(BL Matchday 11) VfB Stuttgart vs FC Bayern Munchen [R]

[schwas]

I could also argue that your pointing at the coach is laughable since no one here really knows whether the players do or don't do what the coach wants them to do offensively

Then the coach cant communicate with the players which is a bigger problem.

Doesnt look strange that almost our entire attack (midfielders and strikers) are out of form.

LVG keeps on saying that he is satisfied with the average performances, he doesnt drop the struggling players, he doesnt change the system that isnt working. Then yes we can blame him for the current situation.

Again im not saying the players have nothing to answer for, however the coach should take a big share of the blame for the performances.

[Matakos]

Not exactly sure what you guys are expecting from something from that tool. It could be better, but those things are never going to look nice no matter what the team. It's a nice toy, but no point trying to get validation from that on how the team played.
I have tried it on other teams and they looked much more organised tactically than us.Yes, it shows much for me.

[Duncan Idaho]

Then the coach cant communicate with the players which is a bigger problem.



or the players simply can't understand :rolleyes:

I have really no one idea why the players already found another scapegoat and people can't even question their own logic

[Equilibrium]

quite interesting

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/gamecas...=GER.1&cc=5739 (http://soccernet.espn.go.com/gamecast?id=272914&page=features&league=GER.1&cc=5739)

choose average position and then Bayern. Does this look like an actual tactical formation that can score a goal?
We look like a defensive team. At least Van Gaal can boast about posession and a clean sheet.

[mcweiss]

I just don"t have the patience to watch this anymore...

My quick analysis (which should be no surprise to anyone)...

GK - Butt is up to Bayern quality and was our man of the match...

Defensively we look fine except for Braaf, who is clearly not BL material. Demi back from injury and two other solid center backs + Lahm = solid but we need to purchase another fullback / wingback to fit into whatever system we are going to play. The only major issue is is quality of balls out of the back.

Midfield - I don't know where to begin here. Our midfield is complete garbage. I will not point out any individuals, however the return of Robben and Ribery will not solve this issue. We do not have a spine in the middle of our team...this needs to be the priority in the offseason...central midfielders need to be purchased of quality. MvB and whoever else plays with him are just not the quality to live up to Bayern standards...Baumjohan should be used in place of Schweini as he possess good pace. Schweini looks like a traffic cone out there...

Fowards - we have a stable of excellent attackers...I think it is the quality of build up play and the service from our midfield that is making them look so bad...

I am almost to the point where I will not watch any more matches live in order to not waste my time...This is not a case of a spoiled fan. I don't blame the players, I blame Uli and the coaching staff. The football we are playing is clearly not better than Klinsi with spending more $'s...

[Equilibrium]

It seems with Van Bommel coming back, everyone else is playing bad. The other 3 were playing well until he walked in the line-up, now 2 of those 3 players are playing like crap (Tymo, SchweinPig). Coincidence or not, it's up to you to decide.

[Hendrik]

Tymo is playing better now with MvB back in the team. He was horrendous in the first weeks of the season, now he's at least somewhat reliable on the defensive end.

And don't forget that Ribery and Robben have both been injured since MvB came back from injury so it's not a fair comparison.



LVG keeps on saying that he is satisfied with the average performances, he doesnt drop the struggling players, he doesnt change the system that isnt working. Then yes we can blame him for the current situation.

It's not like LvG has a choice. Who's he supposed to bring? Ottl, Altintop, Pranjic?

Our two best attacking players are out, management thought it was a good idea to replace Ze with Tymoshchuk (we truly needed another limited midfielder) and now LvG is to blame for our "hilariously boring" team? Please.

[Equilibrium]

http://www.nepanetwork.com/pittstonpolice/excuses.gif

[Matakos]

I just don"t have the patience to watch this anymore...

My quick analysis (which should be no surprise to anyone)...

GK - Butt is up to Bayern quality and was our man of the match...

Defensively we look fine except for Braaf, who is clearly not BL material. Demi back from injury and two other solid center backs + Lahm = solid but we need to purchase another fullback / wingback to fit into whatever system we are going to play. The only major issue is is quality of balls out of the back.

Midfield - I don't know where to begin here. Our midfield is complete garbage. I will not point out any individuals, however the return of Robben and Ribery will not solve this issue. We do not have a spine in the middle of our team...this needs to be the priority in the offseason...central midfielders need to be purchased of quality. MvB and whoever else plays with him are just not the quality to live up to Bayern standards...Baumjohan should be used in place of Schweini as he possess good pace. Schweini looks like a traffic cone out there...

Fowards - we have a stable of excellent attackers...I think it is the quality of build up play and the service from our midfield that is making them look so bad...

I am almost to the point where I will not watch any more matches live in order to not waste my time...This is not a case of a spoiled fan. I don't blame the players, I blame Uli and the coaching staff. The football we are playing is clearly not better than Klinsi with spending more $'s...
Actually, Braafheid was very good against Stuttgart imo.

[Marienburg]

It seems with Van Bommel coming back, everyone else is playing bad. The other 3 were playing well until he walked in the line-up, now 2 of those 3 players are playing like crap (Tymo, SchweinPig). Coincidence or not, it's up to you to decide.

Both are playing out of position. Tymo is no RM and Schweini is a better CM than LM. It's not surprising.

[ForeverRed]

It's not like LvG has a choice. Who's he supposed to bring? Ottl, Altintop, Pranjic?

Our two best attacking players are out, management thought it was a good idea to replace Ze with Tymoshchuk (we truly needed another limited midfielder) and now LvG is to blame for our "hilariously boring" team? Please.

The outcome cannot be blamed on one party alone, it is a combination of decisions.

Management's short sighted team building and overestimation of the squad/certain players along with LvG's stubborn favoritism and unwillingness to play and adapt the formation to the player's strengths.

[Hendrik]

The outcome cannot be blamed on one party alone, it is a combination of decisions.

Management's short sighted team building and overestimation of the squad/certain players along with LvG's stubborn favoritism and unwillingness to play and adapt the formation to the player's strengths.
He wants the captain and most vocal player in the middle. In the end it makes no difference if MvB or Tymo is being played out of position.

[eissman]

Good comments here...

As I had a mix up with the wife regarding recording this, so I will have to watch this Monday when GolTV replays this at Noon.

I think EQ's comment regarding the midfield since MVB's return is accurate... there was some cohesiveness in the center. I am not sure I agree about Tymo's "improvement" Hendrik, but you did mentioned the defensive side and I would be inclined to agree there... his indecisiveness has been replaced by aggressiveness. And Hendrik, the comparison EQ was making was with regards to the midfield, and even though Ribery/Robben have not been present together during MVB's return, it is the core of 3 in midfield that the comparison is being made I believe. With the injection of MVB into the starting XI, the others have suffered as it seemed "sorted out" before his return.

This is typically with new faces in a lineup. I said the same thing often about Ballack during his absence for Bayern, and then when he returned Bayern subsequently when into a minor tailspin. The acclimation process takes time, and unfortunately, it is not during the best 'time of season' for Bayern.

[Zullu]

Why doesn't Louis play his darling Pranjic instead of pig boy at LM?

[eissman]

He wants the captain and most vocal player in the middle. In the end it makes no difference if MvB or Tymo is being played out of position.

And this is the main point about MVB in the lineup....

LvG will make it work no matter what. You have ONE guarantee... that MVB WILL BE in midfield, no matter what. He is the captain, he is the leader according to LvG and he will be in the midfield. The others spots are no guarantee.

And this is also the evidence of the stubborn arrogance of LvG that we were all so warned about from others. It is feasible that our best midfield could be without MVB entirely (doubtful, but feasible), yet we will never know unless other circumstances dictate, as this is not in LvG's gameplan.

[eissman]

Why doesn't Louis play his darling Pranjic instead of pig boy at LM?

I don't rate my viewings of Pranjic at LM to be an improvement over Schweini. And given Schweini's drop in performance (it IS that time of year for him again, isn't it DF???), that isn't saying a whole lot.

[ForeverRed]

He wants the captain and most vocal player in the middle. In the end it makes no difference if MvB or Tymo is being played out of position.

MvB can be in the middle, just not as the DM, thats all. That is the fundamental problem of our midfield.

[eissman]

MvB can be in the middle, just not as the DM, thats all. That is the fundamental problem of our midfield.

Those are my thoughts as well, but that is exactly what is wrong with this picture... LvG is convinced that HE is the answer there, and so we will never know otherwise. I tend to think it is trying to find a square peg into a round hole. I liked MVB's contribution in midfield in attack against Frankfurt on Wednesday. I will make a more accurate judgment once I see Stuttgart game on Monday night.

Why not have a midfield that consists entirely of defensive minded midfielders? Say Demichelis as the central mid behind Tymo and MVB? That is midfield formation that would allow for Ribery/Robben to create with no concern for defending and yet it is a midfield we will NOT see as MVB must play at DM, according to LvG.

[ForeverRed]

Those are my thoughts as well, but that is exactly what is wrong with this picture... LvG is convinced that HE is the answer there, and so we will never know otherwise. I tend to think it is trying to find a square peg into a round hole. I liked MVB's contribution in midfield in attack against Frankfurt on Wednesday. I will make a more accurate judgment once I see Stuttgart game on Monday night.


It's not like he doesn't have anything to go by, look how effective MvB was when he first arrived and played ahead of an actual defensive midfielder. He was still playing in the center, still able to affect the game and lead the team and he actually wasn't a f'n liability as he has become in the last two years.

[Equilibrium]

Those are my thoughts as well, but that is exactly what is wrong with this picture... LvG is convinced that HE is the answer there, and so we will never know otherwise. I tend to think it is trying to find a square peg into a round hole. I liked MVB's contribution in midfield in attack against Frankfurt on Wednesday. I will make a more accurate judgment once I see Stuttgart game on Monday night.

Why not have a midfield that consists entirely of defensive minded midfielders? Say Demichelis as the central mid behind Tymo and MVB? That is midfield formation that would allow for Ribery/Robben to create with no concern for defending and yet it is a midfield we will NOT see as MVB must play at DM, according to LvG.
Robbery will be utterly useless because none of the midfielders bar to a degree Demichellis can pass and spray the ball. You need players to connect the ball from D to attack. It will be useless like the Bordeaux match where we had 3 DMs and everyone wondered why we keep losing possession.

Our whole problem right now is that no one can connect from midfield to attack, if that were to happen more chances would be made. Schweini is horrible right now unless a 4-3-3 is happening and he is a roaming CM who defends and attacks. Otherwise, he sucks.. like the other games since we've switched to a 4-4-2. I think his drop of form is more due to switching to position he's not as good at rather than that time of year.

Also Tymoschuk most certainly has not looked better with Bommel in the line-up, he's just looked absolutely horrible especially when he's been played in the RM position.. the games where he's been the worst the entire season.