Japanese baseball in crisis

[skipshady]

Japanese baseball clubs to merge. (http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000101&sid=ajFJI5a_SSis&refer=japan)

It was never much of a secret that Japanese baseball was in trouble, but it became more apparent than ever when two teams in the Pacific League, Orix Blue Wave (Ichiro's old team) and Kintetsu Buffaloes (Hideo Nomo's old team) announced that they will be merging because of mounting losses.

There are so many things wrong with Japanese baseball right now, it would take a term paper to go through them all. And it doesn't help that there are only 12 (going on 11) teams.

[(TxT)]

Is it possible they could merge with the Korean League?

[skipshady]

Is it possible they could merge with the Korean League?
Not likely at all.

Even if they can get past national pride and the difference in quality (fat chance for either), there is the issue of travel. Yes, travel between Korea and Japan is shorter than travelling coast-to-coast in the US, but even then, air travel will be much more expensive, considering half the teams are located in or around the two major cities of Osaka and Tokyo.

There is also the bigger issue of lost revenue. There are currently 12 teams, divided evenly into Central and Pacific Leagues. Central League is the more profitable league, mostly because of the presence of Yomiuri Giants who are sort of like the Yankees, Cowboys, the Dodgers and the Red Sox combined. Giants games draw huge crowds, other games usually don't.
If the merger between the Buffaloes and Blue Wave go through, the total will go down to 11 teams and form a single league. But at least one Central League team has objected because a combined league would mean less games vs Giants, meaning lost revenue from TV and attendance.
So a merger with the Korean League would mean even less opportunity to make money from Giants games.

Needless to say, this is turning into a huge mess.

[otterulz]

If Kaz Matsui and Jae Seo can play on the same team, SO CAN YOU! (Points the island of Japan and the Korean peninsula)

[(TxT)]

If Kaz Matsui and Jae Seo can play on the same team, SO CAN YOU! (Points the island of Japan and the Korean peninsula)


LETS GO METS. Actually early this year against the Marlins about 2,000 Koreans were at the game to cheer on Seo, who was the starter, against Hee Sop Choi of the Marlins. I watched on TV and they also cheered loudly for Matsui when he came to bat. Also they chanted the whole time when Choi and Seo did something good, it was the same chants from the the WC too. Pride isn't a problem when success is involved.

[skipshady]

If Kaz Matsui and Jae Seo can play on the same team, SO CAN YOU! (Points the island of Japan and the Korean peninsula)
Matsui's play is a clear sign that Japanese and Korean players cannot co-exist.


Okay, I kid. There have been a few, if not many Korean players in the Japanese leagues. Though with the foreign player cap, teams tend to prefer not-quite-good-enough-for-the-Majors American sluggers.

[otterulz]

LETS GO METS. Actually early this year against the Marlins about 2,000 Koreans were at the game to cheer on Seo, who was the starter, against Hee Sop Choi of the Marlins. I watched on TV and they also cheered loudly for Matsui when he came to bat. Also they chanted the whole time when Choi and Seo did something good, it was the same chants from the the WC too. Pride isn't a problem when success is involved.
Yeah I noticed that too. They kept flashing to the Mezzanine every once in a while to show a horde of Koreans rooting for Seo. And they were chanting "Dae Han Min Guk". It was a win-win situation for them as they got to see Seo pitch a good game and Choi at-bat. Problem is that that's the only time you'll see them until next time. I'm Korean too and I'm proud to see Koreans in the majors but I'm a Mets fan first before I start rooting for fellow Koreans. Ok, I said "Korean" way too many times in that last sentence.
Matsui's play is a clear sign that Japanese and Korean players cannot co-exist.


Okay, I kid. There have been a few, if not many Korean players in the Japanese leagues. Though with the foreign player cap, teams tend to prefer not-quite-good-enough-for-the-Majors American sluggers.
Heh heh. Yeah, that Matsui sure is stinkin up the joint. :D

Yeah, I don't follow either league but I know it's somewhat similar to soccer. You got the better talent in Japan with lots of Koreans playing for Japanese teams. I've seen a lot of foreigners in both leagues as well so it's kinda cool.

What's the problem with the league though? Is it because a lot of the top names are heading to the majors and losing fans or something?

[(TxT)]

Matsui's play is a clear sign that Japanese and Korean players cannot co-exist.


Okay, I kid. There have been a few, if not many Korean players in the Japanese leagues. Though with the foreign player cap, teams tend to prefer not-quite-good-enough-for-the-Majors American sluggers.


Byun K. Kim of Boston (formerly the infamous D-Backs closer who blew it when it counted) is also Korean. I remember there was a hue problem convincing him to close or be a set up guy because in Korean those are positions reserved for people who aren't good enough to start and considered a disgrace to close or set up.

Matsui is afraid of the damn bal and everytime one is hit to him he moves left or right and bobbles the ball or waits for it to hop twice causing a late throw. Reyes is better even though the ball went through his legs a few times last year.

[skipshady]

What's the problem with the league though? Is it because a lot of the top names are heading to the majors and losing fans or something?That's a big reason - viewership keeps rising for MLB games while attendance and ratings drop for Japanese baseball. And the popularity of the national soccer team is cutting into the fanbase as well.

But a fundamental problem with Japanese baseball is that it's so much about the Yomiuri Giants and the other 11 teams are there to make up numbers.
Unlike soccer clubs, they ignored the grassroots and make too little connection with the hometown. Until the 80s, only 2 out of 12 teams were located outside the two major metropolises - teams are basically side projects of major corporations and companies all want their teams near their headquarters in Tokyo or Osaka.

So you have all these cities in Japan without teams to root for, so they end up rooting for Yomiuri Giants who, conveniently enough, were owned by a media conglomerate. It's a little better now that 4 metropolitan areas are represented, but the two cities of Tokyo and Osaka are too saturated. And sure enough, the two teams that are merging are Orix Blue Wave of Kobe (just outside Osaka) and Kintetsu Buffaloes of Osaka.

And then you have two leagues, Central and Pacific, and Pacific is definitely the redheaded stepchild. Central has the two highest profile teams, Giants and Tigers (Osaka), 2 traditional regional teams, Dragons and Carp, as well as two Tokyo area teams Bay Stars and Swallows (insert joke here).

Meanwhile, Pacific lacks a marquee team, and can't depend on Giants to pad their attendance 13 times a year.

What would help is revenue sharing and a league-wide television deal, but given the gap between the haves and have-nots, I can't see the richer teams going along with it.

[(TxT)]

This is very far fectched:

Could the MLB step in and regulate the league. This would have to be a last resort though and I bet most teams would want their own Japanese farm team. The NBA is seriously considering Europe and the NFL is already there (not to the extent as it used to be) and the MLB want want to get into the foriegn market of franchises.

[skipshady]

Matsui is afraid of the damn bal and everytime one is hit to him he moves left or right and bobbles the ball or waits for it to hop twice causing a late throw.Apparently, they teach shortstops differently in Japan. In Japan, if a ball is hit to the 3rd base side of the SS, in Japan, they teach you to get in front of the ball instead of backhanding it. He also has a vision problem which didn't affect him in Japan for some reason.

[Lithium858]

Although it is highly unlikey, I think the Japanese baseball federation should get a small TV contract in the US like with FSW or something. It would be cool to watch it here for some reason.

[skipshady]

This is very far fectched:

Could the MLB step in and regulate the league. This would have to be a last resort though and I bet most teams would want their own Japanese farm team. The NBA is seriously considering Europe and the NFL is already there (not to the extent as it used to be) and the MLB want want to get into the foriegn market of franchises.
I think Major League Baseball would like this very much, and I think they'll structure the league better than the current format. Whether it would work is another matter.

[Premium Hamatachi redded]

somebody gotta fix kaz matsui. he's been worse than shinjo...

[SportBoy333]

I heard the Korean league only has like 8 teams so there not exactly thriving either. Is there that big a gap in average attendence between the Giants and the other 11 teams ?

[PsychedelicCeltic]

I heard the Korean league only has like 8 teams so there not exactly thriving either. Is there that big a gap in average attendence between the Giants and the other 11 teams ?

Yes.

The Giants sell out all their games, the rest avg like 15-20,000 (unless it's Hanshin).

The Giants are what Red Sox fans *think* Steinbrenner is. People criticized Steinbrenner for YES - the Giants are on the Japanese equivalent of NBC. The Giants are owned by the Japanese NY Times. And because the Japanese leagues had very few teams outside Osaka and Tokyo until the 80s, it's essentially a nation of Giants junkies.

[Premium Hamatachi redded]

giants and their ugly owner watanabe are the ones that japanese baseball must destroy first.

[otterulz]

somebody gotta fix kaz matsui. he's been worse than shinjo...
It's debatable. Batting wise, Shinjo was awful last season and eventually got demoted to AAA Norfolk. He swung at any breaking ball and would nail an occassional fastball. Plain and simple, he was atrocious. Kaz's avg is in the .250 area although he's behind Mike Cameron for the team lead in strikeouts, not to mention going 0-4 last night. I think he'd be better suited batting second and Reyes leading off. Defensively, in their respective positions Shinjo is way better. Then again, I'm sure playing shortstop is a lot harder than the outfield although that's just my guess. Shinjo was a great center fielder and I think was either first or second in outfield assists in 2001, his first season with the Mets. Kaz has had a rough time at short. Leading all Major League shortstops in errors, there have been a couple of excuses as to why he's been doing so poorly for a 7-time gold glove winner in Japan. First there's the natural grass which he's not used to. Then Art Howe said that it was his fault and needed to inform him about the speed of each runner so he doesn't needlessly rush plays. I'm sure he'll come around though so I'm not really worried. If anything they can always move Reyes back to short and move Kaz to second.

So is the whole league in trouble or just the two teams mentioned? Bobby Valentine, former Mets skipper, is back coaching for Chiba Lotte Marines (sp?) and even knows a little Japanese. I remember when the Mets opened the season in Tokyo against the Cubs in 2000, he spoke a little Japanese at the press conference. I also read an article in the Times about his move back and saw him next to a Bobby V. statue they made of him in his Marines outfit. Looked more like paper mache but cool nonetheless. So it seems like teams like that have a good following so I was just wondering if it's league wide or just a few teams.

[(TxT)]

somebody gotta fix kaz matsui. he's been worse than shinjo...


The thing about Matsui srtiking out (which he does often) is he looks so sad doing it. It always looks like he is trying to hard, he should only bat right-handed too. Now I liked Shinjo and he was great his first few season in the outfield with Timo Perez and Benny Agbyani (God for some no namers they did really good for thoses 3 years). But when the mets traded him to the Giants and he didn't play a lot I think his self esteem went down so when he came back to the Mets he sucked. Plus they fired Valentine who was the greatest manager in baseball at the time and I hope they fire this idiot Howe and get Valentine back!!

The thing about Japanese baseball players here are they are a lot like high-schoolers in the NBA, you dont know what your gonna get. So the MLB better be careful if the try to step in and help.

[skipshady]

So is the whole league in trouble or just the two teams mentioned?Marines get good support at home and away. Daiei Hawks draw well too, and it helps being the team farthest away from Tokyo

Most of Central League does well by comparison , except for Hiroshima, but that's probably because they haven't won in ages. The Giants are the de facto national team of Japan, and the Tigers own the Osaka-Kobe metro region. 75% of seats at Chunichi Dragons of Nagoya go to season tickets, and Yakult Swallows enjoy a cult status as the other Tokyo club, and Yokohama Bay Stars have a decent fan base despite being just 30 minutes from Tokyo.

But it's impossible to get honest attendance numbers from Japanese clubs. They've been overreporting attendance for years. TV is almost non-existant unless you're playing the Giants, and the free agency implemented in the 90's has only helped the Giants.
--
As for Matsui, you're probably right about the natural grass. 5 of 6 Pacific League teams play on the man made stuff, so he only saw grass for 10% of regular season games. And I'm sure the transition from Japan to US is harder if you're an infielder, since you have to adjust to faster pitches, harder hit balls and faster runners. Moving him to 2nd makes sense - he can still take advantage of his speed, but isn't under so much pressure to get on base.

And it would make sense to switch Reyes and Matsui on the field too. 2nd base might be a better position to let him get used to American baseball?