Paris FC questions

[SportBoy333]

I need these answered please.

1. What were the exact years that they were in the top flight ?

2. When they were in the top flight what was the name of their stadium, how many did it seat and what was their average attendence while they were in the top flight ?

3. I noticed that they were formed the same year that PSG was formed(1970) so I'm wondering if that was a coincidence or was their a connection between the 2 clubs somehow ? I know that 2 clubs merged to form PSG and one of those clubs was FC Paris so I was wondering if FC Paris and Paris FC had a connection. I'm assuming that once FC Paris disolved into PSG then Paris FC was then created as a new club but I dont know if this is correct.

4. Since Paris FC have no offical website or any good fansites how are they ever going to get to the 1st divsion again with such poor fan support. How are they still able to survive ?

[iougs]

yeah, Paris FC and PSG are linked.

It's very complicated.

Maybe this link will help you:

http://psg70.ifrance.com/psg70/historique.htm
http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/PSG_Histoire.html

I am gonna try to find the actual answers to your question later.

iougs-

[SportBoy333]

but FC Paris and Paris FC are 2 different clubs aren't they ???

[iougs]

ok, from:
http://www.rsssf.com/players/trainers-fran-clubs.html

This gives you the divisions and the coaches for Paris FC.
Good find, heh.
It gives you the stadium too (note: in D1, they must have played somewhere else, maybe Parc des Princes ... dunno)

Paris FC

[1969; Stade Dejérine (Porte de Montreuil)]

1972-74 D1
1974-78 D2
1978-79 D1
1979-82 D2
1982-83 with Racing [Matra Racing Club de Paris]

1971-73 Louis Hon
1973-76 Antoine Dalla Cieca
1976-79 Robert Vicot
1979-81 Roger Lemerre
1981-82 Roger Lemerre
Alberto Muro ARG

1983-84 Luc Rabat
1984-87 ?
1987-92 Pierre Lechantre
1992-93 Hubert Velud
Delio Onnis ARG
1993-94 Delio Onnis ARG
1994-95 Delio Onnis ARG
Hubert Velud
1995-98 Hubert Velud
1998-99 Hubert Velud
Jean-François Charbonnier
1999-00 Jean-Pierre Carayon
Robert Buigues (11.99)
2000-* Robert Buigues

iougs-

[SportBoy333]

ok, from:
http://www.rsssf.com/players/trainers-fran-clubs.html

This gives you the divisions and the coaches for Paris FC.
Good find, heh.
It gives you the stadium too (note: in D1, they must have played somewhere else, maybe Parc des Princes ... dunno)

Paris FC

[1969; Stade Dejérine (Porte de Montreuil)]

1972-74 D1
1974-78 D2
1978-79 D1
1979-82 D2
1982-83 with Racing [Matra Racing Club de Paris]

1971-73 Louis Hon
1973-76 Antoine Dalla Cieca
1976-79 Robert Vicot
1979-81 Roger Lemerre
1981-82 Roger Lemerre
Alberto Muro ARG

1983-84 Luc Rabat
1984-87 ?
1987-92 Pierre Lechantre
1992-93 Hubert Velud
Delio Onnis ARG
1993-94 Delio Onnis ARG
1994-95 Delio Onnis ARG
Hubert Velud
1995-98 Hubert Velud
1998-99 Hubert Velud
Jean-François Charbonnier
1999-00 Jean-Pierre Carayon
Robert Buigues (11.99)
2000-* Robert Buigues

iougs-

If they were created in 1970 how did they get to the 1st division in 2 years ??? I still dont know if they were created because FC Paris desolved into PSG.

[iougs]

From what I understand, Paris FC is born in 72-73 when the old PSG from 1970 is split: one stays in D1 (Paris FC), the other one goes down in D3 (the new PSG). In reality, the new PSG ends up in D2 because of a technicality.

There's confusion because of the 1970 birthdate for PSG.

About the stadium, PSG was playing the CAmp des loges or stade Jean Bouin, then they took over Parc des Princes when PFC went down to D2. This means PFC were playing Parc des Princes when in D1.

iougs-

[SportBoy333]

I saw a Paris FC logo and it said 1970 on it. I dont know about the old and new PSG's i thought their was only one. Damn this is confusing

[iougs]

1970 is kinda fishy ...
because of the subsequent split of 72-73.

It's a matter of interpretation.

iougs-

[iougs]

Le 30 mai 1970, le Paris-Saint-Germain-Football-Club est admis à disputer le championnat de France de Division 2. L'équipe est constituée en majeure partie par les joueurs du Stade Saint-Germain. L'encadrement est également de souche saint-germanoise. Haut niveau oblige, le nouveau club de la capitale cherche à se renforcer davantage et recrute notamment le capitaine de l'équipe de France, Jean Djorkaeff. Le 23 août 1970, le PSG joue le premier match officiel de son histoire à Poitiers (1-1). Les Parisiens sont ensuite sacrés champions de France de Division 2 et accèdent à la D1. Pour sa première saison parmi l'élite, l'équipe se maintient mais termine à une modeste seizième place.


This is from l'equipe article I gave link above. I'll give a quick translation.
The PSG of 1970 is ok'd to play in D2. Most player are from St Germain team. They got top player like Djorkaeff. First season, they play D2 and they win the whole thing and access D1. They play one season in D1 and then, boum, the split that gives birth to Paris FC and "new" PSG occur.

iougs-

[iougs]

A ce moment-là, commence une autre bataille en coulisses. En mai 1972, le Conseil de Paris demande aux dirigeants de donner un nom plus "parisien" à l'équipe en échange du paiement d'une subvention municipale de 800 000 francs. Devant le refus des Saint-Germanois, la branche parisienne annonce sa sécession. Prestige oblige, il est alors décidé que le Paris-Football-Club reparte en D1. Le PSG doit démarrer la saison 1972-73 en D3. Cette séparation met en avant un litige qui oppose encore aujourd'hui quelques "aficionados" et historiens du foot. Pour certains, le PSG a vu le jour en 1970. Pour d'autres, c'est bien après ce divorce que l'équipe actuelle est née. Quelques-uns n'hésitent pas aussi à affirmer que le club existe depuis 1904, date de naissance du Stade Saint-Germanois !


This explains the 72-73 split. Quick translation follows. Some kind of politics shenanhigan causes the split. PFC is in D1. PSG must start 72-73 season in D3. For some pple, PSG started in 1970. For others, it started later. Some say PSG started in 1904 with the birth of the St GErmain team.

What's funny about this is that the "pure" Paris club (PFC) went down the drain pretty soon after but the St Germain squad (the new PSG) got the success and ended up playing in Parc des Princes. Ironic !

iougs-

[iougs]

I told you it was very complicated ... LOL.

iougs-

[iougs]

I saw a Paris FC logo and it said 1970 on it.


yes, that's correct. Paris FC was born in 1970 but not as Paris FC. It was known as Paris St Germain Football Club (the "old" PSG). When the split was made in 72-73, it got its current name Paris FC but retained its original birth date, which is right or wrong depending whom you talk to.

iougs-

[SportBoy333]

What's funny about this is that the "pure" Paris club (PFC) went down the drain pretty soon after but the St Germain squad (the new PSG) got the success and ended up playing in Parc des Princes. Ironic !

iougs-

Yeah but why did this happen ? Paris FC had the early advantage to capitalize on since they started in division 1 and PSG in division 3. Why did the fans all flock to PSG and not Paris FC

[iougs]

Yeah but why did this happen ? Paris FC had the early advantage to capitalize on since they started in division 1 and PSG in division 3. Why did the fans all flock to PSG and not Paris FC


They started in D2 because some other club turned down D2.

Probably, because of Daniel Hechter who brought tons of money into the club.
They also got good results in French Cup that first year.

An interesting question is why Hechter got into PSG and not PFC. I'll look into that.

iougs-

[SportBoy333]

I thought that the reason PSG was created was because RC Paris and Red Star were really struggling and there was no Paris team in the top flight for a while so their was a huge vacuum to be filled. However I see that Red Star was indeed in the top flight from '67-73 so why was PSG created then and also Paris FC for that matter

[iougs]

I thought that the reason PSG was created was because RC Paris and Red Star were really struggling and there was no Paris team in the top flight for a while so their was a huge vacuum to be filled. However I see that Red Star was indeed in the top flight from '67-73 so why was PSG created then and also Paris FC for that matter


Those are good questions. Why do you care so much about this ? You want to buy PFC or Red Star and bring them to their former glory. If I had the dough, I would do it.

If you are investor, what do you do if you want to build a successful team in Paris. You try to deal with a team that's already in D1 for a quick return.

Well, the only one in D1 was Red Star at that time (as you say), so whoever was interested in trying to create a mega team in Paris must have tried to make a deal with Red Star to get to the D1 directly.

I can only guess that the Red Star managers of the time did not approve of the idea of being overturned, and rejected the deals that came their way.

This story might appear in the Red Star site. I would have to look into it.

iougs-

[iougs]

Ok, I am giving a link for Red Star history:

http://www.allezredstar.com/fr_arch.php

It s basically a bunch of journal articles that have been published over the years. Lots to read.

http://www.allezredstar.com/fr_viem.htm
article written in 1970

A few interesting things from that article:
- in 66-67, they merge with Toulouse !!!
- the record for most ppl in stadium is 23,000 in 1935
- they say they need 10,000 ppl per match to make it (they are below that)
- lots of financial trouble
I thought they would say something about PSG but zip.

http://www.allezredstar.com/fr_stad.htm
article from 98

Says that Red Star was given the opportunity to play at Stade de France after PSG turned it down. Denied for poor finances right after a scandal erupted involving the president. So, it shows that Red Star was pretty close to be the permanent club at Stade de France.

http://www.allezredstar.com/fr_md.htm

this one has nothing to do with anything but I know this guy, Marcel Dantheny. He was the goalie at my hometown club, CAMV (Mantes la Ville) for a few seasons when in D2.

http://www.allezredstar.com/archives/fr_malp1.htm
in 2001
http://www.allezredstar.com/archives/fr_dias1.htm
in 2003

This explains what happened to Parisian football and red star, in particular.

http://www.allezredstar.com/archives/fr_lepa4.htm
article in 2004

Here, you will learn that Luis Fernandez had invested in the club and was now backing out.

Well,
It goes on and on. If you're interested in Parisian football, that's pretty interesting.

iougs-

[SportBoy333]

I cant figure out why Red Star merged with Toulouse. What the heck was that all about ???