Van Gaal Vs Klinsmann [Archive]

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schwas

04 Nov 2009, 01:30 AM

With people comparing the 2 coaches, I thought I put some stats.

After 11 Bundesliga matches:

Klinsmann: 22 points, scored 25 goals, conceded 17

Van Gaal: 19 points, scored 17 goals, conceded 9

After 4 C.L matches:

Klinsmann: 2 wins, 2 draws, 8 points, scored 6, conceded 2 (Top of the group).

Van Gaal: 1 win, 1 draw, 2 losses, 4 points, scored 4, conceded 4 (3rd and out).

Edit: Its worth mentioning that 5 of the goals conceded under Klinsmann came in one match against Bremen. Also Rensing was our keeper for the majority of the season.

8 goals out of the 17 scored under Van Gaal came in 2 consecutive matches against BVB and the Wolves.

ForeverRed

04 Nov 2009, 04:38 AM

At this point in time the record favors Klinsmann but LvG needs just as much time as Klinsmann has gotten for an accurate comparison in my opinion.

Zullu

04 Nov 2009, 05:51 AM

About time some1 made this thread...
I was so happy back in 07 when I heard that Ze was coming back to fcb
Apart from Kahn he was my favorite player, and now he is shining for hsv...gr8 job Uly?

Duncan Idaho

04 Nov 2009, 06:23 AM

At this point in time the record favors Klinsmann but LvG needs just as much time as Klinsmann has gotten for an accurate comparison in my opinion.

You don't have time at BM so much should be obvious! Klinsmann didn't have time and so will LvG. Unless LvG pulls some serious magic turnaround in the BL he will be gone soon simply because he has not good CL season covering his ass like Klinsmann had. Klinsmann also had a rather good second half of the first season term in the BL. For those who can't remember he almost became winter champion as he was tied with Hoffenheim in points but the goal differential favored Hoffenheim. None of this applies to LvG and this Bayern team. They play as poor in CL as they play in the league and you can bet your house that there are already the alarm bells ringing in the FO. And also remember it is and will always be easier to fire the coach than anyone else.

KFofB

04 Nov 2009, 07:21 AM

Hendrik

04 Nov 2009, 07:55 AM

2008/2009, first half the season:

Bundesliga:

7 games without Ribery: 2 wins, 3 draws, 2 losses -> 1.29 p/game

10 games with Ribery: 8 wins, 2 draws, 0 losses -> 2.6 p/game

CL: Ribery was available in five out of six games

30.09.2008 FC Bayern München - Olympique Lyon 1:1 (0:1)

Rensing - Oddo, Lucio, Breno, Lahm - Demichelis, Ze Roberto, Schweinsteiger, Ribery - Klose, Toni

03.11.2009 FC Bayern München - Girondins Bordeaux 0:2 (0:1)

Butt - Lahm, Demichelis, Badstuber, Braafheid - van Bommel, Tymoshchuk, Schweinsteiger, Pranjic - Klose, Toni

schwas

04 Nov 2009, 08:01 AM

an adequate comparison would detail when Ribery was playing and when he wasn't. I don't quite recall at this point..but it seems Klinsi had a good run when Ribery returned and was healthy through to the break.

Ribery was out for the first 7 IIRC, and even when he came back he wasnt 100% fit, and was out of form. It took him more than 4 matches to start showing his top form.

Zullu

04 Nov 2009, 09:07 AM

Butt - Lahm, Demichelis, Badstuber, Braafheid - van Bommel, Tymoshchuk, Schweinsteiger, Pranjic - Klose, Toni

How is lining up these 3 not his fault? I mean I am pretty sure Tymo does a better job as DM and tht we have better players for RM spot

And itsn't it Van Reetard who insists we play a diamond?

mcweiss

04 Nov 2009, 09:30 AM

What a comparison...who sucks more!!! This is what we have evolved to at Bayern...

In order to change all this Uli needs to be removed also...

eissman

04 Nov 2009, 11:51 AM

Thanks guys for the statistics. I shows some interesting things:

a) RECESSION

In a economic recession, analysts send warning of the impending damage ahead that some heed and others ignore. Ultimately, the length and time of that damage is somewhat unpredictable, and without a plan, financial collapse is inevitable.

Bayern are seeing this now. The management did not take the proper steps to prepare for this. And now what had started under Hitzfeld's 2nd term at BAyern (remember, he had to repair the ship after Magath's firing), continued with Klinsmann, but didn't really show up until after Klinsmann's sacking. Van Gaal has been left with the aftermath of all this, and a squad full of players Bayern thought they needed, yet hadn't assumed Van Gaal needed.

Excuses aside... I think the Klinsmann v LvG comparisons are inevitable as they are so similar, but in reality, this recession's damage was started long before and was only compounded by Klinsmann's term.

Had we signed Landon Donovan, none of this would have happened! :D

(sorry, trying to find humor in this dyer affair!)

b) THE RIBERY FACTOR

As I mentioned in the post-game thread, management's hell-bent focus on making Ribery the focal point of our attack has come back to bite them in the ass. The statistics clearly prove that his worth cannot be measured in gold, but his absense speaks volumes!!! Where was the backup plan? Robben isn't even Ribery... no one is. The man is the lifeblood of Bayern for the past 3 seasons, period.

If Bayern don't advance in the CL and cannot claim at least 3 place in the Bundesliga this year, then Audi better drop a mint on this Frenchman because what motivation does he have to stay??? He has done everything for Bayern...

Eissman has his fingers and toes crossed on this one.

ForeverRed

04 Nov 2009, 02:45 PM

You don't have time at BM so much should be obvious! Klinsmann didn't have time and so will LvG. Unless LvG pulls some serious magic turnaround in the BL he will be gone soon simply because he has not good CL season covering his ass like Klinsmann had. Klinsmann also had a rather good second half of the first season term in the BL. For those who can't remember he almost became winter champion as he was tied with Hoffenheim in points but the goal differential favored Hoffenheim. None of this applies to LvG and this Bayern team. They play as poor in CL as they play in the league and you can bet your house that there are already the alarm bells ringing in the FO. And also remember it is and will always be easier to fire the coach than anyone else.

Thats the crux of the issue isn't it? There is never a chance allowed for any consistent team building and strategizing, let alone the complete ineptitude and short sightedness that leads to situations like this in the first place. It's a lose-lose situation. If the poor form continues LvG will be fired and the cycle starts all over again. If management gives him preferential treatment he is allowed to continue his poor form. Either way we're ********ed.

schwas

04 Nov 2009, 02:52 PM

Thats the crux of the issue isn't it? There is never a chance allowed for any consistent team building and strategizing, let alone the complete ineptitude and short sightedness that leads to situations like this in the first place. It's a lose-lose situation. If the poor form continues LvG will be fired and the cycle starts all over again. If management gives him preferential treatment he is allowed to continue his poor form. Either way we're ********ed.

I dont mind us giving the right coach enough time to build. However It has to be the right man for the job. Otherwise we will be wasting 2-3 years without getting anywhere.

The question is: Is Van Gaal the right man for the Job??

Purely on what we have seen from him so far, I think not.

ForeverRed

04 Nov 2009, 02:56 PM

I dont mind us giving the right coach enough time to build. However It has to be the right man for the job. Otherwise we will be wasting 2-3 years without getting anywhere.

The question is: Is Van Gaal the right man for the Job??

Purely on what we have seen from him so far, I think not.

Thats the thing, who is? Especially when things are tough at first and they have to put up with a flawed and over bearing management?

FCBerken

04 Nov 2009, 02:57 PM

The thing is, if we were to get rid of LvG either soon or around the end of the season, who could we get?

I am currently not really in favor of firing van Gaal yet, but what would be realistic alternatives that could handle this team and get the best out of these players a la Hitzfeld (as much as people bitched about him at the time, he did get the job done)?

schwas

04 Nov 2009, 03:07 PM

Thats the thing, who is? Especially when things are tough at first and they have to put up with a flawed and over bearing management?

Well.... It has to be a coach who can build a flexible system around the players we have. We are not Real Madrid so we cant just go out and buy a whole new team in one summer. With the right coach you can bring 2-3 players every year without upsetting the system too much.

We need a guy who can build while meeting the minimum requirements (finishing top 3 in the B.L, and NOT getting knocked out in the first round of the C.L)

eissman

04 Nov 2009, 03:22 PM

Well.... It has to be a coach who can build a flexible system around the players we have.

That is the bottom line.

LvG has proven to NOT be able to do this, as his stubborness is to play HIS system of play.

I hate to axe another coach. Bayern need some consistancy, but they need to decide if keeping LvG is the right thing to do for the future.

I am starting to doubt it if I am being honest.

Duncan Idaho

04 Nov 2009, 03:23 PM

If LvG gets fired I expect that Gerland has to take over for the rest of the season.

ForeverRed

04 Nov 2009, 03:28 PM

If LvG gets fired I expect that Gerland has to take over for the rest of the season.

Yup, thats how I see it.

KFofB

04 Nov 2009, 03:50 PM

Well.... It has to be a coach who can build a flexible system around the players we have.

no one seems to know what this "system" would be, although there are many
varied opinions posted here.

I think the fundamental problems go deeper than "systems" of play.

KFofB

04 Nov 2009, 03:51 PM