View Full Version : Kerry on Iraq (honestly)
mozilla
13 Sep 2004, 09:54 PM
In all seriousness, can someone tell me what Kerry's position is on Iraq?
I lost track after a few flip-flops.
Ombak
13 Sep 2004, 09:59 PM
In all seriousness, can someone tell me what Kerry's position is on Iraq?
I lost track after a few flip-flops.
Hmmm. I'm not sure if he's in favor of nation-building or not. I'm not sure if he negotiates with terrorists or not. And I'm not sure if he thinks we should be sensitive or not.
But I do know that "all of the above" describes Bush.
Ombak
13 Sep 2004, 09:59 PM
Why do posters like Mozilla get to keep trolling the forum unchecked?
mozilla
13 Sep 2004, 10:04 PM
Hmmm. I'm not sure if he's in favor of nation-building or not. I'm not sure if he negotiates with terrorists or not. And I'm not sure if he thinks we should be sensitive or not.
But I do know that "all of the above" describes Bush.
See, I ask you about Kerry and you can't even give an answer. You tell me about Bush, however, I know what Bush stands for.
Chicago1871
13 Sep 2004, 10:13 PM
Why do posters like Mozilla get to keep trolling the forum unchecked?
There was a brief discussion on this "topic" last week in the mod forum. Unfortunately, no decisions were made.
Chicago1871
13 Sep 2004, 10:17 PM
See, I ask you about Kerry and you can't even give an answer. You tell me about Bush, however, I know what Bush stands for.
How exactly does he stand? Has he decided yet if the war on terror is unwinable, or is it winable again? Was the intelligence leading up to Iraq bad, or is he back to calling it good again?
http://www.toonapalooza.net/wb/dizzydizzy.jpg
Ted Cikowski
13 Sep 2004, 10:20 PM
I wonder how many pages this thread will go before someone actually answers the question.
Ombak
13 Sep 2004, 10:24 PM
I wonder how many pages this thread will go before someone actually answers the question.
Infinite I hope. mozilla doesn't merit a reply.
Ian McCracken
13 Sep 2004, 10:28 PM
In all seriousness, can someone tell me what Kerry's position is on Iraq?
Honestly, I think it depends on what day of the week it is and who's in his audience at the time he's speaking.
nicephoras
13 Sep 2004, 10:47 PM
Honestly, I think it depends on what day of the week it is and who's in his audience at the time he's speaking.
Ironically enough, the above perfectly describes the recorded opinions of a certain Abraham Lincoln on the issue of slavery and "the black race".
Jacen McCullough
13 Sep 2004, 10:54 PM
Honestly, I think it depends on what day of the week it is and who's in his audience at the time he's speaking.
While I haven't seen every speech he's given, it's been my understanding that Kerry's position on Iraq is, and has been, that he doesn't really like the fact that the US is bogged down there, but we cannot simply cut and run. He's stated that he wants to appeal to the international community (most prominantly the UN) that Bush has spurned and insulted, to come in and help to stabilize the situation. He wants to get US troops out of there sooner rather than later.
If he's changed that position, I haven't heard about it yet.
Ian McCracken
13 Sep 2004, 11:03 PM
Ironically enough, the above perfectly describes the recorded opinions of a certain Abraham Lincoln on the issue of slavery and "the black race".
I know Abe Lincoln, Abe Lincoln is an idol of mine. John Kerry is no Abe Lincoln.
nicephoras
13 Sep 2004, 11:16 PM
I know Abe Lincoln, Abe Lincoln is an idol of mine. John Kerry is no Abe Lincoln.
No, he's certainly not. (Neither is Bush, of course.) I was merely responding to your denigration of Kerry's different take on an issue depending on which crowd he was speaking to.
BenReilly
13 Sep 2004, 11:36 PM
Why do posters like Mozilla get to keep trolling the forum unchecked?
He wasn't trolling.
Roel
14 Sep 2004, 12:21 AM
It is trolling. Bush (Mozilla's choice for president) has had a half a dozen different reasons for invading Iraq, including several that contradicted earlier positions, and several that contradicted reality.
The term "flip-flopping" is from the Bush campaign, and does not accurately describes Kerry's position on Iraq. If reasoned people change their opinions based on new information, so be it.
Bush changes his mind based on whims and sound bites. Kerry, I think, was genuinely confused by the intelligence provide him (and other member of Congress.) I agree with Jacen and his summary. We should not have gone there. Now that we are there, we need to clean up.
Dan Loney
14 Sep 2004, 02:29 AM
As someone who actually plans to vote for Kerry (honestly), I don't care what his position is. I just want someone who isn't George Bush, and who didn't hire the people that Bush hired, in charge.
I don't think even he knows what to do about Iraq. He won't know how bad (or good - ha) the situation really is until he's sworn in. Well, or unless Bush lets him in on the briefings between November and January.
Anyone who looks at Iraq right now and is thinking "Ooh, yeah. Gimme more of that," well, Kerry's probably not your guy.
Samarkand
14 Sep 2004, 02:34 AM
In all seriousness, can someone tell me what Kerry's position is on Iraq?
I lost track after a few flip-flops.
To neutralise all those Weapons of Mass Destruction? Y'know, the ones that can be launched within 15 minutes and pose a clear and present danger to the USA?
BenReilly
14 Sep 2004, 05:53 AM
The term "flip-flopping" is from the Bush campaign, and does not accurately describes Kerry's position on Iraq. If reasoned people change their opinions based on new information, so be it.
Except when that "new information" is Howard Dean's poll numbers.
Chris M.
14 Sep 2004, 08:54 AM
See, I ask you about Kerry and you can't even give an answer. You tell me about Bush, however, I know what Bush stands for.
Oh, do you. Why don't you answer your own question as it applies to Bush. If you want to say "stay the course" I will accept that, except that it is a horrible answer as the situation has consistently deteriortated to the point that we have very little secured in the entire country.
Give us the Bush plan as I am unclear. More troops? International involvement? Do we get insurgents or negotiate with them (this seems to change from week to week)? One Iraq or a separate Kurdistan?
You see, I have been paying close attention, and I have no idea what Bush stands for.
While we are asking questions, here is one more. After his administration has admitted that they were caught by surprise, and didn't plan for a large scale insurgency, and after the abortion that is Abu Ghraib, why haven't any senior people lost their jobs? How many of the 1,000 dead and nearing 10,000 injured wouldn't have suffered that fate if Rumsfeld et al had done their job planning the war and the aftermath? (honestly).
Jesus H.W. Christ, I can remember amateur war geeks (like me) on these very boards saying "what's the exit strategy" before the war even started. Is it too much for the people getting paid to do this to ask the same questions, and actually come up with acceptable answers?
There. Rant over. I will patiently await as Mozilla searches his talking point sites to come up with an answer for what George Bush stands for.
Mel Brennan
14 Sep 2004, 08:58 AM
He wasn't trolling.
Sure s/he was. S/He can figure out how to get up on those hind legs, waddle over to the PC, and get on BigSoccer to ask that question, s/he can certainly figure out how to go here (http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_security/iraq.html), and get the answer without coming here at all.
Trolling, plain and simple.
Now, had S/HE given us the above link, and asked for debate/discussion on Kerry's position on Iraq, its feasibility, etc., that would have NOT been trolling.
There's no question that the post that launched this thread was not hunting real debate and discussion.
Unless, of course, trolling in fact CONSTITUTES debate and discussion in the Zilla household.
Which, given her/his post history, may in fact be the case.