It is quite clear Fergie is trying to emulate 1999! / Rooney v Cantona

[Dark Savante]

Expect us to attack like savages in a 4-4-2 all of next season folks.

Fergie wants 4 strikers all with different attributes and 'the versatile one' to rotate all of next season.

Gilardino, Torres, Rooney..what do they all have in common? All are young prodigies that are hungry, aggressive and as yet unmoulded. It is obvious he'll take any one of the 3 before the season begins. And by spening huge money on one of these guys and not buying cover for Keane it lends itself to idea we are going to blitzcrieg all in our way next season - you score 2 we score 3 - I like how this is looking. No more of the stupid 4-5-1 which stifles our style of play and no more over reliance on Ruud! I just wonder how Ruud will respond to competition, he looks like a sulker to me, I can't imagine a fully fit Ruud being happy at spending a minute on the bench myself.

Anyways The skank tabloid 'The Sun' has us as making a 22million bid for Rooney. Regardless of whether this is true or not, it forces us into responding and it'll also start the bidding war with you know who. As I said before I believe we have way more chance of bagging Rooney than 'they' do, becuase he is young, local and family members he is close to have suggested O.T to him. I think the final sale will be 25mill plus 2 of our players or, 30mill cash. I just hope this isn't Ronaldinho Saga II.

If we fail with Rooney it will be onto Torres and Gilardino in a hard way. It's clear Fergie wants blood, attack and passion. We're gonna be a fercious outfit next season win, lose or draw!

If we do bag Rooney watch how many goals Paul Scholes will score! He'll be in his element as teams focus their attention elsewhere. With Rooney I'd expect Scholes to bag 20goals or more next season - 2nd only to Ruud.

1999 here we come! ATTACK ON MY COMMAND! :D

*Looks like Keano is going to be given this season to prove he's still got it, cos the Gerrard situation looks to have gone to 'them' and in a way it could turn out to be a good thing for us to snap up the youngest of talents and wait to see if Keane really is a spent force or not, we certainly owe him that much.

[Dark Savante]

No More Rooney United Bets
NO MORE ROONEY UNITED BETS, THANK YOU.........After taking scores of bets for Wayne Rooney to join Manchester United by the first day of the next Premiership season - and none for him to stay at Everton or join the likes of Chelsea and Real Madrid, William Hill have decided to suspend the book on Wayne's world, at least for the time being. 'We have been inundated with bets - and rumours - from London to Liverpool, from Cleethorpes to Manchester. And they haven't been just fivers and tenners but hundreds, two hundreds and even three hundreds. The final straw was a sequence of six bets - twenty,fifty, a hundred, fifty and another hundred - in the space of a few minutes at a branch in Manchester called Newton Heath - which, of course, was Manchester United's original name. We took that as an omen and suspended the book pending further news!'
When the book closed Hills were offering 6/5 Everton; 6/4 Cheslea; 3/1 Man U; 33/1 Real Madrid; 20/1 any other club.

Further information.....Graham Sharpe...0208 918 3731

http://www.williamhillmedia.com/ind...e.asp?file=3279

[johno]

I really dont think we should overspend for another striker... Ruud, Saha, Smith, OGS, Scholes... thats enough variety for me thanks... in Ruud and Saha we have 2 [bold]clearly[bold/] superiour strikers who should work well together and we did not necessarily have that in 99... many people favored Yorke and Cole, but who could doubt Terry and Ole??? I think the 4 we have now are perfect we have a clear number 1 and a clear number 2 who if he cannot gell or just to rotate we can add in either Ole or Smith who should both be comfortable in reserve roles... I like Saha to lead the attack when Ruud rests and Smith to play as his partner and Ole to be used almost strictly off the bench where he is superb or in the RW position to spell Ronaldo..

[prk166]

Gilardino is soooooooooooo tempting.

[Acronym]

Well Rooney would put the ********s up a lot of teams. Probably get one 'big' name this summer. Gerrard or Rooney Torres-- something like this.

[Sinter]

heard we offered parma about the same for gilardino as we offered for rooney

[Dark Savante]

I really dont think we should overspend for another striker...

You have to look at it as a 7-10 year investment. It's obvious Fergie is trying to future proof by buying a teen sensation rather then a 20something who is already fully proven. Believe me, if we get any of the aforementioned 3 and keep Ruud and Saha we are not and will have no need to purchase another forward for at least 4yrs.


Ruud, Saha, Smith, OGS, Scholes... thats enough variety for me thanks...

But this is easily dissected, and then it's not enough. Ole may not even be at the club next season and if he is he'll be RM. I think his CF days are over with that loss of sudden pace in the box. He still anticpates things but now his legs defy him and he gets shut down alot more. Smith- totally unprovenn entity - he brings heart to the team- after that it's anyone guess how he'll turn out. Scholes' ineviatable hernia trouble and the need to rest mid-season also you're not going to tell me you think Smith is worthy cover for Scholes's position are you??? That leaves us with 2 CF's one Scholes a RM who will be a utility forward at best and Smith...There is plenty of room for a player like Rooney, of that list there is only 1player of his type there (Scholes) and Rooney's style is polaric. Scholes is a ghost#8, Rooney is a #10 i.e 'yes you see me with the ball, come get it I'm ready!' We have no player in the middle that can do this or is ready to do so, so I think there is every need for #10 type.


in Ruud and Saha we have 2 [bold]clearly[bold/] superiour strikers who should work well together and we did not necessarily have that in 99... many people favored Yorke and Cole,

:confused: you've lost me here. Cole and Yorke were the best strike force as a combination United have ever seen. Cole as an individual isn't the equal of Ruud or Saha but as a partner in crime their tally won't be matched by Ruud and Saha, not a chance. Ruud is far to selfish to share (he only passed to Scholes when in possible goal scoring positions last season) and Saha is a #9 also and wants to score goals, not supply them. 2 #9's will never eclispe a #10 #9 partnership. I'll bet with you on this right now and we can see at the end of next season who was right.


but who could doubt Terry and Ole???

Teddy was a #10(see my Rooney point) and Ole was physically peaking in '99 he cannot do what he did then anymore.


I think the 4 we have now are perfect we have a clear number 1 and a clear number 2 who if he cannot gell or just to rotate we can add in either Ole or Smith who should both be comfortable in reserve roles...

See my points about Ole above. You're expecting to much from him and he's definitely not a #10 at no point has he proven to be the perfect foil for a #9 in terms of a supply line - maybe as an in-the-box decoy - but that's not enough and certainly not Smith. We have no striker who can slot a thru ball through a crowded defence - hence the need for a #10.


I like Saha to lead the attack when Ruud rests and Smith to play as his partner and Ole to be used almost strictly off the bench where he is superb or in the RW position to spell Ronaldo..
You're expecting more of Smith then will be delivered. He's good in the air highly spirited, but after that he has no outstanding attribute and he is erratic. Also, he, as an Ex-Leeds player is going to 'try to hard' to impress and take until at least Christmas to calm down and find his feet. He has more pressure on him then Rooney would. There's no assurance he can/will cope with it.


We still lack a #10 and it's obvious why Fergie is trying to land one this summer. I think that Chelsea have forced Fergie to make the choice: either concede defeat over Gerrard, go for a 'we will score more than you' method, get our offense right and gamble on the defence coming good in the 4-4-2. Or the unlikely secnario of us landing Gerrard and sitting on the forwards we have (which I see as highly unlikely - even if we dont get Rooney, Fergie WILL go after another forward) Our hand is being forced towards offense and in this instance Fergie wants to have all the components neccessary to opress teams from every conceivable angle.We need a #10

[Dark Savante]

heard we offered parma about the same for gilardino as we offered for rooney
Yep, Fergie really is not fussed. Any one of the 3 will do. I think Rooney is the preference though because he knows what the EPL is about, speaks English(allegedly :) ) and wont have any culture shock or issues with the Mancunian climate(Rain, rain, rain, rain)

[musicl]

British weather is brilliant. All the stuff about it rains all the time is false.

[johno]

You have to look at it as a 7-10 year investment. It's obvious Fergie is trying to future proof by buying a teen sensation rather then a 20something who is already fully proven. Believe me, if we get any of the aforementioned 3 and keep Ruud and Saha we are not and will have no need to purchase another forward for at least 4yrs.


When we need a bloody winger or two right now how can u justify the purchase of yet another striker..


But this is easily dissected, and then it's not enough. Ole may not even be at the club next season and if he is he'll be RM. I think his CF days are over with that loss of sudden pace in the box. He still anticpates things but now his legs defy him and he gets shut down alot more. Smith- totally unprovenn entity - he brings heart to the team- after that it's anyone guess how he'll turn out. Scholes' ineviatable hernia trouble and the need to rest mid-season also you're not going to tell me you think Smith is worthy cover for Scholes's position are you??? That leaves us with 2 CF's one Scholes a RM who will be a utility forward at best and Smith...There is plenty of room for a player like Rooney, of that list there is only 1player of his type there (Scholes) and Rooney's style is polaric. Scholes is a ghost#8, Rooney is a #10 i.e 'yes you see me with the ball, come get it I'm ready!' We have no player in the middle that can do this or is ready to do so, so I think there is every need for #10 type.

You cannot justify having to buy another striker because you sell one... no.. OGS will still be an excellent sub and stop gap Forward - his finishing inside the box is still unbelievable. Smith might not be worthy cover for Scholes' position but Kleberson sure as hell is. Rooney is not a bloody #10, he is just a strong forward who can dribble a bit... he is a decent passer but not really a table setter/playmaker. You cannot expect the team to have 4 strikers who we can depend on to be our match winners and to be of the quality to be able to start every game and be successful.. that is really not realistic.



:confused: you've lost me here. Cole and Yorke were the best strike force as a combination United have ever seen. Cole as an individual isn't the equal of Ruud or Saha but as a partner in crime their tally won't be matched by Ruud and Saha, not a chance. Ruud is far to selfish to share (he only passed to Scholes when in possible goal scoring positions last season) and Saha is a #9 also and wants to score goals, not supply them. 2 #9's will never eclispe a #10 #9 partnership. I'll bet with you on this right now and we can see at the end of next season who was right.


Saha played withdrawn for France in the little time he got.. and he made an impact that way... he has the ability to do it.. it was just unseen at Fulham due to their lack of depth and his superior finishing skills... his dribbling and passing are good and you will see him in action next season at his best. A #10 would be best used behind these 2 strikers - we have Kleberson and Ronaldo who can both be that creative force, running at defenders and making great passes if u really want a number 10. In which case, by a bloody winger or two and play Ronaldo sometimes behind the 2 strikers, or as withdrawn striker on occasion. Do not forget that we have Ruud who is phenomenal and he paired with anyone of our current strikers would be a good pairing, excellent when paired with Saha, good when paired w/ Ole and Smith and remember that wont


Teddy was a #10(see my Rooney point) and Ole was physically peaking in '99 he cannot do what he did then anymore.


Ole will not be required to do very much... just add depth and keep our top 2 strikers from getting too worn out by relieving them from playing the full 90 every time and occasionally starting ahead of either of them. Say we rest Ruud... and play Saha and OGS, in a game like this - Scholes becomes very important and he will have to create chances for himself and the forwards although Saha can create for himself and also create for OGS by dribbling but mostly by winning headers.



See my points about Ole above. You're expecting to much from him and he's definitely not a #10 at no point has he proven to be the perfect foil for a #9 in terms of a supply line - maybe as an in-the-box decoy - but that's not enough and certainly not Smith. We have no striker who can slot a thru ball through a crowded defence - hence the need for a #10.


A striker does not have to do that, it can come from the midfield via Scholes, Giggs or Ronaldo, or even Gerrard :) . Also, with Ruud and Saha paired up there is no team that has 2 centerbacks strong enough and fast enough to deal with both Ruud and Saha for 90 minutes. Full backs cant help because of Ronaldo and Giggs and Scholes is there for scraps... the space that Ronaldo will create by being on the wing will be vital to Ruud and Saha both getting breathing room... but if u mean we should have a player in midfield who can play a great thru ball through 8 defenders in the box to another player then there are very, very few people who can do that... Ronnaldinho, Zidane, Totti and not many more... Rooney is most definately not one of them...


You're expecting more of Smith then will be delivered. He's good in the air highly spirited, but after that he has no outstanding attribute and he is erratic. Also, he, as an Ex-Leeds player is going to 'try to hard' to impress and take until at least Christmas to calm down and find his feet. He has more pressure on him then Rooney would. There's no assurance he can/will cope with it.

Smith will have more pressure on him than Rooney? WTF, you my friend are as wrong as you can possibly be... Rooney, England's wonderboy, who has dissapointed at club level but shined internationally moving to the best club and most watched club in the world and he wont be under tons of pressure? Less than Smith who came from a team that battled relegation? Who has no record of being a sensational player, of whom relatively little will be expected? He will be under more pressure than Rooney???? Come again.



We still lack a #10 and it's obvious why Fergie is trying to land one this summer. I think that Chelsea have forced Fergie to make the choice: either concede defeat over Gerrard, go for a 'we will score more than you' method, get our offense right and gamble on the defence coming good in the 4-4-2. Or the unlikely secnario of us landing Gerrard and sitting on the forwards we have (which I see as highly unlikely - even if we dont get Rooney, Fergie WILL go after another forward) Our hand is being forced towards offense and in this instance Fergie wants to have all the components neccessary to opress teams from every conceivable angle.We need a #10

Scholes has been the most important part of our offense for awhile now... Scoring goals and creating them as well, his role is going to change now because??? I guess wingers are not "neccessary components" then, because we have 2 Giggs and Ronaldo... if we would just buy another winger or two then we could use Ronaldo as that #10, he would be far better than Rooney in that capacity who with his burlesque style of play will often get injured and worn out over a season.

No matter how elloquent your argument becomes, you won't convince me that we need more striking cover than Ruud, Saha, OGS, Smith, Bellion etc. when all we have on the wings is Giggs and Ronaldo - that is just nonsense... if we spend 20 million it should be on Joaquin, or Vicente or Luque - that would make is very strong in all the "necessary" areas.

[Acronym]

It does rain a lot I live there. Summer begins and ends in May.

[Dark Savante]

Let's get started then shall we :)

When we need a bloody winger or two right now how can u justify the purchase of yet another striker..

What wingers would you suggest are out there for a good price that are of a quality just under or on par with Giggs? The right side is covered by Ole, Smith and Ronaldo. Richardson and Bellion will be blooded this season, so who do you suggest? Vicente? There aren't many top tier LW out there and I believe whenever Giggs' is out we'll see Ronaldo or Richardson in for him on that flank. We could of course go the Houllier route and purchase a mega cheap and unstable guy from Scandinavia, if that's what you want us to do?


You cannot justify having to buy another striker because you sell one... no.. OGS will still be an excellent sub and stop gap Forward - his finishing inside the box is still unbelievable. Smith might not be worthy cover for Scholes' position but Kleberson sure as hell is. Rooney is not a bloody #10, he is just a strong forward who can dribble a bit... he is a decent passer but not really a table setter/playmaker. You cannot expect the team to have 4 strikers who we can depend on to be our match winners and to be of the quality to be able to start every game and be successful.. that is really not realistic.

I disagree about Solskjaer. He doesn't look to have that magic he had in the past. Rooney is a #10 of course he is. What do you think he's being doing for England all through the Euro's ??? also did you not watch the '99 season??? it's not like this(4strikers) has not been done before yanno..


Saha played withdrawn for France in the little time he got.. and he made an impact that way... he has the ability to do it.. it was just unseen at Fulham due to their lack of depth and his superior finishing skills... his dribbling and passing are good and you will see him in action next season at his best. A #10 would be best used behind these 2 strikers - we have Kleberson and Ronaldo who can both be that creative force, running at defenders and making great passes if u really want a number 10. In which case, by a bloody winger or two and play Ronaldo sometimes behind the 2 strikers, or as withdrawn striker on occasion. Do not forget that we have Ruud who is phenomenal and he paired with anyone of our current strikers would be a good pairing, excellent when paired with Saha, good when paired w/ Ole and Smith and remember that wont

Hmm do the names Cantona, Sheringham and Yorke mean anything to you?? do you not think all of them were #10's ??? Forget about the number on their back and look at where they played on the pitch and what they did for United. Saha is not the man you want for that role, that's a waste of his game btw. As for Kleberson, that's a mystery.. who knows what the deal is gonna be with him. I don't think, personally he's the man to play up top next to Ruud in a 4-4-2 withdrawn role. And also it is obvious Ruud likes, no loves to lead a line on his own(selfish and rightfully so). I'm sure he and Saha will not compliment each other well without some compromise on Ruud's behalf, which would take away half f Ruud's selfish, but effective game. Someone feeding him the ball and dropping deep is the perfect foil not someone who will be in his way. The problem with Saha is he played Ruud's role at Fulham and he will take up positions that will hinder Ruud, imo, of course. You may see it differently, I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm proved wrong with this if those two line up together. There is no such issues if a #10 plays



Ole will not be required to do very much... just add depth and keep our top 2 strikers from getting too worn out by relieving them from playing the full 90 every time and occasionally starting ahead of either of them. Say we rest Ruud... and play Saha and OGS, in a game like this - Scholes becomes very important and he will have to create chances for himself and the forwards although Saha can create for himself and also create for OGS by dribbling but mostly by winning headers.

You're still working under the assumption that Solskjaer will be employed as a forward(if he's still here) I beieve his playing time up front will be minimal.


A striker does not have to do that, it can come from the midfield via Scholes, Giggs or Ronaldo, or even Gerrard .

Giggs never slots that type of ball nor has Ronaldo to date. Gerrard is not coming and Scholes is not enough. 1 player in the team that can slot a thru ball :( come on dude that's archaic


Also, with Ruud and Saha paired up there is no team that has 2 centerbacks strong enough and fast enough to deal with both Ruud and Saha for 90 minutes. Full backs cant help because of Ronaldo and Giggs and Scholes is there for scraps... the space that Ronaldo will create by being on the wing will be vital to Ruud and Saha both getting breathing room... but if u mean we should have a player in midfield who can play a great thru ball through 8 defenders in the box to another player then there are very, very few people who can do that... Ronnaldinho, Zidane, Totti and not many more... Rooney is most definately not one of them...


I don't really buy this Saha + Ruud terrorisation theory you have.
Rooney displays the potential and has the vision to do the job. 'Most definitely not' is way off, agaiin did you not see some of the balls he put Owen thru on? He's done it a few times at Everton also, but their guys have failed to convert. It does not change the fact.


Smith will have more pressure on him than Rooney? WTF, you my friend are as wrong as you can possibly be... Rooney, England's wonderboy, who has dissapointed at club level but shined internationally moving to the best club and most watched club in the world and he wont be under tons of pressure? Less than Smith who came from a team that battled relegation? Who has no record of being a sensational player, of whom relatively little will be expected? He will be under more pressure than Rooney???? Come again.

Smith is from Leeds. That is all that needs to be said. People hate him right now just for that fact. He has it all to do to win over half of O.T. Rooney will be applauded for every mistake and given a whole lot of time to fit in. Smith may well be derided after a handful of poor performances. Trust me on this one. The pressure on Smith goes way beyond football. Rio is/was a different case as he only played for Leeds as an employee, same as Cantona. Smith is a born and bred Yorkshire lad. cue hatrid!


Scholes has been the most important part of our offense for awhile now... Scoring goals and creating them as well, his role is going to change now because???


Because he'll be dropped back to deep midfield alongside Keane and will have to make his runs accordingly cos Keane is not the man he was. So Scholes will have to look back a whole lot more then he did in the past. IF a #10 is on the pitch linking the midfield Scholes will have a bigger licence to roam then if he has two #9's on the shoulders of both CB's for the majority of the game.



I guess wingers are not "neccessary components" then, because we have 2 Giggs and Ronaldo... if we would just buy another winger or two then we could use Ronaldo as that #10, he would be far better than Rooney in that capacity who with his burlesque style of play will often get injured and worn out over a season.

lol, methinks you don't like 'our Wayne' is all! Ronaldo is most certainly a viable and favorable player for the middle of the park. I''ve said as much myself in threads I actually created, but for now and unless we can get a magical wide man he helps the team more by being out wide because he will force one whole side of the pitch back and open the field more for those infield to roam into the spaces he provides/creates. The only way Fergie would try Ronaldo in the middle is if we got a Joaquin or someone of that ilk to slot into the RW position. I can't see that happening and especially not for the fee a Joaquin would command. As for getting injured, maybe, worn out? No chance, not with a 4striker rotation in Fergies wise old hands.


No matter how elloquent your argument becomes, you won't convince me that we need more striking cover than Ruud, Saha, OGS, Smith, Bellion etc. when all we have on the wings is Giggs and Ronaldo - that is just nonsense... if we spend 20 million it should be on Joaquin, or Vicente or Luque - that would make is very strong in all the "necessary" areas.
You didn't just say Luque did you? That's quite a drop from the other two you mentioned. If you don't want convincing then you wouldn't post up. Who knows who is right anyways? We'll see how it all unfolds thru the close season and thru until May 2005.

[tmaker]

Last I checked, DS, the #10 meant the inside left, i.e., the attacking midfielder. At least that's the historical use of the term. So you confused me a bit for a second there, till I realized you meant the Pele #10, not the Maradona #10.

At any rate, Rooney would never be a #10 at Man U. And as much as you'd like to think, he didn't play that role for England in the Euro, either. He simply does not provide service often enough or well enough for a #10. RvN wouldn't consent to playing behind him in any sort of withdrawn role, since he's primarily a poacher of goals (Smith is similar) and isn't about to provide service; nor, I think, is Rooney going to provide service the other direction.

I quite agree with mtkillamanjohno. The Red Devils are by far weakest in the midfield. While you're correct about OGS losing some pace, this is hardly an issue in a more central midfield role, where, like you, I suspect SAF will put him. Although I think Ronaldo has a long way to go, he's certainly more of a #10 midfielder than Rooney will ever be. He can dribble, he can pass, and he'll learn to be a better playmaker soon enough.

To deny the Yorke and Cole combination as the best in my life I've seen is saying something. There isn't a combination on the EPL pitch, certainly not at Man U right now, that holds a candle to them. And if there were Rooney wouldn't be part of it. He'd need a forward like Totti to have any combination skill at all, and neither RvN, Saha nor Smith are such.

Of course, if you're inclined to play four forwards, you'd better have an absolutely commanding midfield. The truth is, Man U don't. A team that has a fast counterattack off a long ball will murder them if they play 4-2-4. You're better off plucking one of Chelsea's too numerous midfield players.

[haven]

I agree with just about everything Dark Savante said.

With Ruud and Saha, we have two goal scorers. OGS is unlikely to ever be good enough again, and Smith isn't really a striker. We can't play 4-4-2 at the level we want, with what we've got.

[johno]

Ok, this is my last lengthy reply, i wont analyze each quote, but i will address specifics..

Vicente, Luque, Joaquin (move ronaldo to left) Van der Meyde, Jorghenson and there are others that we may not know of.

u keep saying if Ole is here next season... bloody keep him is what I say, so there is no point suggesting he might be leaving because part of our strategy w/ strikers is to have him - thats what i am assuming and i am allowed to do so as its my idea..

I am not saying that strikers cannot be #10's but I am saying that you do not need a #10 forward/striker on every team. for instance AC Milan perhaps the best team in the world last year played much of the year with Pippo and Sheva up front... are either of them a 10? Doubt it... so that is just proof that u can have a successful team without a number 10.

Implying Saha cannot play the withdrawn role or be a good partner for Ruud is pointless when all he has done since he came was boost the teams goal out put enormously when both he and Ruud played together... actually he will be an excellent foil for Ruud because he can flick on headers to him... 1 he is very very fast so we will see less of Ruud - oft times isolated out on the wing chasing a ball or trying to find some space. Saha is a decent crosser, but more importantly a powerfull shooter from distance with both feet something Ruud does not have allowing him to play deeper and still be effective without being in Ruud's way. We must however give the pair at least 10 games together before we can see if their partnership will work well enough... anyway... the indvidual talent of either of them grossly outweighs the talent of all our 99 strikers in most areas except perhaps Dwight (vision) and OGS (finishing in the box -he was imo the world's best finisher)

Your point about a number 10 on the pitch plus Scholes makes little sense, why would Scholes be able to roam more? Keane would still be less a man than he was before, or however u put it. Most number 10's cannot tackle so they would not really help in that manner.

No, I did not see some of the balls he played to Owen... I saw maybe 3 inventive passes... but mostly I saw alot of powerful runs, with disregard in the main to other players on the team making runs and alot of careless losing of the ball... of course he was greatly appreciated because England was playing so poorly that he was often their only weapon in attack.. however true #10's would have gotten Owen a goal in 4 matches... guaranteed... he is fast, good control and good finishing... a decent number 10 would have found him Rooney rarely did so, certainly nothing to be of note as far as passes go except 1 good pass to Scholes, which was really a no brainer, but it set up a shot.

I will say again, but if u dont believe me set up a poll and ask who will have more pressure on them Rooney at ManU or Smith... easy... Rooney, who has been compared to Pele...

the Gerrard bit was a joke... Kleberson is a great passer... and if Ronaldo was employed in the middle u might see a bit more of his passing especially with the addition of Saha who is more inclined to make runs off the ball than Ruud who is mainly a back to the goal striker (i said mainly and I recognize the mans dribbling, pace and amazing control - that chest down yesterday was sick!!!)

Wayne is an unbelievable player, as i have said... however i maintain that he is surplus to our needs... we have a shortage of wingers and acquiring one is vital.. if we spend our money on that Ronaldo could be used to supplement the strikers when necessary.

We survived with just Ruud and Forlan for awhile.. surely w/ Ruud, Saha, Smith and OGS with improved wingplay due to Ronaldo we can do better than in the past..

Ok... Luque is not the same quality of winger as the previous 2 mentioned, but what he lacks in the skills a traditional winger has he makes up for in finishing and long range shooting!!! in a Nedved kind of way (no... i am not saying he is as good as Nedved, in fact forget i typed it..)

[Dark Savante]

Last I checked, DS, the #10 meant the inside left, i.e., the attacking midfielder. At least that's the historical use of the term.

That depends on what countries system you refer to. Typically your #10 is the most creative player on your team playing either OM or Supp/Stri.


So you confused me a bit for a second there, till I realized you meant the Pele #10, not the Maradona #10.

?? Both the players you refer to played both the OM role and the Supp Stri role. I think I get your meaning tho.


At any rate, Rooney would never be a #10 at Man U. And as much as you'd like to think, he didn't play that role for England in the Euro, either. He simply does not provide service often enough or well enough for a #10.

Rooney was the link between the midfield and the attack for the entire duration of Euro 2004 this would suggest you are wrong. He was often so deep that his tracking CB did not know what to do and he drew the opposition DM out of position also. This is excellent 10manship(c) lol


RvN wouldn't consent to playing behind him in any sort of withdrawn role, since he's primarily a poacher of goals (Smith is similar) and isn't about to provide service; nor, I think, is Rooney going to provide service the other direction.

Just because you're a #10 it doesn't mean your primary function should be to supply others with goals. Rooney is not an Aimar or a Ronaldinho he takes far more shots then them and plays the role in a forceful manner. It does not mean he cannot link play and draw CB's out of position for Ruud to exploit the holes. At no time did I suggest Ruud playing behind him :confused: I don't know where you got that from. My point was that Ruud is far too selfish to play alongside another #9 even at PSV Luc Nilis a #10 supplied and distracted the opposition whilst Ruud stayed further forward and caused chaos.



I quite agree with mtkillamanjohno. The Red Devils are by far weakest in the midfield. While you're correct about OGS losing some pace, this is hardly an issue in a more central midfield role, where, like you, I suspect SAF will put him. Although I think Ronaldo has a long way to go, he's certainly more of a #10 midfielder than Rooney will ever be. He can dribble, he can pass, and he'll learn to be a better playmaker soon enough.

Ronaldo isn't more of a #10 he'd be a different type of #10 so far Ronaldo hasn't displayed the ability to play an incisive forward defence splitting pass, Rooney has. I'm not saying it's not in Ronaldo's repoirtoire as he may well display this skill in the future..but in terms of vision and awareness of the field Rooney is miles ahead of Ronaldo. Rooney's head is always up, he is fully aware and at total ease with his surroundings and most importantly he knows when to play the correct ball. Man Utd only have Scholes that can do that currently and it is an issue Fergie has tried to address in the very recent past..


To deny the Yorke and Cole combination as the best in my life I've seen is saying something. There isn't a combination on the EPL pitch, certainly not at Man U right now, that holds a candle to them. And if there were Rooney wouldn't be part of it. He'd need a forward like Totti to have any combination skill at all, and neither RvN, Saha nor Smith are such.

I haven't seen any partnership or potential partnership that will match what Yorke and Cole did. The 90's Juve, Inzaghi-Del Piero partnership is the only one in recent memory that i'd put on par with what Y&C did. Rooney is not a prolific scorer..I don't think he'll ever be a 30 a season man, but he'll have a massive hand in helping a classy #9 rack up phenomenal numbers whilst contributing 15-20 himself.


Of course, if you're inclined to play four forwards, you'd better have an absolutely commanding midfield. The truth is, Man U don't. A team that has a fast counterattack off a long ball will murder them if they play 4-2-4. You're better off plucking one of Chelsea's too numerous midfield players.
What?

[prk166]

You have to look at it as a 7-10 year investment. It's obvious Fergie is trying to future proof by buying a teen sensation rather then a 20something who is already fully proven. Believe me, if we get any of the aforementioned 3 and keep Ruud and Saha we are not and will have no need to purchase another forward for at least 4yrs.


How is it obvious? Seems to me more like a bunch of rumors that the media circulates this time of year. It seems more likely to me that there won't be any new forwards or strikers brought this summer. With Ruud, Saha, Smith, Ole, and Forlan around, there isn't much of a need to bring someone else in. Unless one of them is sold, I have a hard time seeing it happen. And if someone like Ole is sold, I hope it's a proven goal scorer with experience, lets say at least 100 games in a top league.

[prk166]

With Ruud, Saha, Smith, Ole, and Forlan around,

And Bellion, too.

[Dark Savante]

Ok, this is my last lengthy reply, i wont analyze each quote, but i will address specifics..

Vicente, Luque, Joaquin (move ronaldo to left) Van der Meyde, Jorghenson and there are others that we may not know of.

To be frank, outside of Vicente and Joaquin there is no player of Man Utd standing there. Which proves my point somewhat, Joaquin and Vicente are not going to come cheap. In fact, they're both between 15-22m so grabbing one or the other is a major effort and it's more of a risk then getting Rooney. Can you be sure either could handle the rough and tumble of an EPL season? Vicente especially would get knocked about like a rag doll. He'd have none of the protection he readily gets in La Liga and he is not built to withstand hard tackles. Joaquin is another story, but he is the more expensive of the two. For the price, he is stil a bigger gamble then Rooney.


u keep saying if Ole is here next season... bloody keep him is what I say, so there is no point suggesting he might be leaving because part of our strategy w/ strikers is to have him - thats what i am assuming and i am allowed to do so as its my idea..

Fair enough. I didn't say I want him sold, I just feel in any deal to bag Rooney he could be a player plus cash consideration and Fergie will offload him if it means future proofing.


I am not saying that strikers cannot be #10's but I am saying that you do not need a #10 forward/striker on every team. for instance AC Milan perhaps the best team in the world last year played much of the year with Pippo and Sheva up front... are either of them a 10? Doubt it... so that is just proof that u can have a successful team without a number 10.

Dude, look at the composition of their midfield and then look at ours. It isn't an adequate comparison. If we had a midfield like theirs then it would be a fair assessment. But then again look how much compromise Shevchenko has put into his game since being instructed to do so. He's flexible because of his Kiev days. Ruud has always been the exact same player he isn't flexible and I think he'd find it very hard to change to accommodate Saha.


Implying Saha cannot play the withdrawn role or be a good partner for Ruud is pointless when all he has done since he came was boost the teams goal out put enormously when both he and Ruud played together... actually he will be an excellent foil for Ruud because he can flick on headers to him... 1 he is very very fast so we will see less of Ruud - oft times isolated out on the wing chasing a ball or trying to find some space. Saha is a decent crosser, but more importantly a powerfull shooter from distance with both feet something Ruud does not have allowing him to play deeper and still be effective without being in Ruud's way. We must however give the pair at least 10 games together before we can see if their partnership will work well enough...

These are totally valid points and I buy them all, but I have doubts about the ego's of the two players. Ruud looks like a sulker to me. He hasn't exhibited it at OT but if things don't go his way... I dunno. Saha is just towing the line, for now, I think his attitude may change if he continues to score at the rate he has done. He would then have a very real worth and contribution to add to the team, that's when I expect the tribulations to start. I see a clash of personalities along the road with these two. Don't ask me why.


anyway... the indvidual talent of either of them grossly outweighs the talent of all our 99 strikers in most areas except perhaps Dwight (vision) and OGS (finishing in the box -he was imo the world's best finisher)

No.

Teddy Sheringham would out pass and out head any of the current crop 9out of 10 times.

Andy Cole would create more chances for himself then any of the guys we have now(he'd miss them, but he will have created that opportunity himself).

Andy Cole general movement is untouched by any striker we have and also his natural instinct to set up a team mate is something we don't have now. Yorke's link up play surpasses Saha's as well as his vision as you stated but also his ability to set others up - not just Cole - is unmatched now. RVN would not have enhanced that team as it was based around movement and link up play. As an indivdual he'll outscore anyone from that team but as a sum of the parts of a team he would not have gotten into that 1st team.

And Saha hasn't done enough in a United shirt for you to lay claim to him having a talent that grossly outweighs those guys. Yorke and Cole ravaged a league and terrorized Europe with movement our current crop can only dream of having... one day.


Your point about a number 10 on the pitch plus Scholes makes little sense, why would Scholes be able to roam more? Keane would still be less a man than he was before, or however u put it. Most number 10's cannot tackle so they would not really help in that manner.

If you have a player that continually comes deep and has to be stopped it gives Scholes a whole lot more chances to ghost as he loves to do. Rooney occupies a defensive line and he can shoot from long range - he has to be closed down - this will cause dissarray and if a DM and CB or a Winger double team they will leave their designated position on the pitch for our wingers or Scholes to exploit. I'm sure you didnt really want me to explain that, just getting me to type more!



No, I did not see some of the balls he played to Owen... I saw maybe 3 inventive passes... but mostly I saw alot of powerful runs, with disregard in the main to other players on the team making runs and alot of careless losing of the ball... of course he was greatly appreciated because England was playing so poorly that he was often their only weapon in attack.. however true #10's would have gotten Owen a goal in 4 matches... guaranteed... he is fast, good control and good finishing... a decent number 10 would have found him Rooney rarely did so, certainly nothing to be of note as far as passes go except 1 good pass to Scholes, which was really a no brainer, but it set up a shot.

You're kidding me! He was the focal point and outlet of the team and incredibly difficult to win the ball back from because of his choice and timing of his passess.


I will say again, but if u dont believe me set up a poll and ask who will have more pressure on them Rooney at ManU or Smith... easy... Rooney, who has been compared to Pele...

You don't understand. At the stadium, yes the stadium there are bonafide Mancunians who detest Leeds and anything related to Leeds - the city in general and any of its exports lol. They will hurl abuse at Smith throughout home games and he will literally have to win them over just to have peace at his 'home ground' all the rubbish in the media is irrelevant and it will not affect a player in the way being taunted by your own fans will. If Smith has a bad spell he's going to get stick for it. Rooney will have no such thing to worry about. He's the golden boy of English football for now and whatever he does in the upcoming season, whether good or bad, will be met with 'understanding' from the English pess. That is all that matters right now, not the World press and their expectation, just the press of England. If Rooney comes to United he'll be sheltered and taught how to deal with the highs and lows. There really is no way Rooney has pressure on his shoulder next season all bases are covered for him. Had a bad season? 'he's just settling in blah, blah' Stays at Everton and has a bad season? 'We all know what he can do when he's around world class players..' goes to Chelsea and has a bad season? 'He's homesick' blah, blah. If the press is positive then he'll just have more interviews to do. It's a totla win-win for Wayne next season.


Wayne is an unbelievable player, as i have said... however i maintain that he is surplus to our needs... we have a shortage of wingers and acquiring one is vital.. if we spend our money on that Ronaldo could be used to supplement the strikers when necessary.

I think Fergie will want to see Ronaldo's ability to read the scenario he's presented with improve before he lets him run free in the middle of the pitch. I've already mentioned 6players who can play wide and 2 who will blooded next season 3 if you count Miller. What you meant to say is that we have a shortage of proven quality wingers and to that I refer you to my point about Jaquin and Vicente up top.


We survived with just Ruud and Forlan for awhile.. surely w/ Ruud, Saha, Smith and OGS with improved wingplay due to Ronaldo we can do better than in the past..

But, is surviving good enough for a team that wants its title back and has 2very serious title rivals plus a re-emerging Liverpool to contend with?


Ok... Luque is not the same quality of winger as the previous 2 mentioned, but what he lacks in the skills a traditional winger has he makes up for in finishing and long range shooting!!! in a Nedved kind of way (no... i am not saying he is as good as Nedved, in fact forget i typed it..)
OGS will be expected to do that job if he's still here. Luque isn't Man Utd standard, imo of course.

[Dark Savante]

How is it obvious? Seems to me more like a bunch of rumors that the media circulates this time of year. It seems more likely to me that there won't be any new forwards or strikers brought this summer. With Ruud, Saha, Smith, Ole, and Forlan around, there isn't much of a need to bring someone else in. Unless one of them is sold, I have a hard time seeing it happen. And if someone like Ole is sold, I hope it's a proven goal scorer with experience, lets say at least 100 games in a top league.
Gilardino, Torres and Rooney are all incredibly young. = future proofing = obvious.

I'd be amazed if Forlan was not sold. Bellion will be used as a winger. Ole may be used in a trade plus cahs deal for Rooney.

That leaves 3 forwards not 6.