Anti-Saha

[loublaze]

A few good performances from Smith and everyone is now talking about how good he is and how he should partner Ruud. So suddenly Saha is crap? Mind you this is Saha's first full season and now we can really see what he's about. Does Smith have a better goals scoring record than Saha? Is he faster? More agile and athletic? I'm not taking anything away from Smith but I don't think he's a better goalgetter than Saha is and we'll see for ourselves on the pitch. Very good for competitions' sake though. One more thing, without going into racial issues why is it that black players get a lot of slack by United fans? Andy Cole scored an amazing amount of goals for us and is not considered a legend while Ole is, Fortune is labelled useless when Fletcher is worse and Bellion and Djemba-Djemba are not considered united material.

[Achtung]

Everyone's got a different opinion on here. I don't think people are saying that Saha is crap, but obviously he's got some competition now from Smith after the way he's played, and SAF does have a decision to make once Saha comes back. As for guys like Fletcher, Bellion, Dj2, Miller, and Fortune, they can be hard to gauge because for now they are squad guys, don't get to play every week, and can be inconsistent as a result. I remember two specific times last season when Bellion looked very smooth--the preseason game against Celtic, and the match at OT against Spurs when he came on late and scored a very nice goal. Meanwhile, he looked like total crap in the preseason and the Community Shield. We're all a bit guilty of having short memories. But I hardly think there is any racial issue--Rio is thought of as maybe our most important player right now, Silvestre is a quality CB, and Tim Howard is fairly well set as our keeper.

Also I don't know which United fans you talk to but Andy Cole is considered a great player in Manchester United history. A few people won't put him up there, but that's probably because he was never really considered for England (who were then managed by Keegan and Hoddle of course) and because of his somewhat acrimonious departure from the club, after being overtaken by Ruud as our top striker. Still he was creative, productive, and one of the top players during probably the best three-year run this club has had.

[johno]

You raise some valid points but I dont think its quite as bad as u make it out to be, but I understand your point of view. I think the thing with Saha is more complex... because of Smith's style some people feel he might be better suited to play as a partner to a target man than Saha who has many of the same qualities of a target man as well.

I think that both players could make good foils for Ruud but doing different things... for instance.. in a game played by a team who is unwilling to attack might need to be finessed, with Ruud playing in the box, but with Smith moving like a satelite around Ruud a suffocating midfield could be brokend down by Scholes with Smith as a moving target we might have a better chance at unlocking the defence... however against teams that play enterprising attacking football having 2 players who can both take down long balls and hold off defenders in one and one situations... which are more likely to happen then... that does not sum it up completely but its basically different players for different situations... the same reason we had 4 strikers in 99 few were exactly alike and they all had their purposes... who knows, even crappy Bellion might serve a purpose even if his first touch remains to be crap... if we use his speed properly it will create problems for defences because he can beat the trap and of course he is not a top option but he is there and thats all that counts.. I think everyone in the squad has a role to play. The great thing about SAF is that even though the squad selection is a bit strange at times... he is sure to make the best use of his players.

[United Forever]

I hate Saha! :mad: . But seriously, I think Smith would compliment Ruud better. Smith is the guy in the Hughes mold . Always working and Ruud can feed off of that pretty well!

[billyireland]

I prefer Smith next to Ruud over Saha because:

1. He is not as selfish - both Saha & Ruud are - two selfish players rarely work well together.

2. He seems more committed than Saha, who seems to want to raise his international profile more than anything else.

3. He has not made stupid comments, which Saha has.

4. He contributes more to play around the rest of the field thna Saha.

5. He is more fiery & has more leadership than Saha - somethign needed as Keane is starting to fade away.

6. Saha is more explosive and seems better at scoring, which will be very important coming off the bench.

[Acronym]

Ah fck it play all three lol.

[United Forever]

Ah fck it play all three lol.

What formation we will play then . Please tell me!

[loublaze]

What formation we will play then . Please tell me!

It's possible to play 4-3-3

[BillyManutd]

What formation we will play then . Please tell me!

United played 4-3-3 at the end of the 2002-2003 season when Becham fell out of favor, but I doubt we will use this formation (unless late in games when we need a goal) because it will leave the defense exposed as Keane no longer can cover as much territory in midfield and we don't have someone to back-up the strikers if we use Saha, Ruud, and Smith at the same time.

I think we will play a 2 striker formation. Saha or Smith will partner van Nistelrooy depending on the opposing team's style of play and type of competition.

[billyireland]

It's possible to play 4-3-3
But who would plug in where?

----------------Howard--------------
Neville---Ferdinand--Silvestre---Heinze
Ronaldo---------Keane----------Giggs
------Smith------RvN------Saha------

Not only would we have no quality strikers on the bench (actually, we would only have Bellion), as well as Keane left to keep the oppositions midfield at bay on his own (realistically)... but is something mssing there? No? Look closer.

[United Forever]

Yeah I know that we can play 4-3-3 but when Rio is back and Keano does not have to play there anymore, which mid is going to be dropped? I mean we have Scholes , Giggs, Ronaldo , Keane etc.

[United Forever]

----------------Howard--------------
Neville---Ferdinand--Silvestre---Heinze
Ronaldo---------Keane----------Giggs
------Smith------RvN------Saha------

.

No ! Are you mad. A starting line up with out the Ginger Prince Paul Scholes! :eek:

[loublaze]

I prefer Smith next to Ruud over Saha because:

1. He is not as selfish - both Saha & Ruud are - two selfish players rarely work well together.

2. He seems more committed than Saha, who seems to want to raise his international profile more than anything else.

3. He has not made stupid comments, which Saha has.

4. He contributes more to play around the rest of the field thna Saha.

5. He is more fiery & has more leadership than Saha - somethign needed as Keane is starting to fade away.

6. Saha is more explosive and seems better at scoring, which will be very important coming off the bench.

Response to your points

1. Saha is not as selfish as you say he is. Ruud is a goal hanger and is naturally more selfish. Saha actually creates chances for others and if you've really seen him play or asked Fulham fans they'll back me on this

2. Who gives a damn why he wants to play as long as he gives it his all? Most utd fans called Smith a badge kisser and some still don't trust him as they know deep down inside he's still Leeds and would've stayed had they survived the drop

3. Don't believe the tabliods. It's thier job to twist comments the best they can. You might as well believe pigs can fly

4. Similar to (1.) above. Saha tracks back and it's not unsual to see him make tackles in the back. Saha takes free kicks and can actually score from outside the eighteen and like Smith, is also good with his head

5. When ever did ferociousness/ fiery guarantee good leadership? Nothing wrong with it but it also depends on the maturity of the player. One of Smiths biggest worries is his poor disciplinary record and bad temper. He's not ready for this yet. Saha looks more composed when under fire and rarely retiarates but you can't doubt his commitment whenever he plays

6. Only positive thing you said so I can't argue. But any way whoever plays I wish them the best as we try to get our title back

[billyireland]

...we try to get our title back...Well, there is a lot there that I can pretty much see we will not reach common ground on, but at least we are both users of the best phrase of all (footballing) time!

[loublaze]

Well, there is a lot there that I can pretty much see we will not reach common ground on, but at least we are both users of the best phrase of all (footballing) time!

Billy what you doing up this late? No work tommorow?

[billyireland]

Billy what you doing up this late? No work tommorow?
'Fraid not. Nothing to get up for at all, all my mates are off in Santa ponsa (sp?) on their Leaving Cert/graduation part. Some of them (myself included) have another year to go, but I was the only one (actually there is 1 other guy, but he is in Cork for the weekend) who didn't go - couldn't get a job this summer (didn't look too hard, tbh), so it was out of my financial reach. Oh well, it just means that next year will be better.

[Dark Savante]

A few good performances from Smith and everyone is now talking about how good he is and how he should partner Ruud. So suddenly Saha is crap?

Wonder where this came from....


Mind you this is Saha's first full season and now we can really see what he's about. Does Smith have a better goals scoring record than Saha? Is he faster? More agile and athletic? I'm not taking anything away from Smith but I don't think he's a better goalgetter than Saha is and we'll see for ourselves on the pitch. Very good for competitions' sake though.

Smith adds far more to the team then just goal scoring, he looks like he's been at OT for years and is linking with the midfield quite effortlessly especially Scholes. He holds up play and brings team mates into the frame and he can also calm play as people know he is an outlet who will have the ball stick and rarely makes a bad pass. None of that is Saha's game and as such Saha imo needs a superfluous midfield to really show what he can do and in tough times where the team is trying to find its feet he's not going to get that.

In an out and out goal scoring race Saha would win because he plays more on the shoulder of the last man as his natural game and is in more position to score then smith who is often to deep for that. But, there are only two places up front and Saha in an ideal world would be a good partner for Smith, but he is not about to displace Ruud so he is left in a quandry. Smith - Ruud sounds alot more logical to me than Saha - Ruud.


One more thing, without going into racial issues why is it that black players get a lot of slack by United fans? Andy Cole scored an amazing amount of goals for us and is not considered a legend while Ole is, Fortune is labelled useless when Fletcher is worse and Bellion and Djemba-Djemba are not considered united material.
Your post skilfully decides to omit black players who were loved at OT.

Viv Anderson
McGrath
Parker
Ince
Yorke
Cole
Rio

In recent times. Maybe you should consider the fact that the players you decided to list have been erratic at best in a United shirt and are pilored for it in the same way any other player would be.

Howard - makes mistakes, but they are tolerated because he is young and new to the league and he has the potential to be a good keeper once he irons out some of the weaknesses in his game...his race has never been an issue.

Silvestre - is erratic. Tweety makes a ton of mistakes that leave the team in danger he is rightly pulled up on it. When he is at his best he is applauded with the same conviction as a Keane or a Ruud would get.

Brown - absolutely loved in Manchester. Everyone (including myself) expect big things from him once he gets a proper run in the team. Even those on here who criticsie him do so because of what has happened on the pitch, - especially when he rushed back t early last year, which was due to a dire situation - not because of his skin's hue.

Djemba - is getting hardly any stick.and certainly not enough to suggest anything slightly racial

Bellion - is erratic and very frustrating to watch.

Fortune - is poor...as is P Neville...they get the same amount of stick.

Saha - is of questionable attitude and ego and he gets called up on it especially when someone comes to OT and shines like Smith is doing. No proper verdict has been made about Saha football wise, but he has a way to go to impress the fans as much as Smith has.

P.S. Andy Cole often got stick for the amount of chances he would miss but at the same time he was an OT legend with a few terrace songs of his own. You don't get songs made for u unless you are really poor or really good.

P.P.S Ole is held in such high regard because he is such a superb servant for Man U. This guy has sat on the bench for more than half his Man U career and not once has he complained!! That is awesome and there are not many strikers of his quality who woud be prepared to do that. Throw in supersub status and him winning us the CL and you have a M.U legend.

[Acronym]

Is howard black? wtf

[United Forever]

Is howard black? wtf

Does this have to do anything about FOOTBALL Acronym! :confused:

[Acronym]

Im just curious why dark savante thinks he is black. Read the above post. Unless im confused lol. :/