Jozy Question

[strike]

Why doesn't Hull ever play him?! Why do these guys sign these contracts to get better and then ride the pine? I just don't get it. I was really looking forward to him improving himself over there and God knows Hull needs the help, yet Phil Brown doesn't ever use him! It's real upsetting. He's got such great potential and could really help them if they only used him.

[Toon³]

It could be that he's not as good as the other strikers Hull have but the more likely reason is that he's being held hostage in Hull by evil Europeans who are set on nothing but keeping the USA as a second rate footballing nation.

[strike]

the more likely reason is that he's being held hostage in Hull by evil Europeans who are set on nothing but keeping the USA as a second rate footballing nation.

Seriously, that's what I'm starting to believe.

[John K]

Same situation with Eddie 'Golden boots' Johnson, evil old Hodgson is holding the man down when clearly the next Pele is just waiting to be unleashed.

[bojackson]

I'd guess it has to do with his work ethic or the fact that he's very young.

[Toon³]

Seriously, that's what I'm starting to believe.

Don't let them know you're on to them!

I'd watch out for black helicopters and avoid oranges...they are listening devices

[Harry Boulton]

It's not that simple.

I'm sure he's a good player but if he doesn't offer what Hull need, then Brown isn't going to play him, no matter how good he is. Brown, as much as he's an imbecile with a tan far too bright for a man living in Hull, has to prioritise Hull's survival ahead of Altidores development. He could end up being a casuality of a relegation fight.

I'm sure of you took him to a better side he'd get more chances.

[strike]

It's not that simple.

I'm sure he's a good player but if he doesn't offer what Hull need, then Brown isn't going to play him, no matter how good he is. Brown, as much as he's an imbecile with a tan far too bright for a man living in Hull, has to prioritise Hull's survival ahead of Altidores development. He could end up being a casuality of a relegation fight.

I'm sure of you took him to a better side he'd get more chances.

This seems backwards to me. Firstly, Hull is terrible. Using Jozy now is how you shake things up and try something that might work. You mention that he might not be what Hull needs, but that's the exact opposite of what they said when they brought him on, "Altidore is exactly what we need up front, someone to light a fire, that's quick and ready to score for Hull".

Sending him off to a stronger team as you suggested is also a terrible idea. If he's not getting play with a bad team, how do you think he'll have a shot at time on the pitch with a good team?!

All the US guys sent abroad are being stroked off and left to wither. This is becoming a problem and no one seems to say or do anything about it. I'm just frustrated and confused. It's like we raise great players and they're quickly sent off to pasture.

Lame.

[xamaicano]

I He could end up being a casuality of a relegation fight.

I'm sure of you took him to a better side he'd get more chances.

Pretty much. For him to get playing time he has to be exceptional in a team playing for relegation. For Brown to keep his job he has keep the team up and that takes priority over developing Altidore. The reality of today's football is that only a handful of managers have the luxury of job security (really only two in English football) to nurse a young player to maturity if he isn't a instant contributor. For a player on loan to thrive in a team like Hull he needs to better than what is available at his position which Altidore is not. If he is not good enough for Villareal he should be at least good enough for Hull if he is to make the most of his loan. The problem is as a striker he needs to be able to make the most of the limited service in a poor team in a top league which he hasn't been able to do. Unfortunately strikers in bad teams need to be very clinical and efficient because opportunities are rare and at a premium. The irony of loan such as this one is that they a made for the player to develop but the player won't be able to develop if they can't make an immediate impact but if they could they probably wouldn't need to be on loan in the first place.

[ovalball]

The irony of loan such as this one is that they a made for the player to develop but the player won't be able to develop if they can't make an immediate impact but if they could they probably wouldn't need to be on loan in the first place.

Well said. Jozy is caught in a classic Catch 22.

Of course, this presumes that Jozy is not as good as what Hull is putting on the field. Given Hull's results to date, one might argue the point.

Nothin' from nothin' leaves nothin'......:)

[strike]

Exactly, you guys are assuming he's not as good as the current strikers. I'm a Hull fan, seen every game this season. You'll have to trust me here, he's just as every bit as good as any striker on Hull, if not better. He's not getting his shot and Brown has nothing to lose.

The team is not effective and can't score goals. Why not at least give him a start to see what he can do? It's ridiculous and there's no reason why he shouldn't be out there. Your theory is that a perfect team can't use him and a relegation team can't use him. That's silly. A relegation team is exactly the team that needs him. It's called risk when there's nothing to lose.

I don't know, just a real frustrated fan, sorry if I come off crazy, I'm, starting to feel that way after watching my team get squashed for poor management.

[Harry Boulton]

This seems backwards to me. Firstly, Hull is terrible. Using Jozy now is how you shake things up and try something that might work. You mention that he might not be what Hull needs, but that's the exact opposite of what they said when they brought him on, "Altidore is exactly what we need up front, someone to light a fire, that's quick and ready to score for Hull".

Sending him off to a stronger team as you suggested is also a terrible idea. If he's not getting play with a bad team, how do you think he'll have a shot at time on the pitch with a good team?!

All the US guys sent abroad are being stroked off and left to wither. This is becoming a problem and no one seems to say or do anything about it. I'm just frustrated and confused. It's like we raise great players and they're quickly sent off to pasture.

Lame.


I don't think you're seeing this as it is, just as you think it should be.

What Hull need is a striker like James Beattie or Kevin Phillips, not a rookie like Jose Altidore. They need a striker who's got experience of playing in England, who can play up on his own, who can fight for every ball and a striker who can hold the ball up and retain possession. That is how Stoke stayed up last year - not by having the next Pele on their books. Altidore has no epxerience of playing in the EPL so quite how you've come to the conclusion that Altidore is "exactly what they need" is anyone's guess. If you're going off Phil Browns statement over the summer then more fool you. I'm sure Brown was sincere in what he said but the goal posts have shifted. Hull are struggling as, as such, their style of play, game plan and priorities have changed with this.

What Hull thought they needed at the time, and what they actually need now are two very different things. They're not the side they were last year so their priorities have inevitably changed. If Brown feels that Altidore isn;'t going to contribute the right aspects to his team, then that's his shout. He knows more than me and you.


My suggestion that moving him to a better side has sound logic, if you'd stop for one minute to consider the pro's and cons. How is the lad meant to learn the ropes when the pressure is there from the word go to perform and make an instant impact at a lower league side fighting relegation? Going to a side rich in strikers would allow the manager to ease him into the game. Carling Cup games, and lower league opposition are perfect for easing young players into the English game - not relegation dog fights where enthusiasm counts for nothing and experience is priceless.

What Brown cannot afford to do is gamble on Altidore and find out the hard way that the lad isn't ready yet? Throw him into bear pit only to find out, once it's too late, that he's not quite ready for the fight? English football is hard. Very hard. Not only do you nee sound technical skill but the pace and aggression has defeated the likes of Juan Sebastien Veron, Fernando Morientes, Hernan Crespo and Andry Shevchenko - some of the biggest names in European football over the last 10 years. Players who have come here for big money carrying world class reputations and faultless career records, but have failed to come to terms with the nature of the game.

Altidore sees like a good player. Fast and strong with agression and directness, but he's young and inexperienced and Browns priorities are Hull FC, not Jose Altidore.

[ovalball]

What Brown cannot afford to do is gamble on Altidore and find out the hard way that the lad isn't ready yet? Throw him into bear pit only to find out, once it's too late, that he's not quite ready for the fight?

Harry, I understand your premise, but in terms of Hull's future, what exactly is it that Phil and Hull have to lose? I guarantee this, if Phil keeps throwing out the same 11 for the remainder of the year they are toast. At some point you have to admit that what you are doing isn't working and revamp.

We all know that "chemistry" plays a big part in every successful side. So, if you're not doing well, why not stir the pot?

I am no "America first" fan. I like to see our boys play and do well, but if they can't make a team, then they can't. In Hull's instance I just don't see how holding Jozy out accomplishes anything. Jozy may be the spark they need--or not. But Brown and Hull will never know with him sitting on the bench.

[John K]

Unless I was imagining things, Hull won the last game and the player keeping this lad out of the team scored. :confused:

[Kqql]

Why doesn't Hull ever play him?! Why do these guys sign these contracts to get better and then ride the pine? I just don't get it. I was really looking forward to him improving himself over there and God knows Hull needs the help, yet Phil Brown doesn't ever use him! It's real upsetting. He's got such great potential and could really help them if they only used him.

Jozy @ Hull -> 09/10 PL Season

0 Goal + 1 Assist / 5 Games (157 Minutes) Played
1 Start + 4 as Sub + 1 Unused Sub
.

[strike]

Jozy @ Hull -> 09/10 PL Season

0 Goal + 1 Assist / 5 Games (157 Minutes) Played
1 Start + 4 as Sub + 1 Unused Sub
.

These stats mean squat. Those minutes are divided by 5 games. Let's see anyone be effective that way. You need to find your rhythm in a match. Asking someone to score in ten minute chunks is impossible.

They need to give him an opportunity. They have not thus far, despite a terrible record and team on the pitch.

[Kqql]

Why doesn't Hull ever play him?! Why do these guys sign these contracts to get better and then ride the pine? I just don't get it. I was really looking forward to him improving himself over there and God knows Hull needs the help, yet Phil Brown doesn't ever use him! It's real upsetting. He's got such great potential and could really help them if they only used him.
Jozy @ Hull -> 09/10 PL Season

0 Goal + 1 Assist / 5 Games (157 Minutes) Played
1 Start + 4 as Sub + 1 Unused Sub
.

These stats mean squat. Those minutes are divided by 5 games. Let's see anyone be effective that way. You need to find your rhythm in a match. Asking someone to score in ten minute chunks is impossible.

They need to give him an opportunity. They have not thus far, despite a terrible record and team on the pitch.
Stats not always tell you the whole pic, but give you an insight to what's going on....

Anyway, as many have stated here when a team is fighting relegation then the first thing the coach does is try to save his Job.

The coach in this type of situation only gives the new kid on the blog (who is on a loan) few chances to shine and then the coach goes with experienced players who are getting him the points to save his job. Then the loanee is relegated to fewer and fewer minutes.

Stats back my point about ^

vs. Bolton -> On @ 59" Gets an Assist
vs. Sunderland -> On @ 63"
vs. Wolverhampton -> On @ 62"
vs. Birmingham -> Off @ 63" (first start @ PL. I believe this was his worst @ game Hull)
vs. Liverpool -> On @ 82"
vs. Wigan -> Unused Sub

.

[Footy Magoo]

Apparently Bob Bradley prefers Charlie Davies and Connor Casey over Jozy at this point. Whether it's because he feels Jozy isn't fit enough due to lack of playing time or the other two are just playing better is the question.

[Kqql]

Bob Bradley, the United States national team coach, said of Altidore: “Whenever a player moves to a different club, there are challenges. That initial challenge of earning respect, getting on the field, there’s no timetable there. He comes into our camp I think motivated, but it is a concern that players aren’t getting regular time. We’re all hopeful that because he’s talented, because Hull saw that talent, that the opportunities there will come.”

He added, “I think Jozy understands that he has to work hard and nothing will be given to him.”

There is much to work on: holding the ball, connecting more consistently with his teammates, pressuring more assertively off the ball.

-nytimes
(http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/10/sports/soccer/10soccer.html?hpw)

...

[Harry Boulton]

Harry, I understand your premise, but in terms of Hull's future, what exactly is it that Phil and Hull have to lose?


Premier League status, not to put too finer a point on it. :confused:


Personally I dislike Mr San Tropez intensely, but he will pick the team as he see's fit and it's not as if the Hull fans are clamouring for Altidore's selection.