money (probably doesn't). Obviously, they have to skimp on the announcing, so we are given a Max overdose. But he knows his stuff and, praise heaven, doesn't try to Americanize the game. He's actually very good doing Argentine league with CB.

[cpwilson80]

Let's chill on the college kid, 18-25 year old stereotypes here. We make up a significant part of the fanbase today and represent the livelihood of MLS' future. Contrary to the statement that we think MLS is the greatest league in the world: I see far more kids wearing jerseys from any other nation or league aside from the US and MLS. A fair amount, such as myself, were probably watching other leagues before MLS existed.

I just watched Roma-Real Madrid with Mike Hill announcing. He is my personal favorite, but I like Max Bretos too. Perhaps something more representitive of my generation is that we appreciate sincerity and lack the patience for imposters (probably developed from every advertiser trying to promote an "extreme" image with their product.)

Bretos always brings enthusiasm, loves the game, and picks up on the flow of the game well. If he doesn't get every call right, I can cut him some slack - the guy calls a ridiculous amount of games from leagues all over the world. I too appreciate the effort of pronouncing the players names correctly instead of Americanizing everything.

Mike Hill may be the antithesis of Bretos concerning style, but he comes off just as well. He is understated and allows the viewer to feel the atmosphere at the game. Another great thing about Hill is that regardless of the color guy, the telecast is at least solid.

I don't think there is a perfect play by play guy for all people. If the person in the booth is able to convey the importance of the game and bring what bit of the live experience into your home they can, it is a job well done.

[TEConnor]

I agree with the statement that this is completely a matter of taste...

But I want to relate an experience that I think we would all prefer:

Back in 1996 I had just purchased a DISH for Prime Deportiva, RAI, and the ESPNs. The first Sunday I had it installed, I flipped on RAI for what I hoped would be some good Italian soccer. What I got was the treat of a lifetime: a direct feed from the Guisseppe Maeza stadium with no graphics and no announcing. THIS WAS HEAVEN. You have no idea how much any announcer takes away from the atmosphere of the game (even the best ones, like the great RAI dude) until you watch and live a match like that. It was broadcast from San Siro, a decent match on the field, but watching with my new audio and video setup was like being there. It never happened again, but I'll never forget that day. What a treat...even the announcements sounded like they were in my living room.

Someday, if I'm a billionaire like Uncle Phil, I'll start up a channel for myself that has broadcasts just like that, only in widescreen. We may not last long as a business, but I will love it for that short moment.

Tim

[Elwood]

Originally posted by Northside Rovers


Yeah, where does he get off trying to pronounce player names correctly. The nerve! The arrogance!

For me (and I only speak for me), I've always found it pretty odd sounding to hear any American attempt to pronounce a Spanish (or any other language) word the way a native would, especially considering that every other word spoken was with an 'English' accent. Just ruins the flow of the wording.

The best example of this was, either late 80's or early 90's, when I started noticing newscasters would pronounce names of Central and South American countries as a Spanish-speaker would say. I think a comedian even had a small bit about it. Nicaragua. Just seeing a newscaster read off 3 or so sentences, with every word pronounced as an American English speaker would (as that's what the casters were), except for that one word, where they attempt to roll the 'R' as is done in Spanish. Always makes me completely ignore what they actually said, and focus on how odd that one word sounds compared to the rest.

Also funny how Americans with Spanish names generally don't get that exact same treatment from Max. It was a US Open Cup match that Max did, last season I think, where he called the Fire vs someone. Diego Gutierrez's name was pronounced exactly like your average American would pronounce it. And knowing Bretos, if he were playing for a Serie A team and not American (I'm 99% sure Diego is American, but not 100%), Bretos would have attempted proper pronunciation.

While I applaud the effort, it's painful to hear. It doesn't flow well. Spanish announcers can get away with it, as well as those with Spanish accents. People with English accents just sound like they're trying too hard.

Not my main problem with Bretos, but the nitpicky one that drove me over the edge, and caused me to mute the volume when he called a match. Like someone else said, he knows the game, and clearly enjoys the job, but just shouldn't be calling matches, at least IMO.

[Elwood]

Originally posted by TEConnor
What I got was the treat of a lifetime: a direct feed from the Guisseppe Maeza stadium with no graphics and no announcing. THIS WAS HEAVEN. You have no idea how much any announcer takes away from the atmosphere of the game (even the best ones, like the great RAI dude) until you watch and live a match like that.

If I remember correctly, ABC (or ESPN) lost the announcing feed of a World Cup match this summer, but the crowd was still there. It was awesome, and I enjoyed it tremendously for the brief time I just watched the match. If it wasn't the World Cup, it was at least an MLS or US Nat match, as Jack and Ty were commentating.

I don't really think of it in terms of 'Americanizing' so much as having a pleasant sound and flow. When one word out of 15-30 is pronounced completely different than all the rest, it just is distracting.

I like hearing the British announcers pronounce the very same names like a Brit would.

But I do agree how announcers sometimes ruin a telecast just by announcing. With only FSWE, and not speaking Spanish, I was initially very surprised how much I enjoyed matches called in Spanish. I understand the game, and don't really need someone telling me what I can see. Of course this wouldn't work for non-fans (or pre-converts), but for me, the game and the crowd is enough. Announcers just don't help all that much. And many times just talk to fill space that doesn't need to be filled.

[anderson]

Elwood, very fair points.

I don’t use the accurate pronunciation of my Portuguese surname in daily life because it includes a phoneme (ão) that just doesn’t exist in English. I also deliberately mispronounce certain Portuguese (and often Spanish) place and personal names so that people can more easily recognize what I’m talking about. I’ve just found it easier to be understood if people don’t have to stop to figure out what you just said, so I get what you're saying. ;)

But I think when you’re calling a soccer game, it’s a good idea to attempt to pronounce the names of players, clubs, and towns correctly. If you don’t understand the language, then the name is going to sound somewhat odd to you regardless of whether it’s pronounced correctly, isn’t it? But if you happen to understand the language, it can be amazingly distracting to hear a Brit announcer completely massacre the pronunciations. Why not at least see if the announcer can get it close for the folks who understand the language?

If the announcer just can’t pull it off and his efforts themselves become distracting, then that’s a different story. But I think that Max and Allen generally do a very good job with the Brazilian and Spanish names.

Max is Cuban, IIRC, which may explain why some of his Spanish pronunciation may sound a little off to someone accustomed to a different Spanish accent.

[sixer1]

on the point of why didn't fsw use sky sports for that la liga match, well one reason is that sky sports in england didn't show that match, they carried the atletico madrid match. I don't really know where they got the feed from most likely from spain's ppv
sky sports does have their own announcers for the la liga because i remember they did a feature on the 10 best goals of the season and on a raul goal the announcer said "wow-wie" in an thick english accent

[Trojan]

Max should definitely stop trying to pronounce the names of players and teams in the native language.

I want to hear "Reel" Madrid and A-jax (hard "j," like the cleaning supply). Until then, I will boycott all things soccer.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by GoDC
Bretos is the best that Fox has. Be thankful they are not subjecting you to Christian Miles or Allen Hopkins for La Liga.

What happen to Toby Charles? He did a couple of Bundesliga broadcasts, and then Hopkins or Miles took over. No fair.

[GoDC]

Originally posted by Alberto


What happen to Toby Charles? He did a couple of Bundesliga broadcasts, and then Hopkins or Miles took over. No fair.

Not sure what happened there. Hopkins does just about every Budesliga game that I watch. I don't like him.

[Alberto]

Originally posted by GoDC


Not sure what happened there. Hopkins does just about every Budesliga game that I watch. I don't like him.

It reminds me of the episode on F troop many years ago when they were auditioning for a new bugeler. This guy comes on a please effortlessly and the next guy blows the horn like Dobbs. Guess who Dobbs chooses. BBBBAAHHHH! RRRRaaahhhh!

Hopkins is so banal. He reminds me of an accountant or mortician. No sense of humor or zest for what he's doing.

[robbief]

Originally posted by BazoDee!
I used to watch Fox Sports NY's EPL highlights show a couple years back with Lionel Bienvenue and he did a better job than Bray-tos, IMHO. When Max joined the crew and they were commentating, Lionel just stole the show. He was fluid, charismatic, and very knowledgeable (not to mention authoritative, since he actually played football somewhere in England).

i used to email back and forth with lionel and believe me, that man had never even watched soccer before doing the epl show. he would basically admit that what he did and said was purely for entertainment value. he was funny on the show (i personally didn't like his style though), and very sarcastic and funny via email, but that guy certainly didn't play soccer professionally anywhere.

[BazoDee!]

I seem to recall either last year or the year before, he responded on air to an email asking if he had ever played pro and he showed a pic from some team in England (which div. I'm not sure.) Perhaps a bit of chicanery?

[Dr. Wankler]

Lionel Bienvenue, on the late lamented (by some) EPL show, once claimed that he played in the old English first division under an assumed name. The assumed name was... wait for it.... hold on... now: Wankler.

It hasn't happened for about six months, but there have been some really frighting Lionel fans who are convinced that I am Lionel Bienvenue because of that moment on his show (and you four people so far know who you are). But alas, I am not currently working as a sports anchor in Denver.