Roy Lassiter

[Short Irish Guy]

I'm just saying that time should be an important factor in the "leading scorer" accomplishment.

-dave

That's a good point. It's like the home run race in baseball during the 1998 season. Most of the purists wanted to put an asterisk next to McGwire or Sosa's name if they didn't beat the record in 154 games - the maximum number Babe Ruth would have played in the early 20s.

Lassiter might have scored well over 100 goals by now but hasn't his body broken down over the years since he's moved on from D.C. United? I'd imagine he would have turned into a super sub a la Cerritos this season. I believe Cerritos scored some beautiful goals for us within 5-10 minutes of coming into the match.

I'm open for suggestions. Just throwing my two cents into the mix :)

[gnat]

Lassiter might have scored well over 100 goals by now but hasn't his body broken down over the years since he's moved on from D.C. United?
I think it was more of DC United not being able to feed balls as good as they used to (though other teams improving their defense *may* have something to do with that :rolleyes: ). His first trip through DC was during the peak of our midfield, when he came back (and "under" performed) all areas of the team had fallen on hard times and we had significant issues getting balls to a poacher like Roy. IIRC he actually had a decent stint between his rounds with United too.

[bofahey]

Or simply that the team was DELUDED by the brilliance that WAS Olsen...

I blame the front office for not realizing that Olsen was truly unique and UVA ********tards like Albright and that other UVA bust Moore (it was Moore right?)were utterly over hyped and worthless.

Albright was truly the beginning of the downfall of the DC Empire....

Sure, Olsen was involved but only because he was so damn good.
True. What's ironic is that thanks to injuries permanently changing Olsen as a player and Albright getting better after his change of scenery, Albright is now getting capped by Arena pretty frequently at RB while Olsen seems permanently out of the mix. Who would have predicted that 4 years ago?

[Cantankerous]

Aside from missing time due to injuries - Kreis also played as a midfielder during a significant part of his early career. Kreis also scores beautiful goals fairly consistantly. Its hard not to respect Jason Kreis.And much as I hate to say this about a Burn player, he's a pretty nice fellow. Very pleasant and friendly. A good advertisement for the league and the calibre of its stars.

OK, that's it. Enough Burn love. Must...think...Chad...Deering...

[Th4119]

True. What's ironic is that thanks to injuries permanently changing Olsen as a player and Albright getting better after his change of scenery, Albright is now getting capped by Arena pretty frequently at RB while Olsen seems permanently out of the mix. Who would have predicted that 4 years ago?

Maybe seeing his best friend getting capped over him which never happened before is just the spark in the a$$ Olsen needs to really try and elevate his game to the level it once was.

[Sundevil9]

My only point was that Roy reached his mark in fewer games/seasons and I believe that should be taken into account. Otherwise (supposing he starts scoring consistently) no one will likely ever beat Freddy IF he stayed in MLS for his entire career. I'm just saying that time should be an important factor in the "leading scorer" accomplishment.

-dave

I think that that philosophy leaves you open to the "flash in the pan". That's why the single season stats are kept.

As an example, JR Richards was a pitcher for the Houston Astros in the late 70's. He was getting over 300 strikeouts a season, on par with Nolan Ryan and Steve Carlton (the big aces of the time), does anyone remember him (other than me?) no not really. Why? Because in 1980, he suffered a stroke at age 30. You've got to figure that the guy had another 5-8 years in him....that would be 1500 to 2400 more strikeouts at that rate.

With those numbers, he'd be in the hall of fame, instead he's homeless or somthing right now.

He had three stellar years on par with really great pitchers, but he coudn't hang around long enough to make such an impression.

There's a lot to be said of a consistant player year in and year out. Kreis is that guy that rarely leads the league, but he's always there in the top ten.

[Atouk]

Aside from missing time due to injuries - Kreis also played as a midfielder during a significant part of his early career.What time missed due to injuries? It's just not true, except in 2003. It doesn't diminish his accomplishments, but let's not create a myth that he had to fight through loads of injuries in racking up his numbers.

Kreis played in 31 of 32 in '96, 32 of 32 in '97, 30 of 32 in '98, 32 of 32 in '99, 27 of 32 in '00, 25 of 26 in '01, 27 of 28 in '02 (I mistakenly put 25 in my previous post). That's 204 of 214 Dallas Burn regular season games over the first seven years of the league -- 95.3%.

According to his page at MLSnet.com, regarding 2000, he "Missed five games on the year due to commitments with the U.S. National Team." In 1998, he "Did not play in only two games all season; 4/25 vs. Kansas City due to a red card in the previous game and 9/2 @ Los Angeles due to yellow card points."

So, in seven years, he missed 10 games, at least five due to national team duty and at least two for disciplinary reasons. At most he missed three regular season games due to injury in 7 years.

Yeah, he only played in 18 of 30 last year, but it's not like the guy has lost significant time over his career -- 222 of 244 possible regular season games played -- 90.9%.

[garbaggio]

Yeah, he only played in 18 of 30 last year, but it's not like the guy has lost significant time over his career -- 222 of 244 possible regular season games played -- 90.9%.

Atouk is right.

Jason Kreis is among MLS' all-time leaders in minutes played. Before this season began he had 18,587 minutes played. I found only 6 players with more minutes: Ralston, Chung, Preki, Henderson, Richie Williams and Mike Clark.

Roy Lassiter had 88 goals in 13,769 minutes giving him a strike rate of 1 goal per 156.5 minutes played.

Jason Kreis with 86 goals in 18,587 minutes had a strike rate of 1 goal per 216.1 minutes played.

You can make reasonable arguments that Kreis is a better all around player than Roy Lassiter. But you can't really argue that his goal scoring stats have been significantly curtailed by injuries.

[Liverpool_SC]

What time missed due to injuries? It's just not true, except in 2003. It doesn't diminish his accomplishments, but let's not create a myth that he had to fight through loads of injuries in racking up his numbers.

Sorry. I was just following up on a previous post (note the aside from). The main point of my post was not lost playing time. It was playing in a different role. Playing frequently in a midfield position has a much different effect on scoring rates than missing a few minutes or even games here or there. And when Kreis first started his MLS career - guys like Hugo Sanchez, Gerell Elliott, Damian, Dante Washington, Mickey Trotman, Arial Graziani and others were getting a lot of the minutes in the more advanced roles.

In fact, it wasn't until 2001 that Jason Kreis began being listed as a forward, even though he had played minutes there long before that.

In any league in the world, a guy who plays a considerable amount of time in midfield and possesses the strike rate that Kreis possesses is pretty incredible.

[Lanky134]

What time missed due to injuries? It's just not true, except in 2003. It doesn't diminish his accomplishments, but let's not create a myth that he had to fight through loads of injuries in racking up his numbers.

Kreis played in 31 of 32 in '96, 32 of 32 in '97, 30 of 32 in '98, 32 of 32 in '99, 27 of 32 in '00, 25 of 26 in '01, 27 of 28 in '02 (I mistakenly put 25 in my previous post). That's 204 of 214 Dallas Burn regular season games over the first seven years of the league -- 95.3%.

According to his page at MLSnet.com, regarding 2000, he "Missed five games on the year due to commitments with the U.S. National Team." In 1998, he "Did not play in only two games all season; 4/25 vs. Kansas City due to a red card in the previous game and 9/2 @ Los Angeles due to yellow card points."

So, in seven years, he missed 10 games, at least five due to national team duty and at least two for disciplinary reasons. At most he missed three regular season games due to injury in 7 years.

Yeah, he only played in 18 of 30 last year, but it's not like the guy has lost significant time over his career -- 222 of 244 possible regular season games played -- 90.9%.

Can we get a stat on how many of Lassiter's and Kreis' goals were scored when MLS' top defenders and keepers were away on national team duty? :D

[Richbon]

After seeing the game today, I was reminded of this thread about Lassiter. Those were two very Lassiteresque goals from Eski today - and I mean that in a complimentary way. Well timed runs that beat his marker and good finishing. Although it's hard to miss from those spots. Although I bet Convey would find a way...

[DutchFootballRulez]

No...Earnie scored, Convey would've too..too bad the ref was a wanker.

[coresport]

played with Dario Brose then and they were a great combination. I was responsible for marking Roy. He did nothing the whole game and then he got me in the open field one on one. I was pretty fast but he blew past me like I was nothing and scored a 1 on 1 goal with the keeper. His speed was absolutely amazing. He was built like a world class sprinter. He like I was nothing and scored a 1 on 1 goal with the keeper. His speed was absolutely amazing. He was built like a world class sprinter. He 5{e!

I heard he became a "born again" Christian after he graduated from NC State and had a great testimony.[/QUOTE]
I played w/Roy at College of Charleston (pre N.C. State transfer) he got arrested and thrown out of school for stealing. I don't know what all this "nice guy" and "class act" talk is about...

[Lanky134]

After seeing the game today, I was reminded of this thread about Lassiter. Those were two very Lassiteresque goals from Eski today -

You mean because he was offside on one of them?

and I mean that in a complimentary way.

Oh.

Never mind.

[Eliezar]

This was way back in the day but we played NC State in the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament and Roy played for NC State. He played with Dario Brose then and they were a great combination. I was responsible for marking Roy. He did nothing the whole game and then he got me in the open field one on one. I was pretty fast but he blew past me like I was nothing and scored a 1 on 1 goal with the keeper. His speed was absolutely amazing. He was built like a world class sprinter. He was a pure athlete!

I heard he became a "born again" Christian after he graduated from NC State and had a great testimony.

And then got into legal troubles while in Costa Rica of a serious nature if I remember! 8( But I think they may have been in the US and delayed his return to join the league, someone probably remembers.

[mcontento]

After seeing the game today, I was reminded of this thread about Lassiter. Those were two very Lassiteresque goals from Eski today - and I mean that in a complimentary way. Well timed runs that beat his marker and good finishing. Although it's hard to miss from those spots. Although I bet Convey would find a way...

Couldn't agree more. They were classic Rocket Roy goals off feeds from Jaime.

[the101er]

Roy went through a period in his career when for some reason he was the MLS trade whipping boy. Someone listed earlier in this thread some of the trades he was involved in, but that doesn't really cover the whole situation. MLS basically told Roy where he was going to play and if he didn't like it, stuff it. I think one year in Florida he sat out most of a preseason.

In 1998, at the height of his game, he was excluded from the US National team that went to France. He had had an injury a few months before, but was really tearing it up, just before Sampson (ex Costa Rica) decided not to include him. The rest is history.

Its good to see that a nice guy like that is still playing and must still love the game to be playing in Laredo. I remember him commenting in an interview one time that all he worked on was scoring goals. That was his job and that was what he practiced.

[Renegade]

I watched the third match against Columbus 1999 playoffs. Everyone should watch that one before they bash Roy's first touch. It was great. Also he was in a drought but had 15 goals before that game.

The second goal was great the postioning and running into space was the best ever, and the heading down on the run to beat the defender on the first goal was a thing of beauty. Of course the open goal header he missed for the hat trick was sad, but how much can one guy do in one match?

[Cantankerous]

I watched the third match against Columbus 1999 playoffs. Everyone should watch that one before they bash Roy's first touch. It was great. Also he was in a drought but had 15 goals before that game.

The second goal was great the postioning and running into space was the best ever, and the heading down on the run to beat the defender on the first goal was a thing of beauty. Of course the open goal header he missed for the hat trick was sad, but how much can one guy do in one match?
Hmmmm, there's a phrase that's coming to mind.

Something that begins with "Even a blind pig..."

Look, I'm a fan of Roy's, and forever grateful for all he did for our team, but apart from the match you mention above and a few other exceptions, he had an atrocious first touch. He was our real 'Feet of Stone', no Tony.

He had tremendous pace, and was great at running into space behind defenders. He was offside half the time, but he had other players around him who could provide him with sublime service. Having soft feet was not one of his assets.