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Englishref
15 Sep 2004, 06:34 PM
In the UCL tonight, Anders was refereeing the Roma vs Dynamo Kiev, when as he blew his whistle for half time, Phillipe Mexes, took his frustration out on the Kiev striker by deliberately kicking him. Frisk rightly sent him off. As Frisk was walking off, a yob from the Roma supporters through a missile (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/3661010.stm) that hit Frisk hard in the centre of his forehead, causing a gaping wound to open, with blood pouring down. After 50 minutes of trying to get patched up and talking to UEFA delegates, it was decided to abandon the game, as Frisk decided the 4th official was too inexperienced to take over such a hostile, volatile and bad-tempered game.

This is what I wrote on the RTR message boards on the subject:

I fully agree with the decision to abandon the game. Having watched the game in pieces throughout the first half, Roma's on-field discipline was as bad as it was off the pitch. The players acted like prima donnas, whinging at any and every decision Frisk gave, putting in some late and terrible tackles, most noticably by Totti who did a repeat of his Euro 2004 tackle, to get cautioned again. All in all, it boiled up and up, with the crowd getting more and more frustrated, until as Frisk blew the half-time whistle, Mexes deliberately and disgracefully kicked out for no reason at the Kiev striker. Frisk correctly sent off Mexes, but unfortunately it proved to come at the worst possible time, and the Roma crowd vented their frustration by throwing a missile at Frisk as he walked off the pitch. Fortunately, the TV cameras catch the yob. Knowing Roma, he'll be given the freedom of the city for doing it.

Now, if Frisk was unable to continue, which according to UEFA, he wasn't, then I completely agree with Frisk's assessment that his fourth official Jonas Eriksson was too inexperienced to take over. He is only 30 and has only been on the FIFA list for 2 seasons. He would have had to come on in his first UCL game, in an extremely hostile, frustrated crowd, with players looking for revenge, and with a first half of continous niggle, spite and bad tempers. IMO, he wouldn't have been able to control it effectively, so the abandonment was correct.

Now the spotlight falls on UEFA. In the past they have virtually encouraged racism and hooliganism by the measily fines and empty threats they persist in issuing. Now it is time for them to get tough. Roma are one of the worst behaved teams both on and off the field in the whole of Europe. <b>Only two seasons ago, they were involved in a mass brawl involving players, police and club officials in their UCL game against Fenebahce. </b>Frisk was also the referee on that day. UEFA, as usual, proved extremely weak. They initally suspended Totti and Lima for 3 games, and ordered Roma to play a game behind closed doors. Roma appealed, and <i>UEFA decided to show Europe their stance on such acts of yobbery and misbehaviour by reducing Totti's ban to 2 games, Lima's to 1, and going back on the behind closed doors ban and instead fining Roma £221,000.</i> Well done UEFA, the consequences are clear for everyone to see tonight.

Totti should be suspended, he clearly has no regard for his fellow players, and will break someone's leg or even end someone's career soon. Roma's fans clearly have no respect for the game, and are a lawless bunch of yobs, for which the Italian FA must be to blame as well (remember the 'fan' who caused the Rome derby to be abandoned after making up the story of a polac that 'killed a child'?) for not throwing the book at them before. Roma's players obviously have no respect for referees, opponents or the game of football itself.

For UEFA to even come out of this with a shred of respect, they must now either throw Roma out of the competition all together, IMO they shouldn't be allowed out of Italy again, or at the very least, make them play all their remaining home group games behind closed doors, dock them points, and give the 3 for this game to Kiev. And while you're at it, double the previous fine. Perhaps, just perhaps, Europe's clubs, which are in danger of becoming as renowned for their violent and anarchic behaviour as South America's and Africa's, may take heed, and sort out their chronic crowd trouble and misbehaving players.

But knowing UEFA, we should expect one of three things. 1) They order a re-match, and give Roma a 5 figure fine. 2) They take a tough stance, possibly ordering a closed doors punishment, and 6 figure fine, only to back down as soon as Roma appeal. 3) Award the 3 points to Kiev, and consider that punishment enough. Take your pick.

Oh, and I wonder what, if anything, Sepp Blatter has to say about this, although he obviously has far more serious things to worry about such as contradicting his own organisation. :mad:

BentwoodBlue
15 Sep 2004, 06:45 PM
I guess my ultimate question is, Why did Frisk get decide wether or not the 4th could handle the match? And secondly, if he is a UEFA ref, isnt he qualified enough? Wasn't he assigned to take control in the event the referee could not continue?

Now, I am not saying I disagree with abandoning the match. As far as I am concerned, the referee was assaulted. Game over. No questions asked.

Michael

rivers
15 Sep 2004, 07:00 PM
Yes, my question is also the same, A) Why have a 4th official if he isn't going to be used and B) Why does Frisk decide.

My understanding was the 4th official comes into the game if one of the 3 officials starts, but cannot continue. If their role has been cut down to just doing subs then they don't need a high end referee for that role.

Jimjamesak
15 Sep 2004, 07:12 PM
Rivers, Bentwood Blue your questions about why the match was canceled is answered in the article:
Uefa delegate Andre Francioli added: "Frisk suspended the game because he wasn't in condition to continue, because he was seriously hurt and because his security was not guaranteed."

Also on Sky Sports News they said it was abandoned because the 4th Official was not senior nor experienced enough, meaning probably, he didn't want to do it.

blackjack
15 Sep 2004, 08:30 PM
Also, if the safety of the refs is deemed to be in danger, you can't just throw a fresh guy into the line of fire. In an unsafe situation, the match must be abandoned.

BentwoodBlue
15 Sep 2004, 09:24 PM
Also, if the safety of the refs is deemed to be in danger, you can't just throw a fresh guy into the line of fire. In an unsafe situation, the match must be abandoned.
I absolutely agreee. I just would have not mentioned the 4ths inexperience personally.

Caesar
15 Sep 2004, 09:34 PM
Every referee's association I have been a member of has had a very strict and common policy - any assault on a match official results in the match being abandoned. So naturally I agree with this decision.

kwik1980
15 Sep 2004, 09:35 PM
Video of the incident, also posted on the Italy boards here:

http://www.ayksolutions.com/~chaser2k/Frisk1.avi
http://www.ayksolutions.com/~chaser2k/Frisk2.avi

The 2nd one gives you a good view of the object bouncing off Frisk's head. Not a pleasant sight at all. Word is that it was a cigarette lighter, or something like that.

Speculation is that Roma will get, at minimum a 4-6 match ban for hosting European matches. UEFA's disciplinary committee will take up the case on Thursday. (Found in this article: http://www.channel4.com/sport/football_italia/sep15j.html As well as off the UEFA website)

No word on weather or not this match has been officially declared a forefit.

GlennAA11
15 Sep 2004, 10:34 PM
hasn't this club been in trouble in the past for various bad acts by their supporters? UEFA definitely needs to lay the hammer down. A slap on the wrist isn't going to make much differnce.

MidwestRef
15 Sep 2004, 11:55 PM
I'd personally a) force Roma to play the rest of their CL games on the road this year and b) ban them from any UEFA competitions next year. I wouldn't want to have the other teams lose revenue from a forfeit this year. Note I didn't say have Roma games in neutral sites. Play them at the other team's location. Make Roma pay for travel, lodging, meals, etc. while the other team gets the revenue from the gate and concessions. Hit Roma where it counts - in the pocketbook. That may be the only way to make Roma deal with its fans behavior, because other efforts obviously haven't worked one bit.

I hope Frisk is all right. I don't even want to look at the video, because I get squeamish at the sight of a lot of blood. All in all, a totally disgraceful night for Roma. In all honesty, Frisk is lucky he wasn't killed or blinded. A cigarette lighter tossed from a balcony carries a lot of force when it reaches ground level.

Englishref
16 Sep 2004, 08:53 AM
I'd personally a) force Roma to play the rest of their CL games on the road this year and b) ban them from any UEFA competitions next year. I wouldn't want to have the other teams lose revenue from a forfeit this year. Note I didn't say have Roma games in neutral sites. Play them at the other team's location. Make Roma pay for travel, lodging, meals, etc. while the other team gets the revenue from the gate and concessions. Hit Roma where it counts - in the pocketbook. That may be the only way to make Roma deal with its fans behavior, because other efforts obviously haven't worked one bit.

I hope Frisk is all right. I don't even want to look at the video, because I get squeamish at the sight of a lot of blood. All in all, a totally disgraceful night for Roma. In all honesty, Frisk is lucky he wasn't killed or blinded. A cigarette lighter tossed from a balcony carries a lot of force when it reaches ground level.

UEFA only tend to make teams play in a neutral venue if the safety of everyone cannot be gauranteed, such as when they made Israeli teams play in Cyprus because of the Palestinian terrorist threat.

What is much more likely is they will force Roma to play a certain number of games, or even the rest of their European games, behind closed doors. That's what they did last time Roma were in trouble, 2 seasons ago, when they'replayers got invovled in a distgusting melee involving opposition players, club officials and police. Only upon appeal, UEFA weakily backed down and changed their mind.

Roma are also renowned for their crowd trouble. Their fans regularly take flares and fireworks into the ground, and Glenn Hoddle, who was at their Serie A game on the weekend, said their fans were pelting the Fiorentina fans with objects. In last season's Rome derby, a fan invaded the pitch, made up that a police car had ran down a child outside the ground, the game was abandoned and there were violent clashes outside the ground between the rival fans.

So Roma do have a chronic problem, and their players are just as culpable. Their behaviour sets off the fans, and it was Mexes' petulant kick and subsequent red card that lead to the incident with Frisk.

UEFA must finally show they have some balls and make a major example of Roma.

MidwestRef
16 Sep 2004, 11:31 PM
What is much more likely is they will force Roma to play a certain number of games, or even the rest of their European games, behind closed doors.


While I understand this is the "normal" course of action, I think that forcing Roma to play on the road is a better penalty. First, they lose the home gate revenue, which they would lose anyway playing in an empty stadium. However, playing on the road 1) gives Roma an extra penalty playing in a road game and 2) forces an extra monetary penalty on Roma with the typical road game expenses for the team and staff. Simply playing in an empty stadium doesn't give that extra "oopmh" of a punishment that this incident so richly deserves. Roma would only lose gate revenue.

If Roma receives this penalty and complains, tough. The club should do more to keep its fans under control. I wouldn't want to see the other CL games forfeited, because then the other teams lose revenue from lost games (even though they are wins). The "all road" game proposal would rectify that problem.

UEFA must make a firm stand and hand out a severe punishment to Roma. No one on the field - referee, manager, player, or support staff - should have to fear for their safety because of idiots in the stands.

Alberto
17 Sep 2004, 08:06 AM
Absolutely horrible. I hope Frisk recovers both physically and psychologically from the violent act. I agree that playing the balance of their fixtures at their opponents sends the right message. I also think that banning them from all UEFA competitions for next year is just and fair. There is way too much violence in football. A hardline needs to be taken for the sake of not just the referees, but for the game.

karps
17 Sep 2004, 09:02 AM
In our state Premier youth league, a club with this kind of behavior would be expelled from the league. Why would UEFA not simply pull the club's certification to play in FIFA-sanctioned matches, including Serie A, UCL, and any Cup series. If the players want to play unsanctioned friendlies against the Little Sisters of the Poor, let them.

The joy of seeing a bunch of undeserving millionaires (players, manager, owner) out on the streets with a total elimination of revenue would add two to three years to my life.

But I'm not vindictive!

Englishref
17 Sep 2004, 05:41 PM
Absolutely horrible. I hope Frisk recovers both physically and psychologically from the violent act. I agree that playing the balance of their fixtures at their opponents sends the right message. I also think that banning them from all UEFA competitions for next year is just and fair. There is way too much violence in football. A hardline needs to be taken for the sake of not just the referees, but for the game.

The problem is, UEFA are incredibly weak when it comes to dealing with a whole club. Individual players is fine, they're happy to ban them for 8 games for spitting, but not when it comes to taking on some of the biggest clubs in the world.

Thankfully, English football has seen the end, in the vast majority of cases, of racism in crowds, and crowd trouble. However, on the continent, and in particular in Eastern European countries, the crowds are still inherently racist, despite the fact that they're teams usually have at least one black player. I've lost count of the number of times Arsenal have gone to Russia, the Ukraine, Slovakia, Turkey, etc, and had our black players booed, taunted, and even had things thrown at them. Arsenal have complained to UEFA and the club usually ends up with a 4 or low 5 figure fine, and a warning. It is ridiculous. The club's do nothing about it.

Fortunately the 'bigger' countries like France, Germany, Holland and Spain are very good wrt to crowds, as are the Scandanavian countries. Italy is getting worse.

So don't expect UEFA to be too tough, and don't expect their initial punishment to be the final punishment either. They're known for backing down as well. Although the one thing that may help them is the universal, and Europe-wide condemnation of it, and the overwhelming feeling that Roma must be severly punished.

superdave
19 Sep 2004, 10:21 AM
What is much more likely is they will force Roma to play a certain number of games, or even the rest of their European games, behind closed doors. That's what they did last time Roma were in trouble, 2 seasons ago,
If I may use the passive voice for dramatic effect, the hammer must be brought down most forcefully.

Here in the US, where referees in the major sports all have unions, there would be an extra element in the equation, namely, if the punishment were too soft, the union would refuse to let its members got to Roma. Might that happen in this case?

Englishref
19 Sep 2004, 07:46 PM
If I may use the passive voice for dramatic effect, the hammer must be brought down most forcefully.

Here in the US, where referees in the major sports all have unions, there would be an extra element in the equation, namely, if the punishment were too soft, the union would refuse to let its members got to Roma. Might that happen in this case?

I suppose it's possible! In England, all referees are members of FAMOA (Football Association Match Officials Association), although this is dependant of the FA. What we would class as ur 'union' is The Referees Assocaition, of which referees in England pay a membership fee.

Now when you break free from grass roots football and enter the Professional Game, I don't know what happens tbh. In England, I suppose their 'union' would be the PGMOB (Professional Game Match Officials Board), although that is also their employer. As for when you talk about FIFA, I wouldn't have thought they'd have any sort of union, other than FIFA/UEFA. So I very much doubt that would happen, however, it is likely that Anders Frisk will be kept away from Roma for a while (like he was after the virtual riot the last time he was there), not because of anything he did wrong, but just to avoid problems and let things cool down.

However, in England, Bedfordshire FA referees organised a strike after one of their referee's was punched after sending a player off and had his jaw broken! :eek:

MassachusettsRef
21 Sep 2004, 03:03 PM
The verdict:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/news/Kind=1/newsId=234343.html

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=310911&cc=5901

Claymore
21 Sep 2004, 03:20 PM
The verdict:

http://www.uefa.com/competitions/UCL/news/Kind=1/newsId=234343.html

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=310911&cc=5901

UEFA to Roma: "meow"

MidwestRef
21 Sep 2004, 09:54 PM
The penalty's what I expected, but not as severe as it should have been.