Extranjeros en la seleccion en general? Not RDL Approved

[LMvCP]

Es una tema que causa mucha polemica...

pero quiero ver que piensan ustedes sobre algunos extranjeros en nuestro futbol.

Uds. ya saben mi postura sobre esta tema....y saben que estoy en contra







(ADVERTENCIA: Si no saben sobre este tema, es mejor callarse y enterarse)

[LMvCP]

damn.. a couple typos in the poll..

[Various Styles]

Caballero should not be in the poll since he is no longer a foreigner in Mexico. As far as my vote goes. I choose Zinha. He is the type of player that we havent been able to get for a long time.

[LMvCP]

Pinhiero (25;1997-presente) declaro en febrero que desea sacar la nacionalidad y que le encantaria jugar con Mexico. Todavia no hace los tramites para sacar la nacionalidad y dijo que con todo el escandalo (Caballero), prefiere esperarse un tiempo.

Zinha (25;1998-presente) se acaba de hacerse Mexicano. Declaro el mes pasado que desea que lo tomen en cuenta para la seleccion

Caballero (31:1995-presente) ha jugado con la seleccion. No se ya cuento tiempo tiene pero su carrera ya esta por terminar.

Leando (24:1999-presente) no ha dicho nada sobre el tema. Pero hay rumores que desea sacar la nacionalidad.

[LMvCP]

Originally posted by Various Styles
Caballero should not be in the poll since he is no longer a foreigner in Mexico. As far as my vote goes. I choose Zinha. He is the type of player that we havent been able to get for a long time.

Its my poll so he stays.

I respect your position.. But i have one question... why now? Why werent you all over him when he got his citizenship last year. Is it because he just started to perform this season? He has not been consistant and that is a fact.. not an opinion.

[Various Styles]

Its my poll so he stays.

:confused:

I respect your position.. But i have one question... why now? Why werent you all over him when he got his citizenship last year. Is it because he just started to perform this season? He has not been consistant and that is a fact.. not an opinion.

What are you talking about ??? All i said is that Caballero is now Mexican and doesnt count as a foreigner and thats a fact not an opinion :)

[Capitan Galan]

Originally posted by Various Styles

Caballero is now Mexican and doesnt count as a foreigner and thats a fact not an opinion :)

Da Man's got a point there RDL.

[efernandez9]

caballero lives in Mexico

RDL does not!

I bet caballero is more mexican than RDL, at least lives and pays mexican taxes for the longest, can you contradict that?

[Don Boppero 3000]

Efren you must be looking for trouble.

[el mofles]

With one exception I'm inclined to say that none of them have shown enough merit or consistency in their play to displace a natural born citizen. Caballero would have been much less of a controversy had he arrived on the team a few years earlier, but by the time he arrived his best stuff had left him a long time ago. As of right now no naturalized or soon-to-be player looks like he would make a real difference on the team. If a Foreigner like 'Mohamed model:Toros Neza' or a 'Hurtado model: Celaya' comes along in the future then that's another story. It will probably be a Brazilian who went unnoticed by Sub-19 or Sub-21 selectors that becomes the next naturalized to be on the team if it ever does happen.

[LMvCP]

Originally posted by efernandez9
caballero lives in Mexico

RDL does not!

I bet caballero is more mexican than RDL, at least lives and pays mexican taxes for the longest, can you contradict that?

Did you read the warning label? I thought I said if you didnt know its best you shut your trap and get knowing

Marquez doesnt live in Mexico either. I have 2 uncles that dont live in Mexico either. I know a lot of Mexican in the US that live in the US for temporary projects (oil).. and when i say temp.. i mean 10-15 year projects.


longest? since 96 wowwwwwwww

I dont even know why this is an issue..

what? you suck up to the Admins, get the Mexico mod job and think you know Mexico now.... you are better off in the Conmebol forums.

contradicr? pshawwwwww

[LMvCP]

Originally posted by Capitan Galan


Da Man's got a point there RDL.

really... and then why all the ruckus?

If he was Mexican, there wouldnt of been any ruckus.
And we especially woulndt even talk about him.

I can see why VS is more open about this issue or any ex pat that was born and raised abroad and cut off all ties to Mexico... but I am not... this is nothing about being Xenophobic nor closeminded...The title says it all... Seleccion Nacional de Mexico.... not la Seleccion Nacional para Mexicanos Naturalizados...

[Monkeyboy2000]

Originally posted by rdl674
(ADVERTENCIA: Si no saben sobre este tema, es mejor callarse y enterarse)

Man, that would be such a cool motto to print on t-shirts.

For me, I wouldn't pick anybody on that list especially in what should now be a re-building phase for el Tri.

[LMvCP]

Originally posted by Monkeyboy2000
Man, that would be such a cool motto to print on t-shirts.

What? The warning label or my screen name?

For me, I wouldn't pick anybody on that list especially in what should now be a re-building phase for el Tri.

Its a long process... but its a start.

About that warning label... i wrote that to keep stupid post like the one that was started about that Dallas Burn player or Metro Player... they kept saying he was Tri Material without even knowing the depth we have in MExico. (i know one of the players in the MLS is a Mexican citizen... the other was not clarified... so I dont know)... but this aint about Mexican abroad..this thread is about Foreigners IN the MFL :D

[Monkeyboy2000]

Originally posted by rdl674
What? The warning label or my screen name?


You can conbine the warning label and your screen name like this -

RDL
6:74
"Si no saben sobre este tema, es mejor callarse y enterarse"

Makes it sound Biblical and relevant. :)

[Garcia]

This is like saying, naturalized citizens and not really citizens, second class citizens, if you will...

Look, if you (rdl) or anyone for that matter have a problem with globalization that is one thing, and if anyone has problems with bringing in players who know nothing of a country just hired guns to get a job finished, that is fine.

I would agree with you that the integrity and the spirit of the law might be violated. Hey, we all have a right to be nationalistic and proud. Interesting to think Mexico(ians) are worried about legal immigration! :D

If you think about it and know the process, to become a citizen of a new nation is a big step. If these people adopt a new nation where he has a chance to further their life's work, help a nation to success while maintaining certain residency requirements, no matter where they live in the off season, is just the first step.

It is up to the player to become as Mexican as possible. That means he needs for the people to grow to accept them. In the USA I am seen differently and have been treated differently simply because my name "looks funny". Heck, even some Texans became Mexican citizens and fought the USA back in the day. Sure, they might have motives but they did it.

I have a problem that with a grandparent's birth certificate a player from anywhere can get an EU passport and play in Europe. That is not cool in my book, but them's the rules, no?

I think and believe that a citizen, by birth or by naturalization, deserves every right entitled to them by law. They may need to adjust and all interpersonal interactions aside, that citizen has the right to feel as and have equal access as any citizen.

If you want to go back to the days of chivalry times and the class system determined by birth alone, you don't have to go that far. In some parts of India that still live by that rule and they treat "lower class" people badly and even kill them. Maybe only people of nobel birth should be allowed to be national team members. If that were true, we would have never seen such poor kids like Pele or Ronaldo.

I know I have mixed some issues, but I see no consistancy in your arguement, rdl.

[LMvCP]

Originally posted by Garcia
This is like saying, naturalized citizens and not really citizens, second class citizens, if you will...

Well, if thats the case, why cant Ahmed Jabal (ficticious name) run for presidency. He got his citizenship. I thought every citizen is elgible to run for Presidency (considering the 14 year residency in the actual states and age of 35). But we know that is not that case. So i guess they are also second hand citizens?

No, they are not second class citizens. But i am willing to bet that Ahmed Jabal wont ever feel the same for the US as a Joe blow (or someone that was born and raised in the US) would.

Look, if you (rdl) or anyone for that matter have a problem with globalization that is one thing, and if anyone has problems with bringing in players who know nothing of a country just hired guns to get a job finished, that is fine.

globalization? Aside from my Chemistry degree...I am currently working on my International business degree (which i finish in May).. so NO, i dont have a problem with globalization.

And no, i do see something wrong with just hiring guns to get the job done... because work that is undone today, will still have to be done tomorrow. We could bring in 23 naturalized players and win the WC...but what happens when those 23 players retire? Are we going to naturalize another 23? Why not breed them in our own backyard? We might as well cut funding at the youth level and forget about "fuerzas basicas" and the lower divisions.. Because thats the whole point. I am not against them because they are South Americans or Europeans.... its because we are not doing our job right.

I would agree with you that the integrity and the spirit of the law might be violated. Hey, we all have a right to be nationalistic and proud. Interesting to think Mexico(ians) are worried about legal immigration!

I am proud and I am very nationalistic. I love my country. It hasnt failed me, because I havent failed myself.

And not just Mexicans, Garcia, but even your kind too... or what? To you have a Villa back in Southie or what?

And I dont have a problem with the US getting stricter with immigration. Its the law. I was born with dual citizenship... buts its just a legal technicality. I respect both sides of the law... but my heart is only on one side of it.

If you think about it and know the process, to become a citizen of a new nation is a big step. If these people adopt a new nation where he has a chance to further their life's work, help a nation to success while maintaining certain residency requirements, no matter where they live in the off season, is just the first step.

and?

It is up to the player to become as Mexican as possible. That means he needs for the people to grow to accept them. In the USA I am seen differently and have been treated differently simply because my name "looks funny". Heck, even some Texans became Mexican citizens and fought the USA back in the day. Sure, they might have motives but they did it.

again... la Seleccion Nacionalde Mexico.

When it becomes "la seleccion nacional PARA Mexicanos Naturalizados.... then I may be more open to it.

I have a problem that with a grandparent's birth certificate a player from anywhere can get an EU passport and play in Europe. That is not cool in my book, but them's the rules, no?

I dont care what they do. Its thier right..but I care about mine

I think and believe that a citizen, by birth or by naturalization, deserves every right entitled to them by law.

Even the presidency?

I wouldnt make it a law... I would just make it an unwritten rule...

They may need to adjust and all interpersonal interactions aside, that citizen has the right to feel as and have equal access as any citizen.

No one is going to deny him or his children of any right.

If you want to go back to the days of chivalry times and the class system determined by birth alone, you don't have to go that far. In some parts of India that still live by that rule and they treat "lower class" people badly and even kill them.

???? you lost me Ghandi ????

This isnt about class system... this is about Mexicans on the Mexican national team. Not Naturalized Citizens on the Mexican national team.

Maybe only people of nobel birth should be allowed to be national team members.

You lost me again

If that were true, we would have never seen such poor kids like Pele or Ronaldo.

This is not about class structure.

I know I have mixed some issues, but I see no consistancy in your arguement, rdl.

consistancy.... lets see... you talked about the Texans of 1846, Ancient India, Class structure... i can see why you dont see consistancy in mine..

next up...The Mailee Massacre, the Pompeii class structure, and the vindication of womens rights. :D


I expected to talk about players and why they should or should not be there....what they could offer....

Its funny... i didnt expect to debate this with South Americans. I never thought a South American would tell me who should or should not be on MY national team.

[efernandez9]

your national team?

are you sure? you do not live there for yrs, and for waht you have said here - being at college have you around 22 or 24 yrs of age, and half of the time in USA

Identity crisis, looking to identify yourselof with some one?

[chaski]

Originally posted by rdl674
Well, if thats the case, why cant Ahmed Jabal (ficticious name) run for presidency. He got his citizenship. I thought every citizen is elgible to run for Presidency (considering the 14 year residency in the actual states and age of 35). But we know that is not that case. Because Article II, section 1 of the Constitution says so.But i am willing to bet that Ahmed Jabal wont ever feel the same for the US as a Joe blow (or someone that was born and raised in the US) would. There are many immigrants who feel more for the US than a lot of folks who were born here, many of whom take the US for granted.

[LMvCP]

Originally posted by chaski
Because Article II, section 1 of the Constitution says so.

But he is an American Citizen... why is he denied that right...

I am not trying to turn this into a politcal debate...

this is simple... The Mexican National team is for Mexicans. Not Naturalized Mexicans.

There are many immigrants who feel more for the US than a lot of folks who were born here, many of whom take the US for granted.

I was born Mexican, and I will die Mexican. Its that simple. There is no need to get creative here or technical..