FSW's early assessment of Benitez...

[imasyko]

I just spotted this a few minutes ago...thoughts?

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2847256

[Wingtips1]

I will, again, go on record and say Benitez was a bad idea. The article hits it pretty well on the head. We haven't shown any passion, save for one or two individuals. And while we do have talent, we don't have a team. The dressing room will be divided and we will end up looking like the Chelsea of the late '90s, a bunch of foreigners with the talent that allows them to beat the lesser teams, but will not pose a serious threat to the top teams. We aren't in danger of having Newcastle passing us this season, but rather face pressure from Birmingham, Villa, Charlton and Tottenham. Please, bring O'Neill, O'Leary or Curbishley to Anfield.

[UVALaw]

I read that article and thought "what the ********** is this guy talking about?" First, he said Liverpool should consider Glenn Hoddle, which automatically made me think he had been smoking crack when he wrote the article. The article says that Glen Hoddle, Terry Venables and Sam Allardyce "have proved that they can effectively blend foreign players with homegrown talent." All they have proved is that they can drive 2 decent clubs (Tottenham and Leeds) further into the clutches of mediocrity. Neither Venables nor Hoddle did anything noteworthy as club managers. Allardyce has done a pretty good job at Bolton but that doesn't mean he is the answer. His task at that club has been to keep them promoted, not win the EPL or Champs League. Finally, I think 5 competitive matches into the season (with 2 wins, 2 losses, and a draw) is a little early to say that Benitez isn't up to the task.

While it is true that Arsenal and, even more so, Chelsea have new players Liverpool have 2 forwards who have played together for about 8 matches, 2 new midfielders, and Kewell, who has not exactly shown a willingness to bleed for the jersey. Additionally, the players are trying to learn a new playing style so it stands to reason that it might take them a while to gel. Arsenal lost several fringe players (Kanu, Parlour, Wiltord) from last years team. While Viera is out, Henry, Bergkamp, Pires, and others have played together in the same team for several years. Chelsea have new players and maximum points from their matches, but they haven't exactly set the world on fire with their playing style. The article points out that Liverpool are 8 points off of Arsenal/Chelsea but fails to note that we have a game in hand (and says nothing about ManU, who were picked ahead of Liverpool, taking 5 points out of 12).

I say give the team and Benitez a little time to play. The new players look good and we are 3 matches into the season. I'll reserve judgment until we have played a few more league and Champs League matches. Oh, and as far as having an "English manager who understands the English mentality" both teams leading the league have foreign managers.

[kopiteinkc]

I just spotted this a few minutes ago...thoughts?

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2847256

Nick Webster is an idiot and has no clue what he is talking about.

Hoddle at Anfield :rolleyes:

Let's give the new manager more than 3 league matches before sharpening the knives shall we.

[augie]

I agree that it's much too soon to write off any aspect of this team.

Give the lads time to learn each other's names, let alone how to play together.

Despite how horrible it looked at times on Sunday there were also glimpses of brilliance.

Maybe those will never be the norm, but who can really say for certain at this point?

[Matt Clark]

I will, again, go on record and say Benitez was a bad idea. The article hits it pretty well on the head. We haven't shown any passion, save for one or two individuals.
I would like you to substantiate that view.



And while we do have talent, we don't have a team.
Were you around in May 1992?


The dressing room will be divided and we will end up looking like the Chelsea of the late '90s, a bunch of foreigners with the talent that allows them to beat the lesser teams, but will not pose a serious threat to the top teams.
A weird comparison, given that Chelsea's inherant weakness was the ability to beat the top teams whilst being congenitallly incapable of beating the Bradfords of this world. As to a divided dressing room, there is no indication that this is likely. If anything, Benitez, through his sale of Owen and Murphy, has proven himself more than capable of spotting and then destroying any such pernicious influence.

We aren't in danger of having Newcastle passing us this season, but rather face pressure from Birmingham, Villa, Charlton and Tottenham. Please, bring O'Neill, O'Leary or Curbishley to Anfield.
We are in danger of suffering from knee-jerk reactions to as yet definable problems. Above and beyond which, we are in danger of being suckered by the infantile belief that any of the managers you have mentioned measure up to the man who has twice won the toughest league in the world.

[usscouse]

NICK WEBSTER...!!! This is the FSWD North London Idiot. His moronic and almost incomprehensible ramblings about the game of football are legend.

[AwayKit]

I share the disappointment in losing Murphy, not sure we could have done much about Owen leaving.

[Iberian]

Calm down. My view as a Spaniard is not completely impartial, but Benitez is really a great coach. You can't judge him so soon. He is one of the rare few (I can only see Bianchi in Argentina), who has made himself known to take a team of scraps and make it work. He did in Tenerife, and did the same at Valencia. For 3 years he won titles playing without strikers, only midfield (the few useless ones he had were either too young or in the bench), and it did not matter. For 3 years Valencia refused to get him new players at all, and it did not matter. They even refused to get him strikers, and he still won the league and the UEFA Cup, and several other titles. You look at Valencia now and Rainieri has not done anything new, he has kept the same system and the same block, simply because they have a system that they play by memory, relentlessly no matter who the oponent is and who's on the field.
Liverpool is different, it has a good midfield and a great offense by comparison, but Benitez has to start by not having the same stability in the back that he had in his previous teams, so building up the play, his system, and the midfield will have shortcomings until everything is in place and Liverpool can reach the same level he gives his teams. He will do it though, and probably sooner than you think. When Liverpool gets to that point you will have guaranteed results, and a style of play that wil make a difference and will last very long.
About those who said that he can't blend young and old, stars and new players...he was the coach of the youth teams of Real Madrid, and he's had plenty of stars and young players to mix and match before. You just have to work in the back and in the defensive midfield (smart move by getting Xavi), and the rest will come by itself. If the back was strong enough (even though we should agree that it cannot be nowhere as strong as Valencia's, their strong point), Liverpool would have more time to get to where Benitez wants to take it, but Liverpool is not Valencia. Benitez's problem is also one of glamour, he doesn't have much of it and this is so true that he left Valencia tired of achieving and their directors not considering him enough (which is really why people are jumping on him now after 4 games while undergoing such a huge renovation). Don't panic, you are coming back to where you should be, and Benitez is going to make it happen.

[SuperElf]

Calm down. My view as a Spaniard is not completely impartial, but Benitez is really a great coach. You can't judge him so soon. He is one of the rare few (I can only see Bianchi in Argentina), who has made himself known to take a team of scraps and make it work. . . .
Liverpool is different, it has a good midfield and a great offense by comparison, but Benitez has to start by not having the same stability in the back that he had in his previous teams, so building up the play, his system, and the midfield will have shortcomings until everything is in place and Liverpool can reach the same level he gives his teams. He will do it though, and probably sooner than you think. When Liverpool gets to that point you will have guaranteed results, and a style of play that wil make a difference and will last very long. . . .
Liverpool would have more time to get to where Benitez wants to take it, but Liverpool is not Valencia. Benitez's problem is also one of glamour, he doesn't have much of it and this is so true that he left Valencia tired of achieving and their directors not considering him enough (which is really why people are jumping on him now after 4 games while undergoing such a huge renovation). Don't panic, you are coming back to where you should be, and Benitez is going to make it happen.Whoa. That's our second calm, rational post for today from a supporter of another club. Thank you! (But I still hope Mr. Owen comes down with a season long case of diarrhea.)

SuperElf's early assessment of Nick Webster: know-nothing twat. I wouldn't let Glen Hoddle manage what I'm having for dinner, let alone my football club. Yes, we need time to gel. Yes, Arsenal and Chelsea are getting away from us. What's the big news-flash here? Anyone who actually thought we would win the league this year, please identify yourself so I may add you to the list of people to remove from my kitchen at supper time.

[zpjohnstone]

If you can't write a good article, just dazzle them with alliteration.

Really, couldn't he have waited until at least 10% of the season had passed before casting judgement. Vapid stuff . . . . .

[Iberian]

Whoa. That's our second calm, rational post for today from a supporter of another club. Thank you! (But I still hope Mr. Owen comes down with a season long case of diarrhea.)....

Yeah, I wonder though why somebody has given me bad credit for it. I apologize if I bothered anyone by praising Liverpool and giving you hopes. He must be an MU fan or something...

Owen is so far a lucky guy, he is catching Raul in bad shape, Raul gets injured in 20 minutes, he comes out to play the rest of the game and does quite well in a match that was terribly slow and boring. He is a great player, but the season is long, Raul will come back and so will Morientes, and I am willing to bet that he is in for a very rough year. He showed a great deal of quality yesterday though in a few minutes, but I don't think Benitez really believed that he was going to miss him much. As I said, he is used to playing with what's his got, and one thing he is used to lacking is strikers. It everything turns out well, Owen will just be a memory in a few months. Benitez is not a guy who needs star players to get results. Besides not having strikers, look at what he did last year with Aimar in the bench or injured the whole time. He should be quite happy with Cisse and Baros. He probably wishes he would have had them at Valencia. There was something else being said about lack of passion...Benitez said right when he got to Liverpool that he could never have imagined that a club could be so well managed, so well structured and that everything could be done so well and so rationally. He couldn't even believe that the coach could have such a gorgeous office and setup and be truly respected in ways that in Spain are really kind of unusual. He is in love with the club, just like Xavi for what he has said so far, and I know that they will fight and go great lenghts to stay. You'll be surprised how much loyalty and "passion" Spaniards can show when they are comfortable, if they are quality (I don't consider Mendieta and Ivan Campo real quality), look at Reyes and Cesc on the other side. Benitez, Xavi and Luis Garcia are of that type. Right now, in spite of a bad start, you still have the better cards. Have patiente.

[ScouseCat]

I just spotted this a few minutes ago...thoughts?

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2847256
Talk about being quick to pass judgement! Benitez, (like everyone) will be judged on his results. So far, we've qualified for the Champions League which was our first aim this season. We've had 3 games in the Premier League for 4 points so far, (still early days) and with new players still finding their feet, I wouldn't be hitting the panic button just yet. But hey, some journos get paid good money to write trash, and this is another fine example.

[Matt Clark]

I've actually read the article now. Who is this Nick Webster guy and when did the mentally retarded start getting employed by FSW?

[RandyNA74]

It is crazy how some people get away with being professional footie writers. I really think/hope you guys will be ok once Benitez gets settled in. Just think about this: when Sacchi first took over Milan in 1987, the results were absolutely disastrous until...Milan got their act together and went on to dominate Europe. Of course there are numerous differences between the 2 sides, so it is just an example that even teams with great players/potential need time to gel and become a "team."

[Bjornebye]

I've actually read the article now. Who is this Nick Webster guy and when did the mentally retarded start getting employed by FSW?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1815000/images/_1817665_murdoch_fox_300.jpg

"Wha?"

Stig

[Wingtips1]

The team Benitez had in Spain was a completely settled team. He had the opportunity to buy one or two players, but never actually develop a squad. The team he operated was virtually the same Ranieri, and later, Cuper had. They laid the ground work and Benitez rode off their coattails. But remember, he managed Tenerife before that. Valencia took a chance with him. We should have been similarly bold and not gone for the flavor of the month.

[Twenty26Six]

The team Benitez had in Spain was a completely settled team. He had the opportunity to buy one or two players, but never actually develop a squad. The team he operated was virtually the same Ranieri, and later, Cuper had.

That coudn't be farther from the truth.

Can't anyone just shut up and watch the ********ing team play for once? If all you people know so GD much about football, go coach a professional team.

[Matt Clark]

The team Benitez had in Spain was a completely settled team.
What? Within seconds of his arrival they lost Mendieta, at the time their talismanic captain and arguably the most effective player in La Liga. They had also shed Claudio Lopez, Kily Gonzales, Djukic and Ilie. In addition, Pablo Aimar had only just joined when Benitez took over in 2001 and had yet to be fully integrated into team or system but went on to become a total replacement for Mendieta.

Benitez added Francisco Rufete, he added Curro Torres and he alone is responsible for turning Mista into the player he is today.



He had the opportunity to buy one or two players, but never actually develop a squad.
How is that relevant? All successful managers take what is already there and add to it. Name a manager who has come in and started from scratch before going on to deliver the major prizes on a consistent basis? And more importantly Benitez does not have to anything more than that at Liverpool either. He's taking a talented squad and adding to it with more quality. He's not building from scratch.




The team he operated was virtually the same Ranieri, and later, Cuper had.

2001 European Cup final, Valencia v Bayern:

Santiago Cañizares, Jocelyn Angloma, Roberto Ayala (Miroslav Djukic 90), Mauricio Pellegrino, Amedeo Carboni, Rubén Baraja, Gaizka Mendieta, Kily González, Juan Sánchez (Zlatko Zahovic 66), Pablo Aimar (David Albelda 46),
John Carew

2004 UEFA Cup Final, Valencia v Marseilles:

Santiago Canizares; Curro Torres, Roberto Ayala, Carlos Marchena , Amedeo Carboni; Francisco Rufete (Pablo Aimar 64), David Albelda, Ruben Baraja, Vicente; Miguel Angel Angulo (Mohamed Sissoko 82), Mista.

Ranieri?! He left Valencia in 1998, a full three years before Benitez arrived. His team had more or less nothing to do with the one that Bentiez took over. He is utterly irrelevant to this debate. Except let's see what he does now that HE'S riding on a successful manager's coattails and is managing a Championship-winning squad.


They laid the ground work and Benitez rode off their coattails.
Please. For one thing, you're forgetting the minor detail that he actually WON TROPHIES with Valencia. He actually delivered where his predecessors came close but not close enough. He has won the hardest league in the world, twivce, in three years at the helm and he did it with a steady evolution of the team he inherited into the team he built.



But remember, he managed Tenerife before that. Valencia took a chance with him. We should have been similarly bold and not gone for the flavor of the month.
Similarly bold? What - by appointing Harry Redknapp (the equivalent of employing the Tenerife manager)? I thought you said you wanted O'Leary, O'Neill or Curbishley (but not, God forbid, the "flavour of the month" :rolleyes: ). You couldn't be more staid and unoriginal with any of those choices. Bringing a man like Benitez in - now THAT is bold and decisive talent acquisition.

Seriously now ... what's with this apparently motiveless need to rubbish our manager after a matter of weeks in the job? I don't get it. And I don't think anyone else around here does either.

[Wingtips1]

I will end this. I am not happy with the appointment. I want us to do well, just don't think it will happen with RB. If it does, I will be forced to eat my words.