Seedings for 2004 - 05 Champions League

[Dynamoloko17]

Has anyone saw the seeding for the 2004 - 05 Champions League They have Real Madrid and Manchester United in the top 8. Ahead of AC Milan Juventus Roma and Inter Milan. I know Juventus and Inter Milan didnt have the best of seasons last year but Real and Manchester United didnt either and should be seeded in the top 16. English team Chelsea was was seeded in top 16, while Liverpool somehow even managed to get there while its obvious they should be in the top 30 seeded if there is any.

[DamonEsquire]

Here (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2801963#post2801963) is discussion for accuracy and here (http://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=119711) for prediction contest for matches.

[Knave]

This belongs on the UEFA and Europe board.

[tomvandamn]

how did milan not get a top seed and bayern did

are you kidding me
bayern flopped the past 2 season in cl while milan won once and lost in the quarters before

i can see why manu.arsenal,porto and the spanish quartet got seeded but bayern munich ahead of acmilan is a joke

[Forza AZ]

how did milan not get a top seed and bayern did

are you kidding me
bayern flopped the past 2 season in cl while milan won once and lost in the quarters before

i can see why manu.arsenal,porto and the spanish quartet got seeded but bayern munich ahead of acmilan is a joke

Last 5 years:

Bayern München
1999/00 CL semifinal (24 points)
2000/01 CL winner (30 points)
2001/02 CL quarter final (23 points)
2002/03 CL round 1 (3 points)
2003/04 CL round 2 (9 points)

AC Milan
1999/00 CL round 1 (6 points)
2000/01 CL round 2 (15 points)
2001/02 UEFA-cup semifinal (19 points)
2002/03 CL winner (26 points)
2003/04 CL quarter final (14 points)

So both 1x winner, 1x SF, 1x QF, 1x R2 and 1x R1. So they had about the same results last 5 years, but Bayern collected more points (89 vs. 80).

So they are indeed deservedly ahead of Milan.

[Forza AZ]

Has anyone saw the seeding for the 2004 - 05 Champions League They have Real Madrid and Manchester United in the top 8. Ahead of AC Milan Juventus Roma and Inter Milan. I know Juventus and Inter Milan didnt have the best of seasons last year but Real and Manchester United didnt either and should be seeded in the top 16. English team Chelsea was was seeded in top 16, while Liverpool somehow even managed to get there while its obvious they should be in the top 30 seeded if there is any.

Last 5 years:

AC Milan (see post above)

Real Madrid
1999/00 CL winner
2000/01 CL semi final
2001/02 CL winner
2002/03 CL semi final
2003/04 CL quarter final

Manchester United
1999/00 CL quarter final
2000/01 CL quarter final
2001/02 CL semi final
2002/03 CL quarter final
2003/04 CL round 2

AS Roma
1999/00 UEFA-cup round 4
2000/01 UEFA-cup round 4
2001/02 CL round 2
2002/03 CL round 2
2003/04 UEFA-cup round 4

So it's clear that Real Madrid deserves a top seed and that Manchester is better than Milan (Milan did win once, but also was eliminated in round 1 once, while Man United reached the last 16 each time).
AS Roma must be happy with a top 16 seed, as they didn't reach the last 8 once last 5 years.

Chelsea
1999/00 CL quarter final
2000/01 UEFA-cup round 1
2001/02 UEFA-cup round 2
2002/03 UEFA-cup round 1
2003/04 CL semi final

Liverpool
1999/00 ---
2000/01 UEFA-cup winners
2001/02 CL quarter final
2002/03 UEFA-cup quarter final
2003/04 UEFA-cup round 4

So Liverpool is clearly better. All 4 times they were in the European Cups they reached the last 16, while Chelsea only did that twice.

[Kontra]

Is it the replacement seed in efect this year?

What i mean is, imagine Real Madrid is in the 3rd qualifying round, and its seed factor is #1 in europe. If a lesser team beats Real in the 3rd qual round it gest Real's seed? (top 8, being a group favourite) ?

[Dynamoloko17]

They should base all the seeding for the champions league on what that team looks like that year or how good they are at that time. Clearly Manchester United is not going to do that great this year same with Liverpool.

[Kontra]

They should base all the seeding for the champions league on what that team looks like that year or how good they are at that time. Clearly Manchester United is not going to do that great this year same with Liverpool.

How would that magical formula work?

[Forza AZ]

Is it the replacement seed in efect this year?

What i mean is, imagine Real Madrid is in the 3rd qualifying round, and its seed factor is #1 in europe. If a lesser team beats Real in the 3rd qual round it gest Real's seed? (top 8, being a group favourite) ?
No, if Real Madrid lose, their opponent in QR3 takes it's own coefficient in round 1 and will be seeded in (most likely) Pot 4.

[mad theory]

Forza explained it perfectly even though Real Madrid had a poor domestic season they still reached the qtr-final of the CL last season, and the seeding isn't to prove the best team at the moment but shows the best teams in CL in the past 5 years. R Madrid have won the CL the most in that time so they are 1st in the top seeding because they are favourites to win it.

[Spartak]

I actually don't care that Milan are not seeded. They are not punishing Milan they are punishing the top seed in Milan's group. The thing that is absolutely rediculous is that Liverpool is ranked ahead of Juventus in the UEFA coefficients. C'mon, Liverpool have been in the UEFA Cup in 3 of the last 5 years. It's unfair to give the same credit for winning a UEFA Cup game as you get for winning a CL game.

[Oscar]

They should base all the seeding for the champions league on what that team looks like that year

I agree

[Kontra]

I agree
LOL how would that work? Tell me the magical formula

[Oscar]

I knew I should have put a smiley in there, got to go with my instincts next time

[Dynamoloko17]

Mostly all teams take a summer tour or have summer friendlies. UEFA could look at that to get a taste for the team and wear they should be seeded.

[Oscar]

¿They should seed a team on their results in games that don't matter, where players don't go all-out because those games don't matter, against teams that might not even play in the UEFA, and where mostly sub players might be used because those games don't matter?

[BocaFan]

C'mon, Liverpool have been in the UEFA Cup in 3 of the last 5 years. It's unfair to give the same credit for winning a UEFA Cup game as you get for winning a CL game.

Finally somebody brought up the most important and controversal point: how can a UEFA Cup win be worth the same as a CL win? Not only is the tournament less important but the quality of your opponents in the UEFA Cup is much much lower, in general. On top of that, you play more games in the UEFA Cup, hence, get more opportunity to gather points. This is why a team such as Newcastle Utd earned more points last year than Porto!! How wrong is that??

[Wide Boy]

Finally somebody brought up the most important and controversal point: how can a UEFA Cup win be worth the same as a CL win? Not only is the tournament less important but the quality of your opponents in the UEFA Cup is much much lower, in general. On top of that, you play more games in the UEFA Cup, hence, get more opportunity to gather points. This is why a team such as Newcastle Utd earned more points last year than Porto!! How wrong is that??

I am a Newcastle supporter, but I agree with you entirely. Until the last 8, a seeded team is likely to play against a low quality of opponent in the UEFA Cup.