TIM Cup (Coppa Italia) '04-'05 [R]

[SueB]

Here are the format and dates for the 2004-5 Coppa Italia. The listed teams assume everybody is successfully admitted into the league for next season. This is subject to change ...

Qualifying round (Aug 14, Aug 22, Sept 1):-
32 teams divided into 8 groups of 4:
4 Serie A teams (Livorno, Messina, Atalanta, Fiorentina)
22 Serie B teams (all of them)
6 Serie C teams (Bari, Pescara, Avellino, Como + 2 to be designated by the Serie C; in previous years, 10 Serie C teams qualified because there were only 38 teams in Serie A/B. The designated teams usually include the two finalists of the previous year's Coppa Italia Serie C, which were Cesena and Pro Patria. But Cesena is in Serie B this season, so are already in the competition. They may also use final classification as a criteria this year - in this case, Lumezzane and Viterbese were the highest-placed in each group that were not promoted).

1st Round (Sept 15, 29)
8 qualifying round group-winners vs 8 Serie A teams (Cagliari, Palermo, Siena, Reggina, Bologna, Lecce, Chievo)

Round of 16 (Dec 22, Jan 12)
8 1st-round winners vs remaining 8 Serie A teams (Sampdoria, Udinese, Lazio, Parma, Inter, Juventus, Roma, Milan)

Quarterfinals (Jan 26, Mar 2)

Semifinals (April 20, May 11)

Final (June 12, 15)

There is very little randomness about this competition. The 8 preliminary groups are set up by geographic considerations. I believe the group winners get drawn randomly vs the lower-rated Serie A teams in the first knockout round, but after that, the bracket is completely seeded:

16) Cagliari/qualifier winner vs 1) Lazio (top seed as defending champs)
9) Chievo/qualifier winner vs 8) Sampdoria

12) Bologna/qualifier winner vs 5) Inter
13) Reggina/qualifier winner vs 4) Juventus

14) Siena/qualifier winner vs 3) Roma
11) Brescia/qualifier winner vs 6) Parma

10) Lecce/qualifier winner vs 7) Udinese
15) Palermo/qualifier winner vs 2) Milan

And they don't even leave home and away up to chance with the higher seed getting the return leg. No wonder there are never any surprises in this tournament.

[Peakite]

Have they ever considered opening up this tournament again? Particually with the low number of Serie C teams in it this year.

[SueB]

So, there WAS a time it was open to all teams?! As long as I've been paying attention (last 10 years or so), it's been pretty much this same format with a separate Coppa Italia for Serie C teams (the Serie C teams that participate in the "real" Coppa get to participate in the Serie C version as well). Looks like there's been a Serie C version since the early 70s, according to RSSSF.

And unfortunately, no, I haven't seen any hint that they would ever consider opening the tournament to all of the clubs. Though that would be cool though. As would be single-game knockout, random draws, etc etc. *sigh*

[Peakite]

Not exactly, but in the late thirties all (or it seems that way) Serie C clubs were admitted. About 150 clubs in total. Not the entire lot of clubs, but a lot more than today.

[mr magoo]

I still think that an FA cup style tournament would be most beneficial for this cup, maybe I'm biased but there seems to be a lot more intrested in our cup than there seems to be in the cup's in other major European Countries.

[SueB]

The format for the Coppa Italia of Serie C has also been announced. The group stage will consist of 84 teams, place in 12 groups of 5 and 4 groups of 6. They will play each team in their group once (match dates are Aug 14, 18, 22, 25 and Sept 1). Top team in each group plus 10 second-place finishers will move to the knockout phase, along with the 6 teams playing in the qualifying round of the regular Coppa Italia. After that, it'll be a regular knockout tournament (home and home).

They also published the criteria for determining the 6 Serie C teams to play in the regular Coppa Italia. As mentioned above, they will be the four teams relegated from B last season + the two finalists from last season's Coppa Italia of C. Since Cesena, the winner of the tournament, won promotion to B, another team must take their place based on the league tables.

These were the final standings from last season -
C1A 1. Arezzo (promoted), 2. Lumezzane, 3. Cesena (promoted)
C1B 1. Catanzaro (promoted), 2. Crotone (promoted), 3. Viterbese

Pro Patria finished 14th in C1A but qualifies as the losing finalist of the Coppa Italia of Serie C. My understanding is that, since Pro Patria qualified from C1A, the highest-ranking unpromoted team from C1B will be the other participant - Viterbese. Poor Lumezzane.

http://www.lega-calcio-serie-c.it/Comunic2005/Lega/Lega%20002.pdf

[SueB]

Well, with Viterbese likely to be relegated to C2 as a result of financial problems, I wonder if Lumezzane will take their place, or if it'll be the next-placed team from last year's Group C1B (which is Acireale).

[SueB]

The draw for the preliminary (group) phase was held today:

Group 1 - Empoli, Genoa, Lumezzane, Torino
Group 2 - Albinoleffe, Atalanta, Pro Patria, Vicenza
Group 3 - Modena, Treviso, Triestina, Venezia
Group 4 - Arezzo, Ascoli, Cesena, Livorno
Group 5 - Fiorentina, Piacenza, Verona, Team "X"
Group 6 - Perugia, Pescara, Ternana, Team "Y"
Group 7 - Avellino, Catania, Catanzaro, Salernitana
Group 8 - Bari, Crotone, Messina, Team "Z"

Team X, Y and Z are spots that would've been filled by Ancona, Napoli, and Viterbese, but are currently left open, pending the league ruling on placement of those teams. Why not Como as well, I'm not sure.

[RandyNA74]

In truth, the only people who really care about Coppa Italia are the fans of the teams involved, and real interest is probably only generated around the semifinal stage. Quite often, a successful Coppa Italia run by a smaller club or club that "has seen better days" is the only real highlight. Recent examples:

1) Napoli's heroic run in '96-'97, losing the final to Vicenza :mad:
We started the season well, but ended up collapsing in the league (especially after the rumors that Simoni was soon headed to Inter were confirmed...). The successful Coppa run kept some respectibility to the season and was Napoli's only chance of winning a trophy since 1990. The quarterfinal vs. Lazio in Rome, with 9 men on the field, was historic. Napoli held on 1-1 two men down, and went on to beat Inter on penalites in the semifinal (I listened to that one on the radio...what an experience!). Then after winning the first leg of the final 1-0, Napoli fell apart late in the second leg and lost 3-0. :(

2) Fiorentina's win in the late 90's, their only trophy in ages (enough said)

3) Ancora reaching the final in '94 (I think). Nothing much to add, except the final series was tied at 0-0 until the second half of the return leg, when Sampdoria finally realized they were playing a Serie B team in the final and won 6-1.

Otherwise, Milan/Juve etc. fans dont really care too much since they are used to winning much more important competitions...

[SueB]

One thing I heard on RAI is that, up to (or through?) the quarterfinals this year, teams will have the option of playing their "home" matches at another venue. This might be a popular choice for the big teams, so that you don't have 5000 fans squeezing into a cavernous Delle Alpi to see Juventus vs Cesena, or what have you.

[SueB]

Serie C1 teams Como, Acireale and Rimini have filled out the field for this year's Coppa Italia. Rimini and Acireale, the 4th place finishers in C1A and C1B last season, take the Serie C spots previously held by Bari and Pescara, who were promoted to Serie B in place of Napoli and Ancona.

Como joins Group 5. Rimini joins Group 6 and Acireale joins Group 8.

Play begins this weekend with the following games:

Group 1: Lumezzane-Torino, Empoli-Genoa
Group 2: Vicenza-Atalanta, Albinoleffe-Pro Patria
Group 3: Venezia-Treviso, Moden-Triestina
Group 4: Cesena-Livorno, Ascoli-Arezzo
Group 5: Piacenza-Fiorentina. Como-Verona will be played on Wednesday.
Group 6: Perugia-Ternana. Pescara-Rimini will be played on Wednesday
Group 7: Catania-Catanzaro, Avellino-Salernitana (in Campobasso)
Group 8: Bari-Messina. Acireale-Crotone will be played on Wednesday.

[SueB]

A Napoli court has ordered the first two games scheduled to be played by Bari and Pescara to be delayed until a court can rule on Napoli's appeal to remain in the competition. The ruling is expected to occur on Aug 25. :rolleyes:

[SueB]

Adriano Galliani has corrected the tribunal and says that the Bari and Pescara matches WILL be played as scheduled, because if Napoli were to be reinstated, it would be at the expense of Rimini or Acireale. Therefore, games involving those two teams, which aren't scheduled to start until Wednesday, could be delayed.

[SueB]

All 13 of today's games were played as scheduled. The results -

Lumezzane (C1) 1 Torino (B) 5
Empoli (B) 0 Genoa (B) 2
Vicenza (B) 2 Atalanta (A) 4
Albinoleffe (B) 2 Pro Patria (C1) 0
Venezia (B) 1 Treviso (B) 1
Modena (B) 0 Triestina (B) 1
Cesena (B) 1 Livorno (A) 1
Ascoli (B) 1 Arezzo (B) 0
Piacenza (B) 0 Fiorentina (A) 0
Perugia (B) 2 Ternana (B) 0
Catania (B) 2 Catanzaro (B) 0
Avellino (C1) 1 Salernitana (B) 3
Bari (B) 1 Messina (A) 2

No particular surprises. Four Serie A clubs were in action, all away, with Atalanta and Messina picking up wins and Livorno and Fiorentina drawing.

[Dante]

One note for Juve fans, Salernitana's goals were scored in 15 mintues by two Juve players on loan to Salernitana. 2nd minute : Benjamin; 6th minute:
Palladino; 8th minute: Benjamin

[mfw13]

Sue....the format on the Italian League website is different than the one you have posted. According to it, the eight winners from the preliminary phase have been drawn, along with 40 other teams, into 12 groups of four for the second phase. Interestingly, the teams in this second phase include AC Milan, Roma and Lazio, but Inter and Juventus are nowhere to be found.

Can you explain what is going on?

[SueB]

I'm trying to get caught up after being away for a while. Could be that something changed in my absence. Do you have a link to the information that you're seeing? I'm very curious what that is. Perhaps it's for the Primavera teams or something because I just looked at www.lega-calcio.it and am seeing 8 first-leg games scheduled for next week as I expected:

These were the group winners of the preliminary phase:-

Torino, Fiorentina, Livorno, Messina, Salernitana, Triestina, Ternana, Atalanta

Next week's games:

Wed Sept 14 - Torino vs Chievo (on RAISport at 10 am Eastern US time)
Wed Sept 15 - Fiorentina vs Brescia (on RAISport at 12 noon Eastern US time)
Also Wed: Livorno vs Lecce, Messina vs Siena, Salernitana vs Palermo, Triestina vs Cagliari, Ternana vs Bologna
Wed Sept 16 - Atalanta vs Reggina (on RAISport at 2:30 pm Eastern US time)

RAISport is available streaming on the internet at www.fastweb.it/streaming/Raisport.asx

[amaranto]

RAISport is available streaming on the internet at www.fastweb.it/streaming/Raisport.asx

Does this link only work when there is a broadcast? I just tried it and ended up with an error message. Also, is this a pay service?

Thanks for your help and the effort to keep us updated.

[SueB]

Let me try again ...

www.fastweb.it/streaming/raisport.asx

That should be better. Sorry about that. No capital R. And yes, it's free.

[amaranto]

Let me try again ...

www.fastweb.it/streaming/raisport.asx

That should be better. Sorry about that. No capital R. And yes, it's free.

Thanks! I'm marking my calendar now. That will be very cool.