Connolly: Convey Makes Change for the Better

[footfetish]

some interesting comments here (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/feature?id=309097&cc=5901) from both arena and convey.

including this gem:


"After being at D.C. United for five years, it was time to move on," Convey said. "All the progress I've made with the National Team and as a player has been because of MLS and playing at D.C., but I knew I was ready for a change. I wanted to make the next step in the process, and come to a place where I'm battling every day to get into the lineup will only make me better.


"And that's the type of competitiveness and intensity that makes you play to your potential."
i couldn't agree more. he needed this and dc united did as well. i wish him the best and i sincerely hope that he fills his potential, as he had obviously plateaued here. maybe playing in england will motivate him.

[Sanguine]

sounds like he had a bad case of "grass is greener" syndrome.

[skippy]

But isn't the grass greener? He makes more money, he's more famous, and he's playing in an (arguably) better league with a better shot to make it to the Premiership.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should play hard for whatever team you're with. But after awhile, and especially where you've been so teased by the Premiership, you might get antsy hanging around in the MLS and not find it to be a challenge anymore.

[onefineesq]

But isn't the grass greener? He makes more money, he's more famous, and he's playing in an (arguably) better league with a better shot to make it to the Premiership.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should play hard for whatever team you're with. But after awhile, and especially where you've been so teased by the Premiership, you might get antsy hanging around in the MLS and not find it to be a challenge anymore.

And this is what I don't get. For something to not be challenging anymore, one would think that it is currently being mastered. Convey was not tearing up MLS and dominating opposing teams by any stretch of the imagination. better league? It was the money. I wish guys would just come out and say it. I would have so much more respect for guys if they did.

[skippy]

True dat. It would have been easier (and harder) to say so long to him if he had been tearing up the league. And maybe he would be going to a Premiership team instead of still hoping to go to a Premiership team.

[Andy Bennett]

But, as someone mentioned before, if he had gone to Spurs last year he would have been in the premiership. In any event maybe he didn't play so well over the last year of his MLS career precisely BECAUSE he was disappointed in not moving to Spurs and sees a move to Div1, (or whatever it's called this week), as a stepping stone towards that aim.

That makes sense to me.

Oh, hang on... it was me that said it, wasn't it.

As you were fellas...

[Hal]

How to start your day with a positive attitude:

1. Create a new folder on your computer.
2. Name it George W. Bush.
3. Send it to the trash.
4. Empty the trash.
5. Your computer will ask you: Do you really want to get rid of George W.Bush?
6. Answer calmly, Yes, and press the mouse button firmly...


With a sig like that, you should be carded and only be allowed to post in the politics forum. No place for that here. Want to talk politics, take your first amendment expressions to the appropriate soapbox.

[DoctorD]

Convey always seemed to have this desperate quality about playing in England. Like the nerd who latches on to the first girl who pays attention to him. Even after Spurs had a complete change in coaching staff he seemed focused to go there. Does anyone know how seriously he looked into other European options? (Or was anyone else even interested?)

[Sandon Mibut]

I don't have a probelm with Bobby's comments. The reality is he could play like ass for DC United and still start. I don't blame a kid for getting complacent under those circumstances, especially when the organization had done nothing but suck since he joined it. (Partially Bobby's fault, I admit, but far more the fault of management and the other players.)

As to the specific points, I think he's right and I don't think it's just about the money.

I've only ever seen one first division game in person and never seen one on television so I don't know if it's a "better league" than MLS in terms of still or level of play.

I do know this. It does have better atmosphere and is more intense. The crows at some venues at that level may be the size, or even smaller, than MLS, but they'll still provide more passion and atmosphere than you get at MLS games.

That's not a slight on MLS, it's just the way it is. In our culture, most people go to the games and clap when something happens. They don't stand for 90 minutes and they sure as hell don't sing without prompting. Those things don't happen in America. There's a reason our country invented "cheerleaders, who back in the day used to actually lead cheers, and game up with jumbo-trons advocating you to clap your hands and stomp your feet and jock rock over intercoms. We don't have it in our culture, our history, to go to events and take the lead like that.

Now, I know members of the Barra Brava and the SE and La Norte and the Supporters Groups at MLS venues around the country will take exception to this. And, they should. But they should also recognize that they ARE the exception. I love it when there's a good crowd at DCU and, from my seat in the mezzanine, the supporters' groups start rocking, the stands are bouncing and you guys are all singing along. But even at your best, you're still the soccer version of the religous right - a very vocal minority. (I mean that in a good way; I don't particularly agree with the religious right but they are loud, organized, care about their cause more than most and have a disporportionate amount of influence, similar to supporters groups in MLS.) God bless ya' for your commitment but, try as you may, the atmosphere you create isn't the same. It's certainly not your fault. It's the fault of the hand-sitting majority of the fans. But we're Americans. We sit and watch and occassionally cheer when something happens then sit back down and look for the next vendor.

So, the reality is the atmosphere in England, even in the first division, is different. I've only been to that one first division game but I've been to several EPL games and a handful of games on "the continent" and in Latin/South America and the atmosphere is louder and more electric, even when the crowd size was similar to a big match at RFK. Those of you who've been to a game in England or Europe know what I'm talking about. (BTW, I realize - and hate - that I come across as some Euro-poser. That's not my intent, but I do recognize it may seem that way. I certainly don't think I 'm a better fan just because I've seen some games abroad and some of you haven't.)

Plus, they talk footy 24-7 over there. There are far more newspapers in England than in the US and they all cover the sport the way most papers here cover baseball or the NFL. TV shows, advertising, radio - the sport is the lead topic. And, if you're in a smaller town like Reading, the club really is a HUGE deal. Everyone may not go to your games, but most of the people in town damn sure care about the results of your games. That can't be said in MLS. Hell, save for the Redskins, that can't really be said about any pro sport in the DC area.

As an American, I'm sure that's novel and enjoyable for Convey. To go from an environment where your sport is an afterthought to one where it is the lead item every day must make you feel better about what you do for a living. That's part of the atmosphere and the intensity the players talk about and it's something that MLS won't be able to match, no matter how many soccer specific stadiums they build.

And, another reality is those teams are much deeper than an MLS roster. It's a dog-fight for a Bobby Convey to get into the starting lineup because the team has the budget to buy more players. Certainly a bigger budget than any MLS team. And, for most of the players there, playing footie is all they got. If that fails, the aren't going to have any Project 40 money to send them to college to prepare them for a nice white collar job. If they wash out as a young player, it's likely a blue collar or service industry job. That creates an intensity for playing time we don't have here.

Your average MLS player washes out and he takes his degree and goes and makes more money than he makes here. The P40 kids go to college. Beats the hell out of the alternative in England. It's certainly better for the players here but it limits the intensity that desparation can create, of training every day. Basically, every day Bobby is training with 28 or so Dema Kovalenko's.

And, if his ankles can survive, that will only make him better. And, that was something he was never gonna get in MLS.

So, yeah, it's shame that Bobby's comments admit he was kinda phoning it in at the end of his stint here and that he will likely reach a potential he never came close to showing at United. And, while some of that is his fault, there are also a lot of other issues that go into it and go towards explaining his comments.

[type_32]

But isn't the grass greener? He makes more money, he's more famous, and he's playing in an (arguably) better league with a better shot to make it to the Premiership.

Also, they get a lot more rain, so the grass *is* greener.

[Sanguine]

There are far more newspapers in England than in the US
Did you mean more per capita?

[John L]

HAL - Thanks for the tip - I wouldn't have noticed them if you hadn't brought them up - Have a nice day :)

About Convey - I wish him (and any other American player) all the best in their endeavors to play in Europe or South America - Did he seem to languish the past few years at DCU - Well - sorry but I think Ray Hudson had a lot to do with that - We all loved his wanking-off comments but his coaching was pretty uni-dimensional - he definitely had the sydrome for being gung-ho with the vets and never bother with developing young players

No doubt about it that Bobby and Spurs got screwed last year by the Immigration Board - Spurs just didn't bribe (enough) the board like ManU did last year - And when he came back everything was very funky after his going away ceremony - And no counseling or support from the coaches - Absolutely essential for a young (or any other) player

It will be interesting to see if The Bruce continues to experiment/broaden with Convey at Left Full - Bobby's definitely more a Left Half than Left Full but playing on defense only teaches him another position and makes him a better player at Left Half

[JoeW]

I think what Arena's comment implies (maybe I'm reading too much into this) is that Bobby Convey is a truly tremendous talent but he needs to be pushed more. Part of the dilemma of American soccer is that if you're really truly good, there tends to be a big gap between you and your peers (at least developmentally). We try to provide more peer competition with the P-40/Residency/ODP efforts but they often end up being mostly all-star affairs with some efforts more or less successful than others.

I think Bobby Convey works hard, wants to succeed and has some unique skills that are difficult to teach and/or acquire. But for all the criticism of Hudson (and I've been part of his critics too), his benching of Convey his first year year probably helped Bobby become a much harder, ruthless and well-rounded player. I don't believe a kick-in-the-ass works for all players. But there is something to be said for a world where if you start tomorrow is determined by how you did today. Not your potential. Or how you did last season. Or what you might do next month.

I'm convinced that if he could, Bobby Convey would play soccer 365 days a year for as many hours a day as his body would let him. He's now in a world that lives soccer 365 days a year, every hour of the day.

[owendylan]

I don't have a probelm with Bobby's comments. The reality is he could play like ass for DC United and still start. I don't blame a kid for getting complacent under those circumstances, especially when the organization had done nothing but suck since he joined it. (Partially Bobby's fault, I admit, but far more the fault of management and the other players.)

As to the specific points, I think he's right and I don't think it's just about the money.

I've only ever seen one first division game in person and never seen one on television so I don't know if it's a "better league" than MLS in terms of still or level of play.

I do know this. It does have better atmosphere and is more intense. The crows at some venues at that level may be the size, or even smaller, than MLS, but they'll still provide more passion and atmosphere than you get at MLS games.

That's not a slight on MLS, it's just the way it is. In our culture, most people go to the games and clap when something happens. They don't stand for 90 minutes and they sure as hell don't sing without prompting. Those things don't happen in America. There's a reason our country invented "cheerleaders, who back in the day used to actually lead cheers, and game up with jumbo-trons advocating you to clap your hands and stomp your feet and jock rock over intercoms. We don't have it in our culture, our history, to go to events and take the lead like that.

Now, I know members of the Barra Brava and the SE and La Norte and the Supporters Groups at MLS venues around the country will take exception to this. And, they should. But they should also recognize that they ARE the exception. I love it when there's a good crowd at DCU and, from my seat in the mezzanine, the supporters' groups start rocking, the stands are bouncing and you guys are all singing along. But even at your best, you're still the soccer version of the religous right - a very vocal minority. (I mean that in a good way; I don't particularly agree with the religious right but they are loud, organized, care about their cause more than most and have a disporportionate amount of influence, similar to supporters groups in MLS.) God bless ya' for your commitment but, try as you may, the atmosphere you create isn't the same. It's certainly not your fault. It's the fault of the hand-sitting majority of the fans. But we're Americans. We sit and watch and occassionally cheer when something happens then sit back down and look for the next vendor.

So, the reality is the atmosphere in England, even in the first division, is different. I've only been to that one first division game but I've been to several EPL games and a handful of games on "the continent" and in Latin/South America and the atmosphere is louder and more electric, even when the crowd size was similar to a big match at RFK. Those of you who've been to a game in England or Europe know what I'm talking about. (BTW, I realize - and hate - that I come across as some Euro-poser. That's not my intent, but I do recognize it may seem that way. I certainly don't think I 'm a better fan just because I've seen some games abroad and some of you haven't.)

Plus, they talk footy 24-7 over there. There are far more newspapers in England than in the US and they all cover the sport the way most papers here cover baseball or the NFL. TV shows, advertising, radio - the sport is the lead topic. And, if you're in a smaller town like Reading, the club really is a HUGE deal. Everyone may not go to your games, but most of the people in town damn sure care about the results of your games. That can't be said in MLS. Hell, save for the Redskins, that can't really be said about any pro sport in the DC area.

As an American, I'm sure that's novel and enjoyable for Convey. To go from an environment where your sport is an afterthought to one where it is the lead item every day must make you feel better about what you do for a living. That's part of the atmosphere and the intensity the players talk about and it's something that MLS won't be able to match, no matter how many soccer specific stadiums they build.

And, another reality is those teams are much deeper than an MLS roster. It's a dog-fight for a Bobby Convey to get into the starting lineup because the team has the budget to buy more players. Certainly a bigger budget than any MLS team. And, for most of the players there, playing footie is all they got. If that fails, the aren't going to have any Project 40 money to send them to college to prepare them for a nice white collar job. If they wash out as a young player, it's likely a blue collar or service industry job. That creates an intensity for playing time we don't have here.

Your average MLS player washes out and he takes his degree and goes and makes more money than he makes here. The P40 kids go to college. Beats the hell out of the alternative in England. It's certainly better for the players here but it limits the intensity that desparation can create, of training every day. Basically, every day Bobby is training with 28 or so Dema Kovalenko's.

And, if his ankles can survive, that will only make him better. And, that was something he was never gonna get in MLS.

So, yeah, it's shame that Bobby's comments admit he was kinda phoning it in at the end of his stint here and that he will likely reach a potential he never came close to showing at United. And, while some of that is his fault, there are also a lot of other issues that go into it and go towards explaining his comments.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Money was a nice benefit to the move, but he needed a bigger challenge, one that MLS couldn't provide because his place on the team was pretty much assured for every game regardless.

[JohnR]

Once again, Sandon has it right. This guy should have about 10 green boxes by his name, but they won't let me give him any more rep. Why don't one of you fill in for me?

He's a helluva diplomat, too. I'm not so nice. I look at it this way: U.S. soccer fans are so desperate for MLS to succeed that they permit the league -- and players -- to walk all over them. No way Bobby Convey gets away with the ******** that he pulled for DCU in England. (Or, to strike closer to home for me, DaMarcus Beasley's sleepwalking for the Fire in '04.) Even if the manager cut Convey a break, the fans would not. They'll chase a player who doesn't play hard, each and every game, right out of town.

That's why I prefer English soccer to MLS, even though I'm also desperate for MLS to succeed. So desperate that I spend money to bring my family to several MLS games per year and watch the league frequently on TV, even as I see many players going through the motion.

MLS has many advantages for the developing young U.S. player -- lots of job openings including starting positions, close to home, no work permits, etc. But it's a dangerous place for players who are not 100% self-motivated, as Convey clearly is not.

I liked MLS better when Frank Yallop temporarily benched Landon Donovan last year for going through the motions. Unfortunately, that kind of thing does not happen nearly enough in MLS -- which is a drawback not only for the fans, but also for the young players themselves.

[Funkfoot]

I look at it this way: U.S. soccer fans are so desperate for MLS to succeed that they permit the league -- and players -- to walk all over them. No way Bobby Convey gets away with the ******** that he pulled for DCU in England. (Or, to strike closer to home for me, DaMarcus Beasley's sleepwalking for the Fire in '04.) Even if the manager cut Convey a break, the fans would not. They'll chase a player who doesn't play hard, each and every game, right out of town.


You must have missed the "Does Convey Really Want to Play for DC" thread. Lots of people were ready to see him go. Of course that's just the internet nuts / religious fanatics talking on BS.

I didn't dislike Bobby (I want all our players to succeed - even Albright, Stokes and Alegria), but I didn't think the team would miss him much. So far I think I was right.

[onefineesq]

With a sig like that, you should be carded and only be allowed to post in the politics forum. No place for that here. Want to talk politics, take your first amendment expressions to the appropriate soapbox.

And I am sure that you have taken equal time out to chastise the legions of people here who have had and do currently have sigs that chastise opposing candidates? :rolleyes:

Revelation edited: Please do not respond to trolls. Calling people names is against the TOS and has been edited. I will remove any posts that continue this non-DC United related tangent! Take it elsewhere (i.e. use the Private Message feature).

Thanks and have a nice day!

[Andy Bennett]

Did you mean more per capita?
I sort of know what he means.

The newspaper industry in britain is significantly diffrent from the US where local areas, (Counties, Cities, Towns, etc.), have their own newspaper. In Britain we DO have local papers but they tend to be delivered in the evening and carry mainly local news.

The paper most people will read will be their 'daily' paper which are national papers which are delivered by the 'newspaper boy'. These are The Sun, The Times, The Guardian, The Telegraph, The Daily Mirror, The Daily Mail, The Daily Express, The Independent and, er... well, that's pretty much about it. Those 7 newspapers probably account for 95% of all newspapers, (whose opinion carries any weight), in Britain.

They're back pages, (the sports pages), cover all sports including cricket and rugby but, by a massive extent, the predominent interest is in football - that's soccer to you guys:)

It's no exageration to say that, if Convey manages to be a significant factor in getting Reading into the EPL and then takes the EPL by storm, getting transferred to ManU, Arsenal or Chelsea the following year, probably, what... 70-75% of the population of the country over the age of 10 would be able to recognise him by sight within a year. And, NO, I'm not kidding.

If he helped ManU, whatever, win the CL and was a significant player in doing so you could translate those figures, (slightly dimished... say, 40-50%), across Europe.

I'm not suggesting this is going to happen. I'm saying that is the significance of football in Britain and the rest of the world.

[onefineesq]

Sorry revelation. It just annoyed me a bit, but I'm recovered. I will ignore any further posts of that type. anyway, i'm with funkfoot on this one. I hope that Convey wins a place over at Reading and pulls the team up by his bootstraps into the premiership. My only problem in the past with other posters is that I tend to believe we engage more in homerism than we do in actual trutful dialogue ......... and in my opinion, that has colored the debate on Convey. having said that, again, I want him to tear up England and push the players in front of him on the national team. If and when he is better, I would hope that he would win a starting spot. that time just isn't right now.

[StillKickin]

I'm not trolling here, and please don't take it that way. But I, for one, am a little sick of players running off to Europe citing the "I need more of a challenge" card. With Bobby's play here in MLS, I'd say he didn't exactly live up to the first challenge. Perhaps if he'd say, or the writers would say, he needed a different challenge in order to lift his game (because it obviously was not being lifted), then it wouldn't make me as angry. But to say "I need a challenge" is ludicrous. You had a challenge - winning an MLS cup, winning an Open Cup, winning MVP of the league, winning MVP of your team...the list goes on and on. And you pretty much failed in all of those challenges.

Say what you want about Donovan going or not going to Europe, living up to that challenge or not living up to that challenge, but one thing you can't say is that he didn't take his play in MLS seriously, that he didn't see it as a challenge, and he lived up to it. He's pretty much conquered MLS (more so than any of the other players going to Europe in search of that ever-ellusive challenge), and yet you won't see him putting MLS down, that it's not worthy of him, it doesn't present enough challenges. In fact, in a lot of interviews I've read by him, he remarks that playing in MLS is hard and that it is a challenge for him. And I dare say that when he goes to Europe, you won't find any insinuating comments by him about the league; instead, you'll find a legacy of hard work, team leadership, championships and a real tribute to MLS.

Now, maybe I'm misreading Bobby's comments and comments written about him. Maybe he knows he really didn't even begin to fulfill his potential here, that he didn't live up to the challenge of playing in MLS. I'm sure the excitement and atmosphere of Europe is what he was looking for - and he's obviously found it, and good for him. So then, just say that and leave the "I'm looking for a challenge" stuff out of it. Because you had a challenge here that you didn't accept and didn't live up to.