Expansion Rules

[B Kaiser]

Here's a helpful link for all with questions:

http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20040714&content_id=8259&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

[bordelais7]

Have any of the other teams' fans started forming lists of who they will protect, or is it too early?

[Auxodium]

they have drafts in the AFL here in Australia and it is a tad complicated but does work. I understand the existing MLS sides protecting their SI's. in 1999 the NSL in Australia Parramatta Power took 90% of the Sydney United Roster including their coach and coaching staff!

but i hate the SI's rule in the MLS

[Stilger]

they have drafts in the AFL here in Australia and it is a tad complicated but does work. I understand the existing MLS sides protecting their SI's. in 1999 the NSL in Australia Parramatta Power took 90% of the Sydney United Roster including their coach and coaching staff!

but i hate the SI's rule in the MLS

What's to hate about it? It makes sure teams are made up mostly of Americans. I would like to see it increased to 4 but that's a small thing.

[Zman Gunner]

Have any of the other teams' fans started forming lists of who they will protect, or is it too early?

http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2839905&postcount=1

Check out this post for a full list of each team's potential protected/unprotected list. There are still some issues which need to be defined by MLS (i.e. when P-40 players graduate on to their team's senior roster) but these lists give a reasonable view as to which players will (and will not) be available for Salt Lake and Chivas, especially since player age and salaries are important considerations in the expansion teams' drafts (i.e. the 10 MLS teams would love to unload some old, high-priced, underperforming players in this draft to clear salary cap space).

[soccerfan]

my only question is if there is a difference between a roster player and a senior roster player as stated in those rules, and if there is a difference then what makes a player to be "senior" who are they ? ...more qurstions relate to the other players on the roster like P-40, Discovery,Transitional, etc do they count as part of the senior roster or not ?

[kenntomasch]

Have any of the other teams' fans started forming lists of who they will protect, or is it too early?

Pffffft. They were doing that within minutes of the announcement. ;)

Trust me - teams are already thinking about it, too. They're waiting for interpretation of who they must protect and don't have to.

[Zman Gunner]

my only question is if there is a difference between a roster player and a senior roster player as stated in those rules, and if there is a difference then what makes a player to be "senior" who are they ? ...more qurstions relate to the other players on the roster like P-40, Discovery,Transitional, etc do they count as part of the senior roster or not ?

If you go by today's roster definitions, you have 24 total players comprised of:

* 18 Senior players (includes Senior Internationals, Transitional Internationals not signed to developmental contracts which translates to the vast majority of TI's)

* 6 P-40/Developmental players (there are a few Transitional Internationals who are signed to developmental contracts - Flores - MetroStars, Brillant- NE, Kuffour - DC)

Discovery players are noted becuase teams are limited as to how many discovery players to which they are entitled to tell MLS to sign for them. It should not matter whether a player is a discovery player or not in terms of the expansion draft.

The biggest question that I can see regarding the rosters at the time of the expansion draft is if there will be P-4o player graduation to senior rosters by that time (i.e. Gaven - MetroStars, Eskandarian - DC).

[soccerfan]

If you go by today's roster definitions, you have 24 total players comprised of:

* 18 Senior players (includes Senior Internationals, Transitional Internationals not signed to developmental contracts which translates to the vast majority of TI's)

* 6 P-40/Developmental players (there are a few Transitional Internationals who are signed to developmental contracts - Flores - MetroStars, Brillant- NE, Kuffour - DC)

Discovery players are noted becuase teams are limited as to how many discovery players to which they are entitled to tell MLS to sign for them. It should not matter whether a player is a discovery player or not in terms of the expansion draft.

The biggest question that I can see regarding the rosters at the time of the expansion draft is if there will be P-4o player graduation to senior rosters by that time (i.e. Gaven - MetroStars, Eskandarian - DC).

but also if the T-I contract is up by then, and any other players with contract ending, from 18 roster then some teams may only have eligible 4 - 6 players for the expansion draft if that many

Metros have 23 team roster, 6 fall in the Disc/P-40/Dev slot, leaving 17 players, protecting 12 only 5 left for the draft

[Zman Gunner]

but also if the T-I contract is up by then, and any other players with contract ending, from 18 roster then some teams may only have eligible 4 - 6 players for the expansion draft if that many

Metros have 23 team roster, 6 fall in the Disc/P-40/Dev slot, leaving 17 players, protecting 12 only 5 left for the draft

I believe that MLS contracts typically expire on December 31 (after November's expansion draft). There would be issues with loan players (Taylor - MetroStars, Saragosa - LA, Scott - Columbus) having to be signed/protected.

[kenntomasch]

I don't know how much I believe MLSNet...I'd have to cross check with each team first, but here's what they list as each player in each category, by team and by age, with MLS experience the last column.


Developmental Players (25)

CHI....Denny Clanton....D...04/04/1982....0
CHI....Matt Pickens....GK...04/05/1982....0
CHI....Ian Pilarski.....M...04/06/1982....0

COL....Byron Foss......GK...10/06/1979....0
COL....Jordan Cila......M...04/11/1982....0
COL....Gary Sullivan....D...06/24/1982....0
COL....Michael Erush....M...01/24/1983....0

CLB....Jake Traeger.....D...04/16/1980....1
CLB....Michael Ritch....F...04/26/1981....1
CLB....Jamal Sutton.....F...03/22/1982....0

DAL....Ty Maurin........M...08/16/1982....0

KCW....Taylor Graham....D...06/03/1980....1
KCW....Will Hesmer.....GK...11/23/1981....0
KCW....Jack Jewsbury....M...04/13/1981....1
KCW....Justin Detter....F...08/07/1982....0
KCW....Brian Roberts....D...08/28/1982....0

LAG....Scot Thompson....D...02/11/1981....0
LAG....Chris Aloisi.....D...02/21/1981....0

MET....Kenny Arena......D...02/06/1981....1
MET....Seth Stammler....D...09/29/1981....0

NER....Kyle Singer.....GK...08/06/1980....1
NER....Bobby Thompson...M...05/07/1981....0
NER....Luke Vercollone..M...04/04/1982....0

SJE....Tighe Dombrowski.M...03/03/1982....0
SJE....Roger Levesque...F...01/22/1981....1

Note: Some of these guys are on loan to A-League teams.

Discovery Players (3)

DAL....Milton Reyes....M-D..05/02/1974....1
KCW....Alex Zotinca....D....01/22/1977....1
LAG....Dan Popik.......GK...03/23/1979....1


Pro-40 Players (26)

CHI....Nate Jaqua........F-M....10/28/1981....1
CHI....D.J. Countess......GK....01/09/1982....2
CHI....Craig Capano........M....07/07/1985....2

CLB....Nelson Akwari.......D....02/04/1982....2
CLB....Devin Barclay.......F....04/09/1983....3
CLB....Chad Marshall.......D....08/22/1984....0

COL....Seth Trembly......M-D....03/21/1982....4

DAL....Jason Thompson......F....11/22/1981....0
DAL....Clarence Goodson....D....05/17/1982....0
DAL....Jordan Stone........M....03/16/1984....2
DAL....Eddie Johnson.......F....03/31/1984....3

DCU....Brian Carroll.......M....07/20/1981....0
DCU....David Stokes........D....05/28/1982....0
DCU....Alecko Eskandarian..F....07/09/1982....1
DCU....Freddy Adu..........F....06/02/1989....0

KCW....Jose Burciaga Jr..M-D....11/16/1981....2

LAG....Ricky Lewis.........D....05/29/1982....1
LAG....Josh Gardner........M....09/14/1982....0
LAG....Ned Grabavoy........M....07/01/1983....0
LAG....Guillermo Gonzalez..M....01/04/1986....1

MET....Eddie Gaven.........M....10/25/1986....1
MET....Michael Bradley.....M....07/31/1987....0

NER....Clint Dempsey.......M....03/09/1983....0

SJE....Steve Cronin.......GK....05/28/1983....0
SJE....Ryan Cochrane.......D....08/08/1983....0
SJE....Arturo Alvarez....M-F....06/28/1985....1


Senior Internationals (25)

CHI....Andy Williams.......M....09/23/1977....6
CHI....Dipsy Selolwane.....F....01/27/1978....2

COL....John Spencer........F....09/11/1970....3
COL....Alberto Delgado.....F....03/11/1978....0
COL....Zizi Roberts........F....06/13/1979....1
COL....Daryl Powell........M....11/15/1971....1 (DISC)

CLB....Duncan Oughton....M-F....06/14/1977....3

DAL....Ronnie O'Brien......M....01/05/1979....2
DAL....Simo Valakari.......M....04/28/1973....0 (DISC)
DAL....Toni Nhleko.........F....07/24/1979....1 (DISC)

DCU....Jaime Moreno........F....01/19/1974....8

KCW....Igor Simutenkov.....F....04/03/1973....2
KCW....Diego Walsh.......M-F....12/08/1979....1
KCW....Vuk Rasovic.........D....01/03/1973....0 (DISC)

LAG....Andreas Herzog....M-F....09/10/1968....0
LAG....Alejandro Moreno....F....07/08/1979....2
LAG....Carlos Ruiz.........F....09/15/1979....2 (DISC)

MET....Sergio Galvan Rey...F....06/09/1973....0
MET....Amado Guevara.......M....05/02/1976....1
MET....Tenywa Bonseu.......D....10/28/1976....4

NER....Daouda Kante........D....07/16/1978....2
NER....Avery John..........D....06/18/1975....0 (DISC)
NER....Jose Cancela........M....06/25/1976....1 (DISC)

SJE....Ronnie Ekelund......M....08/21/1972....3
SJE....Dwayne De Rosario...F....05/15/1978....3

Note: Simon Elliott received his green card yesterday, so he's no longer a Senior International. How does Colorado have four SIs? Did I read that Roberts is hurt, does that play into it?

There's no GC listing (there used to be), so I don't know how many other guys are in the same situation. Pat Onstad isn't a Senior International? Does he have a green card from all these years of playing in the States?

Anyway, make of that what you will. Someone can figure out which TIs will become SIs next year based on their age.

And, by all means, point out any errors MLSNet or I have made in the above list.

[Dave Brull]

Onstad has his green card based on his marriage to a lovely woman from South Carolina.

[prk166]

What's to hate about it? It makes sure teams are made up mostly of Americans. I would like to see it increased to 4 but that's a small thing.

That is to say, it makes sure the teams are made up of mostly cheap talent. :D

[pbsharp]

I don't know how much I believe MLSNet...I'd have to cross check with each team first, but here's what they list as each player in each category, by team and by age, with MLS experience the last column.
.
.
Senior Internationals (25)

.
.
COL....John Spencer........F....09/11/1970....3
COL....Alberto Delgado.....F....03/11/1978....0
COL....Zizi Roberts........F....06/13/1979....1
COL....Daryl Powell........M....11/15/1971....1 (DISC)
.
DCU....Jaime Moreno........F....01/19/1974....8
.
LAG....Andreas Herzog....M-F....09/10/1968....0
LAG....Alejandro Moreno....F....07/08/1979....2
LAG....Carlos Ruiz.........F....09/15/1979....2 (DISC)



Do Hong Myung-Bo (LAG), Ryan Nelsen (DCU), Antonio de la Torre (COL) and Jean Philippe Peguero (COL) all have a green cards?

Paul.

[kenntomasch]

I know Bo does. I don't know about the others.

[Zman Gunner]

Do Hong Myung-Bo (LAG), Ryan Nelsen (DCU), Antonio de la Torre (COL) and Jean Philippe Peguero (COL) all have a green cards?

Paul.


Nelsen has a green card. I am not sure how Peguero could have gotten one so quickly - I thought that he was Haiti-based almost up to the time when the Rapids signed him.

[Zman Gunner]

I don't know how much I believe MLSNet...I'd have to cross check with each team first, but here's what they list as each player in each category, by team and by age, with MLS experience the last column.


Developmental Players (25)

CHI....Denny Clanton....D...04/04/1982....0
CHI....Matt Pickens....GK...04/05/1982....0
CHI....Ian Pilarski.....M...04/06/1982....0

COL....Byron Foss......GK...10/06/1979....0
COL....Jordan Cila......M...04/11/1982....0
COL....Gary Sullivan....D...06/24/1982....0
COL....Michael Erush....M...01/24/1983....0

CLB....Jake Traeger.....D...04/16/1980....1
CLB....Michael Ritch....F...04/26/1981....1
CLB....Jamal Sutton.....F...03/22/1982....0

DAL....Ty Maurin........M...08/16/1982....0

KCW....Taylor Graham....D...06/03/1980....1
KCW....Will Hesmer.....GK...11/23/1981....0
KCW....Jack Jewsbury....M...04/13/1981....1
KCW....Justin Detter....F...08/07/1982....0
KCW....Brian Roberts....D...08/28/1982....0

LAG....Scot Thompson....D...02/11/1981....0
LAG....Chris Aloisi.....D...02/21/1981....0

MET....Kenny Arena......D...02/06/1981....1
MET....Seth Stammler....D...09/29/1981....0

NER....Kyle Singer.....GK...08/06/1980....1
NER....Bobby Thompson...M...05/07/1981....0
NER....Luke Vercollone..M...04/04/1982....0

SJE....Tighe Dombrowski.M...03/03/1982....0
SJE....Roger Levesque...F...01/22/1981....1

Note: Some of these guys are on loan to A-League teams.

Discovery Players (3)

DAL....Milton Reyes....M-D..05/02/1974....1
KCW....Alex Zotinca....D....01/22/1977....1
LAG....Dan Popik.......GK...03/23/1979....1


Pro-40 Players (26)

CHI....Nate Jaqua........F-M....10/28/1981....1
CHI....D.J. Countess......GK....01/09/1982....2
CHI....Craig Capano........M....07/07/1985....2

CLB....Nelson Akwari.......D....02/04/1982....2
CLB....Devin Barclay.......F....04/09/1983....3
CLB....Chad Marshall.......D....08/22/1984....0

COL....Seth Trembly......M-D....03/21/1982....4

DAL....Jason Thompson......F....11/22/1981....0
DAL....Clarence Goodson....D....05/17/1982....0
DAL....Jordan Stone........M....03/16/1984....2
DAL....Eddie Johnson.......F....03/31/1984....3

DCU....Brian Carroll.......M....07/20/1981....0
DCU....David Stokes........D....05/28/1982....0
DCU....Alecko Eskandarian..F....07/09/1982....1
DCU....Freddy Adu..........F....06/02/1989....0

KCW....Jose Burciaga Jr..M-D....11/16/1981....2

LAG....Ricky Lewis.........D....05/29/1982....1
LAG....Josh Gardner........M....09/14/1982....0
LAG....Ned Grabavoy........M....07/01/1983....0
LAG....Guillermo Gonzalez..M....01/04/1986....1

MET....Eddie Gaven.........M....10/25/1986....1
MET....Michael Bradley.....M....07/31/1987....0

NER....Clint Dempsey.......M....03/09/1983....0

SJE....Steve Cronin.......GK....05/28/1983....0
SJE....Ryan Cochrane.......D....08/08/1983....0
SJE....Arturo Alvarez....M-F....06/28/1985....1


Senior Internationals (25)

CHI....Andy Williams.......M....09/23/1977....6
CHI....Dipsy Selolwane.....F....01/27/1978....2

COL....John Spencer........F....09/11/1970....3
COL....Alberto Delgado.....F....03/11/1978....0
COL....Zizi Roberts........F....06/13/1979....1
COL....Daryl Powell........M....11/15/1971....1 (DISC)

CLB....Duncan Oughton....M-F....06/14/1977....3

DAL....Ronnie O'Brien......M....01/05/1979....2
DAL....Simo Valakari.......M....04/28/1973....0 (DISC)
DAL....Toni Nhleko.........F....07/24/1979....1 (DISC)

DCU....Jaime Moreno........F....01/19/1974....8

KCW....Igor Simutenkov.....F....04/03/1973....2
KCW....Diego Walsh.......M-F....12/08/1979....1
KCW....Vuk Rasovic.........D....01/03/1973....0 (DISC)

LAG....Andreas Herzog....M-F....09/10/1968....0
LAG....Alejandro Moreno....F....07/08/1979....2
LAG....Carlos Ruiz.........F....09/15/1979....2 (DISC)

MET....Sergio Galvan Rey...F....06/09/1973....0
MET....Amado Guevara.......M....05/02/1976....1
MET....Tenywa Bonseu.......D....10/28/1976....4

NER....Daouda Kante........D....07/16/1978....2
NER....Avery John..........D....06/18/1975....0 (DISC)
NER....Jose Cancela........M....06/25/1976....1 (DISC)

SJE....Ronnie Ekelund......M....08/21/1972....3
SJE....Dwayne De Rosario...F....05/15/1978....3

Note: Simon Elliott received his green card yesterday, so he's no longer a Senior International. How does Colorado have four SIs? Did I read that Roberts is hurt, does that play into it?

There's no GC listing (there used to be), so I don't know how many other guys are in the same situation. Pat Onstad isn't a Senior International? Does he have a green card from all these years of playing in the States?

Anyway, make of that what you will. Someone can figure out which TIs will become SIs next year based on their age.

And, by all means, point out any errors MLSNet or I have made in the above list.

I believe Roberts was put on IR (ending his season) which allowed Colorado to sign another SI (Delgado) to replace him. In the off-season, Colorado would have to cut/trade one of the four SI players.

[Zman Gunner]

I don't know how much I believe MLSNet...I'd have to cross check with each team first, but here's what they list as each player in each category, by team and by age, with MLS experience the last column.


Developmental Players (25)

CHI....Denny Clanton....D...04/04/1982....0
CHI....Matt Pickens....GK...04/05/1982....0
CHI....Ian Pilarski.....M...04/06/1982....0

COL....Byron Foss......GK...10/06/1979....0
COL....Jordan Cila......M...04/11/1982....0
COL....Gary Sullivan....D...06/24/1982....0
COL....Michael Erush....M...01/24/1983....0

CLB....Jake Traeger.....D...04/16/1980....1
CLB....Michael Ritch....F...04/26/1981....1
CLB....Jamal Sutton.....F...03/22/1982....0

DAL....Ty Maurin........M...08/16/1982....0

KCW....Taylor Graham....D...06/03/1980....1
KCW....Will Hesmer.....GK...11/23/1981....0
KCW....Jack Jewsbury....M...04/13/1981....1
KCW....Justin Detter....F...08/07/1982....0
KCW....Brian Roberts....D...08/28/1982....0

LAG....Scot Thompson....D...02/11/1981....0
LAG....Chris Aloisi.....D...02/21/1981....0

MET....Kenny Arena......D...02/06/1981....1
MET....Seth Stammler....D...09/29/1981....0

NER....Kyle Singer.....GK...08/06/1980....1
NER....Bobby Thompson...M...05/07/1981....0
NER....Luke Vercollone..M...04/04/1982....0

SJE....Tighe Dombrowski.M...03/03/1982....0
SJE....Roger Levesque...F...01/22/1981....1

Note: Some of these guys are on loan to A-League teams.

Discovery Players (3)

DAL....Milton Reyes....M-D..05/02/1974....1
KCW....Alex Zotinca....D....01/22/1977....1
LAG....Dan Popik.......GK...03/23/1979....1


Pro-40 Players (26)

CHI....Nate Jaqua........F-M....10/28/1981....1
CHI....D.J. Countess......GK....01/09/1982....2
CHI....Craig Capano........M....07/07/1985....2

CLB....Nelson Akwari.......D....02/04/1982....2
CLB....Devin Barclay.......F....04/09/1983....3
CLB....Chad Marshall.......D....08/22/1984....0

COL....Seth Trembly......M-D....03/21/1982....4

DAL....Jason Thompson......F....11/22/1981....0
DAL....Clarence Goodson....D....05/17/1982....0
DAL....Jordan Stone........M....03/16/1984....2
DAL....Eddie Johnson.......F....03/31/1984....3

DCU....Brian Carroll.......M....07/20/1981....0
DCU....David Stokes........D....05/28/1982....0
DCU....Alecko Eskandarian..F....07/09/1982....1
DCU....Freddy Adu..........F....06/02/1989....0

KCW....Jose Burciaga Jr..M-D....11/16/1981....2

LAG....Ricky Lewis.........D....05/29/1982....1
LAG....Josh Gardner........M....09/14/1982....0
LAG....Ned Grabavoy........M....07/01/1983....0
LAG....Guillermo Gonzalez..M....01/04/1986....1

MET....Eddie Gaven.........M....10/25/1986....1
MET....Michael Bradley.....M....07/31/1987....0

NER....Clint Dempsey.......M....03/09/1983....0

SJE....Steve Cronin.......GK....05/28/1983....0
SJE....Ryan Cochrane.......D....08/08/1983....0
SJE....Arturo Alvarez....M-F....06/28/1985....1


Senior Internationals (25)

CHI....Andy Williams.......M....09/23/1977....6
CHI....Dipsy Selolwane.....F....01/27/1978....2

COL....John Spencer........F....09/11/1970....3
COL....Alberto Delgado.....F....03/11/1978....0
COL....Zizi Roberts........F....06/13/1979....1
COL....Daryl Powell........M....11/15/1971....1 (DISC)

CLB....Duncan Oughton....M-F....06/14/1977....3

DAL....Ronnie O'Brien......M....01/05/1979....2
DAL....Simo Valakari.......M....04/28/1973....0 (DISC)
DAL....Toni Nhleko.........F....07/24/1979....1 (DISC)

DCU....Jaime Moreno........F....01/19/1974....8

KCW....Igor Simutenkov.....F....04/03/1973....2
KCW....Diego Walsh.......M-F....12/08/1979....1
KCW....Vuk Rasovic.........D....01/03/1973....0 (DISC)

LAG....Andreas Herzog....M-F....09/10/1968....0
LAG....Alejandro Moreno....F....07/08/1979....2
LAG....Carlos Ruiz.........F....09/15/1979....2 (DISC)

MET....Sergio Galvan Rey...F....06/09/1973....0
MET....Amado Guevara.......M....05/02/1976....1
MET....Tenywa Bonseu.......D....10/28/1976....4

NER....Daouda Kante........D....07/16/1978....2
NER....Avery John..........D....06/18/1975....0 (DISC)
NER....Jose Cancela........M....06/25/1976....1 (DISC)

SJE....Ronnie Ekelund......M....08/21/1972....3
SJE....Dwayne De Rosario...F....05/15/1978....3

Note: Simon Elliott received his green card yesterday, so he's no longer a Senior International. How does Colorado have four SIs? Did I read that Roberts is hurt, does that play into it?

There's no GC listing (there used to be), so I don't know how many other guys are in the same situation. Pat Onstad isn't a Senior International? Does he have a green card from all these years of playing in the States?

Anyway, make of that what you will. Someone can figure out which TIs will become SIs next year based on their age.

And, by all means, point out any errors MLSNet or I have made in the above list.

mlsnet.com seems to have a hard time making two player designations per player (i.e. there are a few TI's - Brillant & Dorman - NE, Kuffour - DC, Flores - METRO, who are signed to developmental contracts).